What makes a $1000 scope better than a $500 scope???

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I'm responding here just to say I think this has been a great discussion. I really enjoy reading about these things, particularly as I have no personal experience with any scope above about $400. Very interesting to see the reviews, reports and thoughts here.

The one thing I will say, I have just enough time and different scopes that I have noticed the sliding scale where more money on the glass = a nicer scope to use. All of my scopes are Leupolds, and the nicest is a VX-2 3-9x33mm EFR on one of my rimfire rifles. You better believe that whichever rifle is wearing that scope is my favorite to use at any given moment.

Based on what you all have written, I better not go looking to try any nicer scopes soon.
 
cdb1 said:
The Magnus is a beautiful thing.
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Boy it is isn't it.
Looks sturdy.
To be totally honest so many of these are unfamiliar to me, it is just like all the makers there are for the AR15 I have stopped
paying attention to AR adds all together. It's like every neighbor of mine makes the AR in some version. They are all the same
basic platform but everyone is better than the other guy's. Looks like there are DOZENS of dollars to be made in AR mfg.
Been looking at top shelf scopes & aside from any copies like the AR there seem to lots of them.
I depend on real life experience from this site which is better than REVIEWS which can be -set up- or misleading.
Good job so far.
 
Walkalong said:
The best way to get better glass is to be patient and catch good sales on scopes when the makers are discontinuing one or upgrading that particular one.
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I agree picked up a Leopold vx3L 3.5 - 10x50 and bought on a layaway. I didn't have to front all of price at once. I've gotten several optics the same way like the Bushnell elite 3200, Leopold vari x II both were gifted toy son in law and cost 150 a piece.
 
ok if you want to be capable of killing a deer at around 600 yds some math is worth the time, with a slick bullet (162g eldx) at 3000 FPS out of the muzzle you will get 63” of bullet drop at 600 yds.

A deer’s vitals are around 10”, so let’s use 8” as the intended target, be conservative I’m favor of making a clean kill

Your range call and correction must be accurate to within about +/-15yds to keep the bullet in the vitals

In this case a scope that you can accurately and easily dial elevation is worth the money. It doesn’t need to be a super expensive scope to accomplish this either, but there are features that would be helpful

Either a mil reticle/mil turrets or Moa/Moa, pick your flavor

A zero stop function

14+ magnification range

Exposed elevation turret

Consider first focal plane or train yourself to check magnification before using the reticle for a hold of any type

If the weight is ok and 600 yds is a requirement https://www.eurooptic.com/nightforce-shv-5-20x56-zeroset-25-moa-moar-center-illuminated-c535.aspx
 
cdb1 said:
There are many many people who can’t say, “I was wrong”, or admit someone else has a good point if it is contradictory to their opinion. You are a class act.
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Thank you. Sometimes I think my middle name is wrong. I've spent a lifetime around guns and hunting and camping and wilderness. Compared to what's available on this forum, what I know is tiny and mostly mere collections of limited experience. More than once, I've been in a bad spot in the middle of nowhere that could have been avoided or corrected had I understood better how to use what I had.

A major advantage of a forum like this is to put out an idea or opinion that I think makes sense and maybe learn in the safety of a warm room that it wasn't nearly so shrewd as I might have imagined. Paying attention to a collective oral tradition has kept better men than I'll ever be alive.
 
z7 said:
ok if you want to be capable of killing a deer at around 600 yds some math is worth the time, with a slick bullet (162g eldx) at 3000 FPS out of the muzzle you will get 63” of bullet drop at 600 yds.

A deer’s vitals are around 10”, so let’s use 8” as the intended target, be conservative I’m favor of making a clean kill

Your range call and correction must be accurate to within about +/-15yds to keep the bullet in the vitals

In this case a scope that you can accurately and easily dial elevation is worth the money. It doesn’t need to be a super expensive scope to accomplish this either, but there are features that would be helpful

Either a mil reticle/mil turrets or Moa/Moa, pick your flavor

A zero stop function

14+ magnification range

Exposed elevation turret

Consider first focal plane or train yourself to check magnification before using the reticle for a hold of any type

If the weight is ok and 600 yds is a requirement https://www.eurooptic.com/nightforce-shv-5-20x56-zeroset-25-moa-moar-center-illuminated-c535.aspx
Click to expand...

I have always liked Shepard scopes for their ease of use at extended ranges. You still need to practice to ensure your combination works with the reticle but I have found them to be not only fast but accurate, even though they don’t have very great glass.
 
<thread veer>

I currently have a 16 1/4" shortened ER Shaw 358 Winchester barrel sitting in a Savage 110 (staggered-feed short action on long receiver) for use as my walkabout gun, with a VX5HD 2x-10x on it. It's a decent walk-about gun - just under 7lbs for the rifle itself and 8.5lbs with optic, fits me well for shooting offhand, and makes a decent sized hole. I've not had occasion to use it afield in a while, but that's predominantly because I've been playing with 25cal stuff in the last couple of years.

To keep it company, back in March I ordered a 24" magnum contour 358 Winchester tube from McGowen - it should be shipping pretty soon now, I would expect. I have a couple of donor receivers sitting aside - mostly older stagger feeds, but at least one center feed / Accutrigger variant to choose from. I have a handful of stock choices on hand; factory synthetic stock with cheek riser added, Boyds ProVarmint with adjustable comb (pretty much a bench style stock but not unsuitable for field work), or I can even drop it into a LSS chassis that I have sitting around. The chassis approach makes me giggle, so I may build it up on the center feed action just to try it out. The LSS is no heavier than the factory stock with cheek riser added, so there is that. I dunno why, but the idea of a 358 Winchester chassis gun just makes me smile - it would certainly bookend the Savage 10 BA Stealth that I rebarreled to 257 Roberts last year. :)

You can probably tell by now that the rifle fills no discernible need - it's just a fun exercise, and I like 358 Winchester.

</thread veer>

To address the OP - I can tell you without fear of contradiction that I can sit a Vortex Viper and a Vortex Razor side by side, and the price scale is easily discernible when evaluated in terms of image clarity across the color / contrast spectrum. Even if the mechanicals are equal in repeatability/robustness (which they are likely not), the optical differences are readily apparent. I may not need that difference when shooting a box of ammo from the bench in bright daylight at paper targets 100 yards away, or when shooting at a deer 50 yards away from a box stand - I get that. But I have come to appreciate that difference in optical quality when I'm shooting at targets in dappled lighting, or when spending hours at a time behind the scope, and so forth.

There's nothing wrong with paying for incremental gains in performance, if you have the ability and desire to do so. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who insists that there is no incremental gain in performance when moving from a $500 optic to a $1000 optic has probably either never actually done it themselves or has made some bad choices in how they spent that money.
 
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rbernie said:
There's nothing wrong with paying for incremental gains in performance, if you have the ability and desire to do so. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who insists that there is no incremental gain in performance when moving from a $500 optic to a $1000 optic has probably either never actually done it themselves or has made some bad choices in how they spent that money.
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Agreed.

An aside: I have two Vipers, they are not that great, I'm glad I got them on sale at around 40% off. One is a fine crosshair dot that they couldn't sell much of, not too many of us who like that reticle for varmints I guess. Put it on my HB .222 Mag.
 
Walkalong said:
An aside: I have two Vipers, they are not that great
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I bought a 2-7 and a 3-9 Viper when they first came out. I compared them to a Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9 and a Fullfield II 2-7 I had. To my eyes the glass was underwhelming so I sold them. I have nothing against Vortex and in fact admire them because say whatever you want but Vortex knows how to to market products.
 
In fairness - I have a handful of Viper HS-Ts (4x-16x and 6x-24x) mounted on various range guns, and Viper HS 2x-10x on field guns. Compared to VX3s or Monarch 3/5 or other such offerings in the same general price range - I think that the Viper stands up pretty well (more robust and repeatable than the Monarch with better reticles, better color fidelity than the VX6, much better eyebox and reticle choices than the VX3, and so forth). For a $500 optic, they're kinda my go-to 'good enough' choice. But that's all that they are - a $500 optic (regardless of how much is paid for one).

My $750 optic is the Sig Tango4, and low-end Razor's are what I have at the moment for a ~$1000 optic. I did buy one of those blem Steiner G3s linked above, so we will see how that fares against the Tango4 and Razor.
 
rbernie said:
Compared to VX3s or Monarch 3/5 or other such offerings in the same general price range - I think that the Viper stands up pretty well (more robust and repeatable than the Monarch with better reticles, better color fidelity than the VX6, much better eyebox and reticle choices than the VX3, and so forth).
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All confirmed! Better brightness than the VX3’s to boot, and more positive adjustment click detents as well.

All of that said with the VX3 and VX3i 4.5-14x50mm having been my “go-to” hunting scopes for several years.

The first Viper HSLR 6-24x I bought was for a customer rifle, but I was impressed. Think they run about $700 street, I pay a bit less, and for the money, I would buy more for varminting or longer range, non-competition rifles. The HS feature - high speed - can be a detriment, but it’s nice in some ways. The biggest issue I have is they only come in MOA/MOA. But I get it, they wanna upcharge the PST’s to be mil/mil.
 
Both my local gun shop and I have concluded that the Steiner G3 has better optical quality than the Razor HD LH. The blemish on my ‘sale’ G3 is cosmetic only; it looks like the wrench slipped when they were tightening the objective retaining ring.

For $551 shipped to my door - it’s a heck of a deal.
 
I didnt read all the replies, so, this might be a repeat....

I think it will largely depend on the shooters abilities.

For me, a 1000 dollar scope wont make much difference because I cant shoot well enough to take advantage of it.

My priciest scope is a redfield on my semi-custom 7-08 Ar-10.....I figured wirh the money I dropped on that gun, it needed a better scope.

My favorite, has never failed, scope is a fixed 4 with TV view....yes a $50 Tasco....
 
rbernie said:
Both my local gun shop and I have concluded that the Steiner G3 has better optical quality than the Razor HD LH. The blemish on my ‘sale’ G3 is cosmetic only; it looks like the wrench slipped when they were tightening the objective retaining ring.

For $551 shipped to my door - it’s a heck of a deal.
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Then that was indeed a real sweet deal. 2-10 is very versatile, I had a Nikon 2-10 years and years ago way before they became common, which is recently. Ended up giving it to a friend.

I do not know how the G3 should compare to the T5Xi 5-25x56 optically, but I know the T5 has very nice glass. It's been as low as $1533 and change shipped.
 

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Laphroaig said:
Is there something that you don't like about that scope or are there features that you would like that it doesn't have?
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Sorry about the delay, I have MIGRAINES & lots of them in sequence which causes me to be non dependable at times.
To answer your question that's a big -NO- there is nothing about the scope that I dislike, but the only feature I wish It had was
a parallax adjustment.
Your next question is why didn't I get a Leupold with that turret available. I have not answer for that except a note I have on my
bulletin board which says [ DON'T BUY ANY MORE SCOPES WITHOUT A PARALLAX TURRENT ] , that note has been on the board
over 2 years & I have not followed my own advice with 3 scopes following without the turret.
The reason for the note is that I find very few rifle scopes have a -Perfect- parallax setting at 100 yards & some get worse as they go
farther out like at 300 yards they may have as much as 6" of movement unless they are returned to mfg & worked over.
Not a lot of every day shooters notice the Xhairs movement & if they do they assume the scope is ok while it is actually not if it moves
too much. I have seen scopes others bring here to shoot with that must have the parallax set at 250 yards or 25 yards, you would have
to actually shoot the rifle with the same muscle memory as compound bow shooting in order to get the Xhairs in the same place every time.
Leupold has been reliable for good parallax most of the time.
 
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