Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by warnerwh, Nov 22, 2020.
EDIT -Hodgdon says they keep the burn rate to ±3% for the Extreme line of powders and ±5% for the IMR line. From post 10 below.
Powder manufactures can also blend powders to alter burn rates.
If the powder I purchased varied 10% from lot to lot, I'd buy as much as possible at one time of the same lot, or buy none. I use 5 grains of Bullseye for a specific load. So a 10% variation would equal loads of 4.5 to 5.5 gr. Unacceptable...
My thought as well. In reality, if there were product variations that huge, word would get out pretty quickly and reloaders that were in the know would avoid it like the plague.
Link to https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a572333.pdf Powder Lot Variations: A Case Study with H4831 – Hodgdon Extreme.. Hodgdon Extreme H4831 tested in .25-06 and .300 Winchester Magnum loads.
See post Number 8
Why i never mix 2 different lots of the same powder, different burn rates. Another reason, 1 may be under a recall.
https://shop.hodgdon.com/sites/www/files/2020-10/EXTREME RIFLE POWDERS.pdf
EXTREMERIFLEPOWDERSTHIS EXCLUSIVE LINE OF EXTRUDED POWDERS WAS DEVELOPED WITH EXTREME CONDITIONS IN MIND.They’re manufactured so you can’t tell the difference in performance from one lot to the next. And whether you’re hunting deer in the dead of winter or prairie dogs in the middle of July, you’ll get the same consistent performance, load after load. Some would say our obsession with performance is a bit extreme. We couldn’t agree more
Now if folks want to get nit picky (which they do) Hodgdon doesn't MAKE anything. It depends on what powder and where it was actually made, here, Canada or Australia.
Those plants have been doing it a long time. It's science, they and all powders are very exact. They produce "stuff" for the Military
As they say above you will NOT know the difference in lots.Just like primers, lot to lot will not make a difference.
Powder manufacturers make smokeless powder and sell it in bulk, primarily to ammunition manufacturers. These are not canister grade powders at this point like what is sold to hand loaders and the variation in the lots of powder are greater than what is found in canister grade powders. This is OK for commercial and military ammunition manufacturers because they do not load their ammo like a hand loader does. Ammunition manufacturers have their own laboratory that determines the bulk powders burn rate and pressure characteristics for each batch or barrel of powder and what charge setting to use when loading ammunition with it. Powder along with bullets, brass and primers go into a large machine and the powder charge is set by the laboratories determination. In a manufacturing plant its likely that several machines will be producing the same ammo using different charges in each machine with the same bullet weights.
The canister powder companies which may or may not manufacture power but sell to hand loaders get bulk powder from the powder manufacturers. They have their own laboratories who's purpose is to make powders for hand loaders that have a consistent or normalized burn rate and pressure characteristics to a standard set my the particular company. This is what allows hand loaders to use the same load data year after year for the same name powder. How they do this is a bit different than what ammo manufacturers do. These companies have several batches of the base bulk powder with different burn rates as characteristic of bulk powder deliveries. They then blend powders of different burn rates to "normalize" the burn rate to the companies standard and this is what they package and sell.
Yep, and every owners manual I have ever read for a new gun tells us to never shoot "reloads" in them.
Most every thing I have read in this thread is anecdotal. Only thing from a manufacturer is this...."
Hmmmmm, what to believe, a powder distributor or a random person on the internet?
The powders you have are not from one batch, they are several batches blended together by the manufacturer/distributor to get the desired burn rate for a specific lot. Any small difference between two lots of those blended powders will be lessened by blending them. Period. It will not increase or decrease the spread, only reduce it. If you have already shot 7 1/2 pounds of a 8# jug of recalled powder, will blending it in
8# of good powder make it less or more dangerous? That 8# jug that you opened a year ago and has sat half empty has broken down because of the half a jug of air in it and has changed it's burn rate more than the difference in any two lots on the store shelf. You scale with accuracy of +/- .1 gr and your powder thrower will make more difference in your batches of ammo than a difference in powder lots. For some powders, difference in ambient temperature when shooting will make more difference than the difference between two lots of modern powder.
Again, most everything here is the opinions of folks. These are mine derived from years of experience with the powders I use. I do what makes me feel comfortable and safe. I suggest others do the same.
Do your own testing, as always.
My thinking was 10% of 5 grains is .5 grains/ So 10.% less than 5.0 is 4.5 gr, and 10% more is 5.5... But the last mathematics I did seriously was in an Electronics 101 class in 1988...
I read a post saying +/- 10%.
Now.... that's a test I'd like to see.
Following that logic, and assuming the continued deterioration...or perhaps 'change' would be a better term... with powder that is 10, 20, 50 years old would be completely off the reservation as far as burn rate.
Why don’t some of y’all email powder makers and ask. I read about it years ago, but don’t remember any percentages
Shhh!!! Don't give them any ideas...
The laws they would be most interested in now would be removing our ability. It most likely fall in the explosive storage requirements ie primers. Lest I digress further
They seem to dismiss that other brand of primers and or brass and bullet may make a difference.??
Statistics, bars graphs can be published in such a way to "prove" anything
Do another test, use different rifles, primers, brass and bullet and all the numbers will be different
Separate names with a comma.