Quantcast

What really is the effective range of an AK 47/AKM?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by matchinson14, Nov 9, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,076
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    But, but, but?

    If the solder being shot at isn't shooting the rifle and under complete control of the effective range of it?

    Who or what is?

    rc
     
  2. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,625
    Location:
    East Texas
    Your question was answered definitively by the efforts of the United States Army more than 30 years ago.

    According to the Defense Intelligence Agency's Small Caliber Ammunition Identification Guide, Volume One; the AKM chembered in 7.62x39 has a "practical" range of 300 meters. It claims a "practical" range of 400 to 500 meters for the AK-74 in 5.45x39.

    One would assume from the source that these should be good, solid numbers derived from both ballistic testing and observation of "real world" use on verious battlefields around the world.

    But we all know how "assume" breaks down and what it makes of u and me.

    Because the same source lists a "practical" range of 350 meters for the 7.62x51 NATO round fired from the M-14.

    I personally have a hard time buying into the notion that the AK-74 has a 50 to 150 meter advantage in range over the M-14.

    Link to source:
    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a165896.pdf
     
  3. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,719
    Location:
    Western Missouri
    Best way to think about this is how far away can you strike from? A 7.62x39mm will still be moving with enough force to kill a couple miles away... The problem is that it has probably dropped to the ground at that point....

    I have reviewed the ballistics charts and they tell me that after 200 yards, the bullet drops rather steeply.

    Also, having shot 7.62x39mm, I have to do some serious Tennessee Elevation in order to make it hit past 300 yards, and the bullets were not very accurate in terms of hitting the same place. But, I also have never used a scope when shooting 7.62x39mm, and it's always been from a ~16" barrel.

    I would suspect that with a longer barrel and a scope, you might get it to go all the way to 500 yards. The question, atleast to me is past that, will you be able to have any accuracy?

    Basically, there is a cost in Newtonian physics to having a lot less propellant behind a .30 caliber round than you had in the older 7.62x54R round.
     
  4. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,297
    Aiming and firing at a specific target and the range at which you can do that vs. the range at which the bullet is still dangerous are two entirely different things. A person can learn to fire a gun in ways it was never designed to fire too BTW. Fire your AK like a piece of artillery and you're likely going to get far more range out of it. The optimal degree at which you should fire the round is not 45 degrees though. Your high school physics might say that's true but that would be in a vaccum. Air resistance makes the angle much lower down around 25=30 degrees.

    I've seen .22 bullets travel 400 or even 500 yards shooting at the right angle and people can actually hit a target if they know how. It isn't done by aiming down the barrel. I'm sure it would take a bit of practice to figure out the range and the angle needed to fire to get the most out of a 7.62 x 39 round. So it really all boils down to the power of the round. Not the accuracy. Not the sights. Just the power and the wind resistance,

    I hear a guy that went to the sand box coming here saying bad guys were lobbing 7.62 x 39 rounds around him from 1000 yards I believe it. I believe those rounds would have done plenty of damage if they found flesh too. Unless you have actually tried this stuff it's all guess work. So I trust the word of the people who dealt with the issue. A bullet can travel a long way and it's possible to get it fairly close to the target you want to hit. Hitting that target even once in a while is another subject. But if some bad guy was firing hundreds of rounds at me from the top of a hill 1000 yards away I'd be looking for cover or calling in an air strike if I could.
     
  5. Normandy

    Normandy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    rural SC
    Skill level is the real variable involved here, in this discussion.
    Bob Munden (rest his soul) could hit an 8" plate at 600 yards with a .44 Magnum revolver, off hand. Just imagine what he could do with a good AK47. I would want to engage a skilled shooter inside of a mile if he was shooting an AK47.
     
  6. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,773
    Location:
    Illinois`
    Keywords "Good AK/AKM"
    Most of the select fire weapons I have handled were very well used and would do well to hit an 18" circle consistently at 200 meters on semi auto and were pure bullet hoses on full auto.
    My Maadi Egyptian Sporter certainly does not improve on this but I have fired Bulgarian and Chinese milled frame guns that were 12" 400 meter shooters and some of the best Saiga stamped receiver sporter rifles are not far behind.
     
  7. Jarhead822

    Jarhead822 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Results from 200 yards with AK

    If, and it might be a big if, my attachment uploaded properly you should see a target with two holes in the bulls eye from my WASR 10 AK at 200 yards. I was using a bi-pod, not a bench rest. I have just installed and 100 yard zeroed my new Nikon Prosatff 3-9X40 with BDC which is a FANTASTIC scope and sighting system. I was shooting Tula 124 grain ammo, the cheapest I could find. As instructed by the BDC system I used the second circle down from the cross hair and this is the result.
    To all of those who love to bash the AK and the WASR 10's in particular I send my best regards :neener: I've put well over 3,000 rounds through this gun and clean it when I feel guilty. It is a rock solid performer that I would not trade for anything. At a cost of $400 I was feeling foolish for putting a $135 scope on it but I am sure glad I did.
    I would guess that 300 yards would be my maximum with this gun but I know the platform can and does produce results from greater distance, I just wouldn't count on it being consistent beyond 300 yards which is way more than it was really intended, it is a battle rifle not a sniper rifle. But at 200 yards this was darn fine results lol. Oh yeah I know I'll get some funny relpies but the results were the results.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,113
  9. goon

    goon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,250
    Thing is... the Pennsylvania rifles of yore were capable of hitting at 200 yards or even a touch further. If a flintlock made by hand in the 1700's can do that with a lead round ball, then a modern semi-auto rifle firing a pointed FMJ bullet from a chrome-lined bore at 2400 FPS can also do that.
     
  10. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,328
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
  11. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,113
    Nope, just a plain old rifle that works as it should without being smothered in high dollar lube.....
     
  12. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,773
    Location:
    Illinois`
  13. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,113
    Yes, and thicker receiver. And a magnified optic.

    Define "stock". Since the VEPR is disqualified in your mind even though it comes "stock" with the heavy barrel and rec, then does an O-Pap qualify, since it also has a thicker barrel and receiver? Or how about a rifle assembled by a specialty gunsmith from non-matching kits and an aftermarket US made receiver? Is that "stock"? Does every rifle have to be a early century WASR with a sloppy magwell and heavily canted sights with rivets jutting out both sides to be considered "stock"? Really, outside of NFA stuff, there are very few "stock" AK-47's in this country.

    Bottom line is the gun is capable of more than many here seem willing to admit to.
     
  14. hamp sandwich

    hamp sandwich Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    I've witnessed consistent hits on a man size target at over 500 yards with an AMD65. At 500, I managed to ring the 5" flapper a few times. This was with open sites. No, it's not aDMR, but I've found it does better than the internet says.
     
  15. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,328
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    5W30 is high-dollar lube?
     
  16. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    Heh, I run my fancy ARs with high end Mobil 1 synthetic. :neener: No cleaning and no malfunctions in 2000+ rounds so far. The quart bottle will probably last a decade or more.

    I like AKs as well, just the myth of the unreliable AR is way overblown.
     
  17. goon

    goon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,250
    So... the guy goes out and gets himself a decent rifle and learns to make hits at a distance and we call it a "fail" because he isn't using the cheapest over-priced Century WASR he could find?

    I'd call that a fail in and of itself.

    Buy something like a Saiga or Vepr and make hits.
     
  18. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    I wouldn't call it a fail at all. Great rifle, great shooting, great video. However, a $2k custom rifle and optic really doesn't speak to the OP's question of an AKs max effective range as the vast majority aren't $2k custom jobs with scopes.

    A typical AR could do better at less than half the price and ARs are known for being a lot more mechanically accurate than an AK.

    I don't want to start an AR vs. AK drift, that isn't the point either. AKs are solid, even a $500 WASR (or whatever they cost) should be capable of more mechanical precision than the typical shooter can exploit from field positions under stress which is what a combat max effective range is all about.
     
  19. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,773
    Location:
    Illinois`
    Which most can't. :D
     
  20. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,113
    There are guys on here who are blinded by the propaganda that "since the mil uses it, it must be the best" line. I have a buddy in the corps like that. Anytime anyone has something positive to say about the AK, you get a few guys who come in to thread crap. Sorry, not all of us think the AR is the bee's knees.

    Like this:

    "A typical AR could do better at less than half the price and ARs are known for being a lot more mechanically accurate than an AK."

    Couldn't do better at half the price. So you're $400 AR is better than a $800 VEPR, simply because you think it is more accurate. Show us all your real world testing. Oh wait, you don't have any.
     
  21. goon

    goon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,250
    I've seen a new WASR break a firing pin in soft use on a sunny day at the range with less than forty rounds through the rifle. The firing pin looked like a flat piece of stamped scrap metal. The rifle runs fine now, but it was also repaired with a true mil-spec Bulgarian part.

    I don't think a WASR is really representative of a "stock" AK either. To make that comparison, you'd also have to consider something like an Olympic to be a "stock" AR, and if you did that, a dozen guys who are shooting BCM's and Colts would rightfully set you straight.

    To get something equivalent to an actual military issue AK, you're probably looking in the $700 to $1,000 range these days if you're lucky. Then again, there is a new WASR-10 at the LGS for $699, so I have to be careful of what I say.
     
  22. mavracer

    mavracer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    4,961
    Location:
    wichita
    If somebody asks the effective range of a M4 you gonna allow somebody to use a MK12?
     
  23. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    Umm...that was a $2k AK, not a $800 VEPR...

    Using a $2k custom AK as an example of what an "AK" can do isn't really apples/apples. As far as worshiping at the altar of the AR...I've used both the AR and AK overseas and trained a whole bunch of Afghans on them. I really like AKs, didn't own a personal AR until 2008.
     
  24. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    That's an excellent analogy.
     
  25. xxjumbojimboxx

    xxjumbojimboxx Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,342
    Location:
    Southern Colorado
    my pap m92 pistol has a 400 yd setting :banghead::D:D:D
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice