What rifle for Alaska

[caribou]

I once found a clutch of arrow heads with 2 bird blunts, the broken off shaft still there, made from split .45-70 shells and s few .50-70 shells with them, that were in the ground, eroding from the bank. I’m sure who ever owned them used the bow on Birds rather than waste meats or bullets. There’s some excellent birding around here.

In Arctic Alaska, .45-70 was dethroned as king when the 30-06 came around here in the 20’s, and bolt actions became popular up this way in the late 20 s.

My wife and I use M39 Mosin’s, and have a small collection of them.

I like bolt guns, and am lucky to have room enough that I may be on the verge of an intervention, if I don’t cut back on my random target plinking sessions on Tundra chunks floating by on the river.....better than video games, more addictive too.

 

[cdb1]

I once found a clutch of arrow heads with 2 bird blunts, the broken off shaft still there, made from split .45-70 shells and s few .50-70 shells with them, that were in the ground, eroding from the bank. I’m sure who ever owned them used the bow on Birds rather than waste meats or bullets. There’s some excellent birding around here.

In Arctic Alaska, .45-70 was dethroned as king when the 30-06 came around here in the 20’s, and bolt actions became popular up this way in the late 20 s.

My wife and I use M39 Mosin’s, and have a small collection of them.

I like bolt guns, and am lucky to have room enough that I may be on the verge of an intervention, if I don’t cut back on my random target plinking sessions on Tundra chunks floating by on the river.....better than video games, more addictive too.

I stand corrected, it must have been a Mosin she was using.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I once found a clutch of arrow heads with 2 bird blunts, the broken off shaft still there, made from split .45-70 shells and s few .50-70 shells with them, that were in the ground, eroding from the bank. I’m sure who ever owned them used the bow on Birds rather than waste meats or bullets. There’s some excellent birding around here.

In Arctic Alaska, .45-70 was dethroned as king when the 30-06 came around here in the 20’s, and bolt actions became popular up this way in the late 20 s.

My wife and I use M39 Mosin’s, and have a small collection of them.

I like bolt guns, and am lucky to have room enough that I may be on the verge of an intervention, if I don’t cut back on my random target plinking sessions on Tundra chunks floating by on the river.....better than video games, more addictive too.

There something that’s been said about a man with only one rifle and knowing how to use it. Same can be said about a man with only one type of rifle and being pretty handy with it!

 

[Llama Bob]

Well...

The 9.3x62mm will throw a 286 gr. Swift A-Frame at 2400 fps without a sweat.

That bullet, sighted in at 200 yards, will not rise above 3" on the way there, have 2,500 lb-ft of energy when it gets there, and be ~ 12" low at 300 yds with 2,000 lb-ft of energy.

And, up close? That A-Frame will drop a Cape Buffalo, so it should fix a bear problem.

The 9.3 works OK as a stopping rifle, certainly for bear. As a long range crossover rifle its performance is somewhat compromised though. That load you suggested leaves about 100y on the table vs an 8mm WSM with the 220 Weldcore.

The same problem comes about with the medium cased .338s and .358s like the .338 RCM and .35 Whelen. The stopping loads aren't great at range, and if there is a high-BC bullet for western type hunting, it's not a great stopper. You can overcome this in the huge case .33s like the Nosler and Weatherby by driving a medium-BC stopping bullet fast, but it takes a LOT of case capacity and recoil and in either case a bigger rifle than the WSM or RCM.

 

[Robert]

I'd take my 375 H&H and be happy.

 

[Garandimal]

I once found a clutch of arrow heads with 2 bird blunts, the broken off shaft still there, made from split .45-70 shells and s few .50-70 shells with them, that were in the ground, eroding from the bank. I’m sure who ever owned them used the bow on Birds rather than waste meats or bullets. There’s some excellent birding around here.

In Arctic Alaska, .45-70 was dethroned as king when the 30-06 came around here in the 20’s, and bolt actions became popular up this way in the late 20 s.

My wife and I use M39 Mosin’s, and have a small collection of them.

I like bolt guns, and am lucky to have room enough that I may be on the verge of an intervention, if I don’t cut back on my random target plinking sessions on Tundra chunks floating by on the river.....better than video games, more addictive too.

What are the realistic +300 yard shots that a hunter is forced to take?




GR

 

[BigSteve57]

The ridiculousness, when reading this kind of post, is the unrealized biases.

These articles have been published by AK for decades, the 30-06 remains a favorite, as does the analogous 7RM. Taking heartier game in harsher conditions, occasionally at relatively longer ranges, and often MUCH larger and even sometimes dangerous game. But the 30-06/7RM remain a favorite, and folks are quick to chime in and support the evidence.

Then we see a thread about whitetail hunting in the lower 48, and often these same folks will label a 243win or 6.5 creed as marginal at best, and state a .30-06 is necessary.

Doesn’t make sense to me to claim the same cartridge is ideal for white tails as well as AK hunting, when the lightest of common game discussed is twice as heavy, or more, and other common game will go 3-4x as heavy, and a hell of a lot more robust than lowly lower 48 white tails. Must not be much logic applied in these selection processes for many folks.

.243 Win "marginal" and 30-06 "necessary" for whitetails? Geesh. Those contradictory mixed-up claims are due to lack of experience and the over tendency to extrapolate, IMHO.

For years the smallest to biggest thing my wife and I hunted were groundhogs to whitetails. She used a .243 and I used a 30-06. So I was always pretty sure of those rounds up to whitetails. If all I ever shot was 30-06, I might be inclined to say that 30-06 was "minimal" for deer. But I observed otherwise with the .243. But what about the 30-06? Obviously it wasn't "necessary" for whitetails, my experience taught me that. But what could these rounds do? It wasn't until I got to Africa that I realized how powerful the 180gr 30-06 really is. We took 700+ lb Zebra, 300+ lb Oryx and Red Hartebeest WITH EASE with the 30-06 out to 250 yards. So is the 30-06 "necessary" for Africa plains game" I don't know. You won't hear me going around saying it is. All I can say is it worked for me. As for the .243, I still don't know what it's truly capable of.

Anyway, I'll state categorically that .243 and 30-06 are not marginal when it comes to groundhogs.

 

[H&Hhunter]

The 9.3 works OK as a stopping rifle, certainly for bear.

You should get a hold of Phil Shoemaker and ask him his opinion on stopping rifle for big coastal brownies. You might be surprised what tells you about stopping a charging bear with a heavy rifle, up to and including a 505 Gibbs. The 9.3 is not a "stopping" rifle in the traditional African definition but like the .375 it is a deep penetrating medium rifle that has serious versatility and capability for a variety of game.

 

[Llama Bob]

"Deep penetrating" is a function of sectional density. The load described above is slightly over 0.3 SD and is a reasonably stopping load, but isn't going to penetrate more than many other stopping rifles and substantially less than some.

 

[KnightHawk]

Well I guess I have been mistaken all these years. Always thought that my old style cartridges were working. Guess I was wrong. I did not realize I needed some new wiz bang cartridge to make critters dead. Must have been wrong about the Rabbits to Moose with some Deer, Caribou, and Black Bear in the middle that I thought were dead. But I haven't hunted in a few years so maybe game is getting tougher, you know, harder to kill. Never occurred to me. No, never would have though.
Well maybe I should get a fad cartridge, you know, the ones with all the sales hype, like the WSM's or some supper laser that you get about 70 loads out of a can of powder. They must be good because the rifles they come in hold one less cartridge in the magazine. Well what do I know, I'm just from a exclusive club that uses "cartridge preferences of a bunch of toothless gomers in the interior".

 

[Slamfire]

I don't know why the 35 Whelen would not be an excellent all around rifle for Alaska, or even the lower 48. The thing tosses some pretty big bullets and is accurate enough out to 300 yards that if you can hold it straight, you can hit.

The biggest problem I had shooting group sizes with these 35 Whelen's was the flinch. After firing ten, twenty 200, 225, 250 grain bullets, I was bucking like a jackass. I am certain the 35 Whelen hits as hard as it kicks.




A group just under 7 inches is fine at 200 yards. You think your offhand is better? Have you ever shot a 200 in NRA highpower standing? How often do you shoot 200 at 200 yards standing?



I shoot tighter groups with my 30-06, but under nine inches at 300 yards is fine.





Look at the huge recoil pad on the factory rifle, and it was needed. Two hundred and fifty grain bullets kick. Shooting those things off a rest is a lot worse than shooting sitting or standing.








Those claiming a need for shooting over 300 yards need to post their groups at distance, so we can see if they can actually hit what they are aiming at.

Within 300 yards, I think the 35 Whelen is an excellent hunting cartridge and many others have stated it will take anything on this continent. I don't have penetration data, but I do believe a .35 inch through hole is better than a 6.5, 277, or 308 diameter through hole.

 

[H&Hhunter]

"Deep penetrating" is a function of sectional density. The load described above is slightly over 0.3 SD and is a reasonably stopping load, but isn't going to penetrate more than many other stopping rifles and substantially less than some.

Penetration depends on multiple factors SD being one of them. The 9.3 has a good reputation as does the .375.

A .470 NE with a 500 Gr round and an SD of over .3 does not.

 

[KnightHawk]

Slamfire,
"I don't know why the 35 Whelen would not be an excellent all around rifle for Alaska, or even the lower 48. The thing tosses some pretty big bullets and is accurate enough out to 300 yards that if you can hold it straight, you can hit."

It is. And your right on the money.

Nice rifles there. Excellent cartridge, have been comfortable with the Whelen myself. Nice shooting, certainly would get the job done within 300 yards. Except for the western states and some places in Alaska shots of over 300 are the exception..

 

[Garandimal]

I don't know why the 35 Whelen would not be an excellent all around rifle for Alaska, or even the lower 48.

Swift makes a 280 gr. .35 Cal. A-Frame w/ an SD = .312 and a BC = .388.

Push that thing along at 2,350 fps+ and you have a DG rifle.

Everything else the 250 gr. should do fine.




GR

 

[cdb1]

Swift makes a 280 gr. .35 Cal. A-Frame w/ an SD = .312 and a BC = .388.

Push that thing along at 3,500 fps+ and you have a DG rifle.

Everything else the 250 gr. should do fine.




GR

You won’t catch me shooting a 280 grain bullet at 3500 fps+.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Swift makes a 280 gr. .35 Cal. A-Frame w/ an SD = .312 and a BC = .388.

Push that thing along at 2,350 fps+ and you have a DG rifle.

Everything else the 250 gr. should do fine.




GR

Guessing you meant 2500 FPS?

 

[Garandimal]

You won’t catch me shooting a 280 grain bullet at 3500 fps+.

That would be silly.

2350 fps would be much better.






GR

 

[Buckeye63]

35 Whelen , 9.3x62 both would make great all-around cartridges... Same could be said for the 338/06 and 30-06 ..
All-around to me is a Moose ,Whitetail, caribou , & Black Bear and would work for Brown Bear and Grizzly hunting ..

Maybe a 375 H&H would be better for grizzly , but not a all-around cartridge

 

[H&Hhunter]

Swift makes a 280 gr. .35 Cal. A-Frame w/ an SD = .312 and a BC = .388.

Push that thing along at 2,350 fps+ and you have a DG rifle.

Everything else the 250 gr. should do fine.




GR

That would be silly.

2350 fps would be much better.






GR

Sounds a lot like a .350 Rigby. Or a .360 Imperial.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Every time I get the hots for a .35 Whelen I look at the 9.3x62 and think wow, that’s mo betta. Then I settle on a .338 WM instead. The 9.3 really is an improved and slightly larger bore diameter .35 Whelen for all intensive purposes though.

 

[Garandimal]

Sounds a lot like a .350 Rigby.

Believe that the .350 Rigby made it's energy w/ faster 225 gr. bullets.


Swift seems to be the only manufacturer of heavy/high SD .35 Cal. bullets. Which is pricey, but still pretty sweet.

Got a coupla boxes of 286 gr. 9.3mm A-Frames, along w/ like amount of 285 gr. Norma Oryx Bonded.




GR

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

Post # 19 by Caribou.......
I am there as well. I would assume most would be at this level or better.........
To each, his own.

 

[KnightHawk]

Woodleigh makes a 358 cal. a 275 gr @ 450 BC and a 310 gr. round nose @ 458 BC. They also make a 366 dia @ 320 gr 457 BC.
I have the 310's for my Whelen but have yet to try them. Woodleigh also makes a 240 gr with a SD of.331 and 401 BC, which is made specifically for the 30-06. Will be trying these this summer as well. I've read excellent reviews of these heavy's in the 30-06 and the Whelen.

 

[Robert]

Maybe a 375 H&H would be better for grizzly , but not a all-around cartridge

How so?

 

[Slamfire]

35 Whelen , 9.3x62 both would make great all-around cartridges... Same could be said for the 338/06 and 30-06 ..
All-around to me is a Moose ,Whitetail, caribou , & Black Bear and would work for Brown Bear and Grizzly hunting ..

Maybe a 375 H&H would be better for grizzly , but not a all-around cartridge

One advantage of the 35 Whelen is that I don't have to buy brass. I literally have five gallon buckets of once fired LC brass, from the days when I drew DCM ammunition at matches. So, I neck 30-06 cases up. I found that necked up cases had a high crack rate unless I annealed the things:



I believe accuracy improved, but I don't have objective evidence. Case life improved after annealing. I annealed in the inky shadows of the garage, holding a case in my finger tips, a blow torch on the neck, and dropping it into a pan of water before any redness was revealed. This took about three seconds. I made over annealing mistakes, where the neck tension would not hold a bullet. Live and learn.

First firing I lubed up the cases, what you see in this picture is either vasoline or hair gel, which is vasoline with a perfume.



Greasing the case, particularly the neck and shoulder, prevented case side wall stretch. Instead of the case neck grabbing the chamber, after which the case sidewalls have to stretch to allow the base to reach the bolt face, these cases simply slide to the bolt face, and the shoulders fold out. A minimum amount of grease is desirable, I have had the rare occasional shoulder dent, which is removed on the next firing. After firing I have a case which is stress free and perfectly fireformed to the chamber. Due to the slight shoulder on the 35 Whelen I size the case so that when the bolt is closed on the case, there is absolutely no forward or backward movement to the bolt, I do not bump the shoulder back to make clearance in the chamber, the case is an exact fit, just short of a crush up. I have had misfires/hangfires in the 35 Whelen and I am of the opinion that insufficient firing pin protrusion, weak mainsprings, and excessive shoulder clearance, insensitive primers were aggravating factors, along with the slight shoulder of the case.Removing the case clearance, replacing firing pins and mainsprings, using Federal primers dramatically improved ignition consistency. Federal primers are the most sensitive primers on the market, at least, that is what they were advertised as being. I do not want an insensitive mil spec primer in this application. A bud recommended chambering my custom rifle as a 35 Brown-Whelen,to have an more abrupt shoulder, and there may be something to that.

Being able to use cheap 30-06 brass is an advantage to the 35 Whelen, in my opinion.