GrandmasterB
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How about a lever action .357 Magnum?
What Rifle Should I Buy?
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Fisherman12
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Maybe. Who makes the best one of those?
GrandmasterB
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Rossi, Marlin, Winchester, Henry....
I have a Winchester 94 Trapper and it is great - 16" barrel keeps it short and handy and it will hold 9 in the mag and one in the chamber of .357mag, or 10+1 of .38 Special.
I have a Winchester 94 Trapper and it is great - 16" barrel keeps it short and handy and it will hold 9 in the mag and one in the chamber of .357mag, or 10+1 of .38 Special.
Roadking Rider
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Everytime I think of a good all around rifle. My mind automatically goes to the Lever Action 30/30 Marlin 336. It might not be my most powerful rifle like my M1 Garand, or put the amount of rounds down range in a hurry like my Mini14, or SKS , but it's just a darned fine rifle. Being realistic it will take care of anything I should come up against.
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henschman
Member
You think a 5.56 is too underpowered but you would consider something in pistol caliber!? The 5.56 puts a lot more ft./lbs. on target than a .357.
I love high powered battle rifles as much as anybody, but for the home defense role, the extreme lack of barrier penetration that the poodle shooter offers becomes an asset rather than a liability. Light grain 5.56 (and by the same virtue, 5.45x39) penetrate drywall and brick less than even a shotgun with 00 buckshot or a 9mm, due to the fact that the round is so light and is travelling so fast. It dumps energy quickly, and fragments easily. This also means that it is quite effective for anti-personnel at close range. You want a light weight round, like a 55 grain. Personally I keep mine loaded with M193.
I love high powered battle rifles as much as anybody, but for the home defense role, the extreme lack of barrier penetration that the poodle shooter offers becomes an asset rather than a liability. Light grain 5.56 (and by the same virtue, 5.45x39) penetrate drywall and brick less than even a shotgun with 00 buckshot or a 9mm, due to the fact that the round is so light and is travelling so fast. It dumps energy quickly, and fragments easily. This also means that it is quite effective for anti-personnel at close range. You want a light weight round, like a 55 grain. Personally I keep mine loaded with M193.
Do you want a rifle, or a HD weapon? sounds like you're covered in the HD category. I know everybody has their own thoughts (thank God), but rifles and HD to me, don't go together. Handguns and shotguns are HD weapons. Rifles are for outdoor purposes. however, if I had to pick a HD rifle, it'd be a carbine in a pistol round. A highpoint (not on the expensive list) is a easy choice. Most other choices go right through walls into other houses. and so do pistol rounds, but they have a lot less powder behind the bullet. And honestly, at night, do you want to fumble around with a rifle? My wife and I have revolvers for that. Point and shoot. or hell, just shoot, because nobody's gonna wait to see what you hit, they're gonna run. I know, my 2 cents. but you really have to think through what the mission is for the gun you want.
DD
While I like the idea of an AR as a home defense rifle, I don't think it should be your first option and agree with some of the other posters, in that I've ALWAYS heard that a good old fashioned 12 gauge is the best long gun for home defense. First of all, it's EXTREMELY intimidating. A sheriff once told me that he's seen intruders jump through windows and heard of them jumping from second story windows, after hearing a 12 gauge being racked...it's supposedly the most recognizable noise in the world! There are good reasons for this. Shotguns leave devastating wounds and if shot from close range, are often fatal.
I have 2 ARs...an AR-15 (Daniel Defense M4, V4, in 5.56) and an AR-10 (Christensen Arms CA-10 custom, match grade build in .308), but my 12 gauge and "The Judge" (revolver that shoots .410 shells and .45LC) are what I keep under the edge of my bed...with my AR-15 nearby. If you like the idea of an AR-15, I would stick with a 5.56 (with home defense (HD) ammo) and NEVER consider an AR-10 in a .308 or .300, due to the potential for over penetration. While this can be an issue with ANY handgun or rifle, depending on how your home is built (don't forget about your neighbors, as some rounds could go through your walls, or even your windows and straight into your neighbors home), it's less likely with a 5.56 than a .300 or .308, especially if you use light weight, HD ammo. Also, please don't consider a handgun as your only home defense option. There's an old saying..."you use your handgun to fight your way to your rifle"!
Also, if money is not an issue, I would HIGHLY recommend a Daniel Defense 5.56 and doubt anyone here would disagree with me. Even more than with handguns, there are several "levels of quality" when it comes to ARs. There are some really cheap ones. Then there are much better rifles like the S&W M&P series (like a new Chevy). Above those would be the mil-spec ARs (the same quality used by our armed forces) like Colt (like a new Cadillac Escalade), then above those would be the top of the heap brands like Daniel Defense or LaRue (like a new Mercedes). These ARs are ABOVE mil-spec, meaning they use higher quality materials, add on's and oversight techniques (ex: MPI testing) than required by the military. I only have personal experience with Daniel Defense, but would highly recommend them. The only ARs better than these, would be match grade, custom built rifles costing several thousand dollars. The great thing about the top ARs are that they are only a few hundred more than much cheaper rifles (something new buyers would be wise to learn). For example, you could get a new S&W M&P AR for $800-900. A new Colt could be had for $1100-1300 and a new Daniel Defense would cost around $1500-1700. Hope this helps.
While I like the idea of an AR as a home defense rifle, I don't think it should be your first option and agree with some of the other posters, in that I've ALWAYS heard that a good old fashioned 12 gauge is the best long gun for home defense. First of all, it's EXTREMELY intimidating. A sheriff once told me that he's seen intruders jump through windows and heard of them jumping from second story windows, after hearing a 12 gauge being racked...it's supposedly the most recognizable noise in the world! There are good reasons for this. Shotguns leave devastating wounds and if shot from close range, are often fatal.
I have 2 ARs...an AR-15 (Daniel Defense M4, V4, in 5.56) and an AR-10 (Christensen Arms CA-10 custom, match grade build in .308), but my 12 gauge and "The Judge" (revolver that shoots .410 shells and .45LC) are what I keep under the edge of my bed...with my AR-15 nearby. If you like the idea of an AR-15, I would stick with a 5.56 (with home defense (HD) ammo) and NEVER consider an AR-10 in a .308 or .300, due to the potential for over penetration. While this can be an issue with ANY handgun or rifle, depending on how your home is built (don't forget about your neighbors, as some rounds could go through your walls, or even your windows and straight into your neighbors home), it's less likely with a 5.56 than a .300 or .308, especially if you use light weight, HD ammo. Also, please don't consider a handgun as your only home defense option. There's an old saying..."you use your handgun to fight your way to your rifle"!
Also, if money is not an issue, I would HIGHLY recommend a Daniel Defense 5.56 and doubt anyone here would disagree with me. Even more than with handguns, there are several "levels of quality" when it comes to ARs. There are some really cheap ones. Then there are much better rifles like the S&W M&P series (like a new Chevy). Above those would be the mil-spec ARs (the same quality used by our armed forces) like Colt (like a new Cadillac Escalade), then above those would be the top of the heap brands like Daniel Defense or LaRue (like a new Mercedes). These ARs are ABOVE mil-spec, meaning they use higher quality materials, add on's and oversight techniques (ex: MPI testing) than required by the military. I only have personal experience with Daniel Defense, but would highly recommend them. The only ARs better than these, would be match grade, custom built rifles costing several thousand dollars. The great thing about the top ARs are that they are only a few hundred more than much cheaper rifles (something new buyers would be wise to learn). For example, you could get a new S&W M&P AR for $800-900. A new Colt could be had for $1100-1300 and a new Daniel Defense would cost around $1500-1700. Hope this helps.
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Wildcat_Charlie
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I have to disagree with the idea that there's no reason to own a SD rifle. If you lived on my farm you'd know why. First you're on your own completely. Second there are times when a person needs to defend himself and his family against multiple bad guys and some of those bad guys have long range rifles. Trust me I know this for a fact. My cousin had his house shot up on the farm from about 500 yards away on top of a hill. To even begin to think about shooting back against something like that you will need a rifle.
And there are these things called gangs roaming around too. They have invaded our farm in previous generations when bank robbers carried machine guns. They come in groups too.
When a big snow hits or an ice storm hits or a big wind hits (like just happened 6 weeks ago) you can find yourself isolated. You will be hoping you don't have any enemies that hope to settle a grudge at those times. And I thought I had one doing just that the night of the storm but it turned out to be my neighbor who moved away but happened to be home that night late. It wouldn't be the first time I was threatened from his property. We're talking a bunch of drug dealing scuzz balls who don't like anyone much unless you're a customer. They fear you if you're straight.
I've already named several incidents where a good battle carbine is a handy to have. Sometimes you need a rifle that will reach way out there and smack someone. IMO that's what separates the 7.62 x 39 based weapons from the 5.56 based weapons or better still the 5.45 based weapons.
Actually I bought an SKS way back when before AR's were affordable or readily available in my area. I haven't had a good reason to replace that weapon. I like it very much because it is super reliable, powerful enough, and has enough range for where I live. And I find AR's to be less reliable so even though an AR has far more range than an SKS I still prefer the SKS. I do have long range rifles though. I just don't think I need to be able to fire multiple rounds at that kind of distance. That is taking the fight to the bad guy and the only time you should be doing it is if they are firing at you from that extreme distance. In case they do I have a 30.06 that will reach out there pretty far. It will fire farther than I have a need to ever fire.
So yes I agree that the main tools for HD are shotguns and handguns but I do not agree that there is no need for a battle carbine that fires multiple rounds quickly. My choice is the SKS mainly because I bought one and it still works very well 20 years later. I actually have two now in fact. Backups are always a good idea. But that's not to say that an AR can't be an excellent HD weapon for someone on a remote ranch or farm. Just for example say you live on the Arizona / Mexico border. You most certainly might need a battle carbine. There are good reasons to choose various platforms. For me the SKS is excellent. Others may need the longer distance of the AR but I do have to say that an AR in a caliber like .308 can be one heavy piece of hardware. There are lots of details to consider here and one thread isn't really enough to cover all the issues.
And there are these things called gangs roaming around too. They have invaded our farm in previous generations when bank robbers carried machine guns. They come in groups too.
When a big snow hits or an ice storm hits or a big wind hits (like just happened 6 weeks ago) you can find yourself isolated. You will be hoping you don't have any enemies that hope to settle a grudge at those times. And I thought I had one doing just that the night of the storm but it turned out to be my neighbor who moved away but happened to be home that night late. It wouldn't be the first time I was threatened from his property. We're talking a bunch of drug dealing scuzz balls who don't like anyone much unless you're a customer. They fear you if you're straight.
I've already named several incidents where a good battle carbine is a handy to have. Sometimes you need a rifle that will reach way out there and smack someone. IMO that's what separates the 7.62 x 39 based weapons from the 5.56 based weapons or better still the 5.45 based weapons.
Actually I bought an SKS way back when before AR's were affordable or readily available in my area. I haven't had a good reason to replace that weapon. I like it very much because it is super reliable, powerful enough, and has enough range for where I live. And I find AR's to be less reliable so even though an AR has far more range than an SKS I still prefer the SKS. I do have long range rifles though. I just don't think I need to be able to fire multiple rounds at that kind of distance. That is taking the fight to the bad guy and the only time you should be doing it is if they are firing at you from that extreme distance. In case they do I have a 30.06 that will reach out there pretty far. It will fire farther than I have a need to ever fire.
So yes I agree that the main tools for HD are shotguns and handguns but I do not agree that there is no need for a battle carbine that fires multiple rounds quickly. My choice is the SKS mainly because I bought one and it still works very well 20 years later. I actually have two now in fact. Backups are always a good idea. But that's not to say that an AR can't be an excellent HD weapon for someone on a remote ranch or farm. Just for example say you live on the Arizona / Mexico border. You most certainly might need a battle carbine. There are good reasons to choose various platforms. For me the SKS is excellent. Others may need the longer distance of the AR but I do have to say that an AR in a caliber like .308 can be one heavy piece of hardware. There are lots of details to consider here and one thread isn't really enough to cover all the issues.
justice06rr
Member
I'm interested to why such bias?
There are plenty of other calibers and platforms available on the AR15. It doesn't necessarily have to be 5.56, or the M4 variant.
If you're deadset against the AR, then a good AK is your next best option. I have both and prefer the AR15, so no bias there.
Here is why. If you have to shoot multiple rounds quickly, the 5.56/223 is very controllable and you will stay on target much better. Not to mention accuracy is superior than the AK. Range/distance of target is another consideration. The AR excels in all of these.
On the other hand, the AK is rugged, fun to shoot, makes large holes, and the ammo is cheap.
justice06rr
Member
That is not always the case. Your weapons should always and already be loaded. Racking is not necessarily "intimidating" and it might not even be heard in from the outside the home. Making the choice based on the intimidating sound is not reasonable IMHO. Sure a shotgun is an effective HD weapon, but so is a rifle or a pistol.
stubbicatt
Member
+1 here. I remember several years ago here in the inter web there was a story about a college somewhere that peformed a mock trial before a jury on a home defense situation where the homeowner in one trial used an AR15, and in the other some lever action IIRC. The juries split in their decision.
The facts were identical, the scripted examinations of witnesses were identical. the AR15 toting homeowner was convicted, the cowboy toting homeowner acquitted. The researchers polled the mock juries and their decisions turned on which gun was used, the AR15 looked scary and deadly, and the inference they drew was that the homeowner was just waiting to kill someone.
I keep this sort of thing in mind whenever I think of a home defense sort of situation. To survive the encounter with the home invaders only to be consigned to the greybar hotel with the invader's homies as my roommates does not appeal.
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Go to Youtube and check out "TNP" the nutnfancy project. He reviews 71 rifles therein; Goes over ar vs. ak, great AKs, great ARs.
There are sooo many more great rifles on the market than just 15 years ago, it is a tough decision now.
There are sooo many more great rifles on the market than just 15 years ago, it is a tough decision now.
tubeshooter
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tubeshooter
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I own and have shot:
I have never had to test it out for HD (thank goodness), but I think all 4 will do and I could recommend.
Really, a lot of things will do. A number of rifles are flat out overkill...
Many people have gotten by just fine with the shotgun in this role for many years.
- SKS
- .357 lever
- .30-30 lever
- 12 ga. shotgun
I have never had to test it out for HD (thank goodness), but I think all 4 will do and I could recommend.
Really, a lot of things will do. A number of rifles are flat out overkill...
Many people have gotten by just fine with the shotgun in this role for many years.
jason41987
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definitely an AK or AR15.. M1As, mini-14s, SKSs will always be around.. whenever someone tries pushing for further legislation on firearms its against the AK or AR15.. so go for one of those first
the AR15 is far, far more accurate, nearly as reliable, more expandable, more customizable, and more modular than the AK
the AK for some reason i keep finding myself going back to... i dont know why, but it does seem to have a pull on me
the AR15 is far, far more accurate, nearly as reliable, more expandable, more customizable, and more modular than the AK
the AK for some reason i keep finding myself going back to... i dont know why, but it does seem to have a pull on me
meanmrmustard
Member
Meh. As modular, but not near as light. Both are compact, but AR is an easier hump if you're hoofin it.
I have an AR, AK, 12 GA pump, M1A and several other pistols/rifles. I personally am an AK guy and find myself grabbing that more frequently than any other of my guns. Its fun to shoot, just as customisable as ar and much less expensive.
In a HD situation I choose a carbine or a semi auto rifle over all. 12ga is too much recoil for a fast follow up shot and has to be pumped to reload. That can be confusing in a stressful situation. With a semi rifle/carbine you get low recoil, quick followup shots, greater accuracy. My 2 cents
In a HD situation I choose a carbine or a semi auto rifle over all. 12ga is too much recoil for a fast follow up shot and has to be pumped to reload. That can be confusing in a stressful situation. With a semi rifle/carbine you get low recoil, quick followup shots, greater accuracy. My 2 cents
wlewisiii
Member
My home defense rifle is also my deer rifle - Winchester 94 .30-30 loaded with 170 gr JSP. Put a Williams peep sight on it instead of optics and you'll be set.
snake284
Member
I've heard this silly argument about the 5.56 since the 60s. I don't worry about it. Lots of people bad mouth it, but not many would stand out there 300-400 yards and let me take a few shots at them with it. What? No takers? LOL!!!
Seriously, the 5.56 against human targets is very potent. If you're comparing it to the Commie 7.62x39, it comes down to velocity v. bullet weight with Ballisitics coefficient thrown in for good measure. They're both looked at by some as underpowered, but when used as designed they are both up for the purpose as Vietnam will testify. ARs and Aks are what they are. Lots of people own them and are more than satisfied with them. If you want an elephant gun go by a 458 Lott, but for small to medium game and just fun shooting, they are hard to beat. Also ammo for both is cheap.
justice06rr
Member
^ Exactly. Some people think that it only takes one shot and a BG will magically stop attacking you, or the rack of a shotgun will make them run away like little girls.
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