What Self Defense Rifle?

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From my experience as a rifle instructor you would want something that is ergonomic and easy to handle under stress. Small motor skills deteriorate under stress so you want something that is easy to manipulate and whose controls are easy to find and use.

The Ar15 is very ergonomic and the controls (safety/mag release) are easy to use except for the charging handle. It is light weight and easy to load and reload under pressure. The mags slide right in. The mag release and safety are in a good location.

The AK is less ergonomic. The safety lever while large and easy to manipulate is in a bad location. The "rock the mag" in loading and reloading is difficult under stress unless you practice a lot. It is the number one operator error that I see on the line.

The Mini 14/30 is a pretty good rifle but it too has the "rock the mag" loading feature. Otherwise the controls are good. The mag load and reload is a weakness IMO.

M1 Carbine, good controls, easy to load and reload, the mags slide right in without having to be rocked into place. Depending whether you have the push button safety or flip lever safety depends on how effective you might be. Overall it is very ergonomic/user friendly.

The SKS is a pretty good choice though it is heavy and somewhat cumbersome in a house. Controls are fairly ergonomic. Loading the mag with stripper clips or by hand takes some skill and is much more difficult under stress.

Personally I would pick the AR15 as the easiest rifle to use. On the other hand, shooting rifle inside is not fun so I don't see any advantage of a rifle over a pistol inside a house.
 
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I agree with many of the previous posters, I think an AR, AK or a lever action would all be good choices. I notice that for the lever action ther .30-30 was recommended, but you could also consider one in .357mag, .44mag or even .45LC pistol calibers, too. ALl three should be excellent performers in a carbine lenght barrel with modern JHPs.

Pistol caliber semiauto carbines look good on paper, but I've heard a lot of worrying things about their reliability. If you can find a reliable one, that's another option.

If you have to use it, you won't mind the fact that the police destroyed your 100-200 dollar rifle by letting it rust while it's being held in an evidence locker.
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Its your decision. Personally, I'd be more concerned with having the best and most appropriate gun in my hands when there is trouble than worrying about some hypotetical damage after the fact. If you ever have to shoot someone, believe me you will have more important things to worry about. I'd rather kiss a $600-800 gun good bye, knowing it saved my life or the life of a family member, that risk fumbling with a cheap bolt action in a life-or-death SD situation. YMMV.
 
My home defense rifle is my Brothers SKS. I'm holding on to it for his girls (he died a few years ago) as soon as one of them asks she gets the SKS. In the mean time It's a memory I can hang on to.

Now, the self defense rifle could double as a deer / general purpose rifle; but, I have a Marlin 336 in 30 30 to fill that role. Similarly, I have a bolt action 22Mag that would also serve as a light utility rifle. It would serve as a varmint / small game gun
 
The 7.62x39mm, with quality bullets, is considerably more effective than .45 ACP, and less likely to dramatically overpenetrate building materials, as well. But the .223 with quality ammunition is also considerably more effective than a .45 ACP, even from a carbine barrel.

The .30-30 is a little more powerful than a 7.62x39mm, as typically loaded, BUT unless you load your own ammunition, you will not be able to get low-penetration rounds as you can with the x39mm. IOW, all commonly available .30-30 rounds will tend to overpenetrate, even if you correctly hit your attacker.

The 7.62x54mm is not a serious home defense round. The similar-power-level .308, on the other hand, is because of the availability of quality platforms and low-penetration ammo. The BM 59 is a battle rifle that weighs over 9.5 lbs. A Moisin-Nagant rifle would be a worst choice for home defense, but other than that, you'd be hard pressed to find one.
 
Another choice for me is any version of the Mac 10. 32 rounds of .45 ACP ball ammo. Light, fairly accurate at close range. Full auto may also be an option.
Don't know your situation. Thompson's aren't bad either, but a bit heavy.
 
With two grand to spend I think you should see if you can find someone in your area who will let you shoot their FAL and see how it tickles your fancy. Reach out online and talk to the FAL folks in your neck of the woods, there are plenty of them in LA.

You should be able to find one in whatever flavor you like (they come in many) and still have enough left in the budget to get into reloading 308.
Mil. Surp. 7.62 is not as inexpensive as it used to be but it's still out there.

I got into reloading so I can shoot more and also to work up hunting loads.
I like the 165grain Sierra Game Kings, very accurate and very effective at dropping medium sized game it it's tracks.

I really get a lot of bang for my buck with the rifle. I can hunt with them, defend my castle with them, tear up cars and block walls for recreational shooting and they are very reliable.

They are also addictive and you may find that you end up buying more than just one. It's also pretty easy to build your own and that's when you know you're in trouble :neener: I've built five soo far and actually have plans for two more. You've been warned...

Oh, and you can also get side tracked into what sort of scope you want to put on there. Almost forgot about that.
 
With two grand to spend I think you should see if you can find someone in your area who will let you shoot their FAL and see how it tickles your fancy. Reach out online and talk to the FAL folks in your neck of the woods, there are plenty of them in LA.

You should be able to find one in whatever flavor you like (they come in many) and still have enough left in the budget to get into reloading 308.
Mil. Surp. 7.62 is not as inexpensive as it used to be but it's still out there.

I got into reloading so I can shoot more and also to work up hunting loads.
I like the 165grain Sierra Game Kings, very accurate and very effective at dropping medium sized game it it's tracks.

I really get a lot of bang for my buck with the rifle. I can hunt with them, defend my castle with them, tear up cars and block walls for recreational shooting and they are very reliable.

They are also addictive and you may find that you end up buying more than just one. It's also pretty easy to build your own and that's when you know you're in trouble I've built five soo far and actually have plans for two more. You've been warned...

Oh, and you can also get side tracked into what sort of scope you want to put on there. Almost forgot about that.
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Would .308 be a viable home defense option? It's not too... excessive?
 
A few years ago I would have picked a shotgun over a carbine every time.

Fact is I'm shooting my AR a lot more than my shotgun these days and my confidence and competence is better with a carbine at present.

You can get a good AR for less than $800.
 
Quote:
The 7.62x39mm, with quality bullets, is considerably more effective than .45 ACP

Can you show me any information on this?
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Louisianna, I've read this entire post and someone finally got around to answering one of the questions you'd been asking from the start. There is plenty of information on the net that backs up his assertion. Some of it is listed above... the significantly greater energy transfer represents the answer to your question. You may have a hard time finding a comparison between the 7.62X39 and .45 because many people see it as axiomatic.

Now anecdotal experience. I shoot an empty large peanut can with a 45 and it bounces around a bit. I have shot a can with an AK and several times watched the offending can fly 30+feet into the air. And I'm not exagerating, it may have been closer to 40 ft. And this has happened many times. There's no question that an AK has considerably more destructive capacity than a 45.

And as for the .308, it could be loaded light enough to decrease the likelihood of super-penetration. But as someone before me asked, why would you want to?
 
JShirley said:
The 7.62x54mm is not a serious home defense round. The similar-power-level .308, on the other hand, is because of the availability of quality platforms and low-penetration ammo. The BM 59 is a battle rifle that weighs over 9.5 lbs. A Moisin-Nagant rifle would be a worst choice for home defense, but other than that, you'd be hard pressed to find one.
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I dunno, John. What if the home invader is riding on horse back down your hall? Wouldn't it be prudent to have a 9lb piece of wood with a 14" spike?:neener:

I really enjoy my 91/30, but yeah it's a fun gun and not a serious home defense rifle.

If you would have asked me a couple of years ago I would have never thought I would have picked the AR-15. I always thought of myself as more of a lever or AK guy. However, once I got my Stag 2L...oh my. Happiness is a paper target full of .223 caliber holes right where I willed them.

Would I go on a moose hunt with it? No. Could I take a deer with it in a pinch, probably. Do I think I could defend my home and life with it? No doubt about it. I keep 5 magazines loaded. If I need more than that, then I would already be dead.

That said, I'm a shotgun guy. A pump 12 is my weapon of choice. OP isn't a huge issue as I would be firing away from the living quarters in my house and if it DID happen to make it through the kitchen and into my neighbors home, the floor plans are mirrored meaning that it would have to travel all the way through her garage and kitchen before it even got to the first bedroom.
 
LouisianaGunner12 said:
Would .308 be a viable home defense option? It's not too... excessive?
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I have been going through much of the same decision process you are going through (still not completed my journey, since I am still in the market for a .308).

So, for home defense, I will go with my AR15 chambered in .223/5.56. Purely as a backup, I will use one of my handguns (now 9mm, later I will get a .45ACP, probably Glock 36).

If I expect the bad guy(s) to come in with body armor (or need to shoot them or their truck far away), I will bring out the semi-auto .308 (I am still finalizing which .308).

(In the particular situation, if I am worried about over penetration, I might just go with lighter weight .223 HPBT, instead of the .308.)

Notice that I have not even listed a shotgun yet. That will be last on my list. It is not necessarily a hard and fast rule that the shotgun is the perfect home defense weapon, so you are not alone in that.
 
I own and like ARs (kinda expensive), AKs (no real complaints), SKS-D/Ms (fun but kinda heavy, and nowhere near as cheap as they used to be)...

That said, for a light, dependable, utility/truck/tractor-cab/home quick-grab rifle, I've gravitated to Marlin 336s and Mini-14s for some reason.
 
" LouisianaGunner12
What Self Defense Rifle?
I know most say use a shotgun for home defense, but I don't care for them.

I want a rifle/carbine that I can use as my "go to" self defense rifle. It'll be for home defense and truck gun, may use it to take deer or such if the occasion calls for it. It should also be suitable for any catastrophes that some call "SHTF." But mainly it's a home defense, truck defense, hiking defense rifle. Preferably semi auto, though I'd consider lever action if it's plainly the best choice.

What would be something good for this? I want it to be in a caliber that's really known and proven to stop a determined aggressor who may be on some substance. (We have a lot of that here.)"

I will go with you not living in a boxed together apartment or up close housing development and that a rifle is appropriate.

Shot guns and pistols are not a discussion option and greater energies than the .45ACP is desired. We can work with these parameters.

I saw the SKS and civilian version of the AK listed. Where I have a personal problem with them, they could meet your needs.

I would opt for an AR with two uppers. One being your fall back for SHTF in .223/5.56. And the second being in .300 BlackOut for your normal daily business needs. Both with 16 inch barrels and hard sights. Add whatever optics you like later.

The .223/5.56 loading would serve you well. I think the .300 BlackOut could/would serve a little better. Its only draw back being the availability of loaded ammunition. In a SHTF occurrence, the second upper would come into play. For day to day needs, MidwayUSA currently lists some 17 different loadings running from just under $11 a box of 20 up.
Hopefully you are a re-loader and your needs become what and when you want to load. Only a matter of cutting down and forming .223/5.56 brass.

I feel that muzzle blast is a plus when deterring a home invasion. Just like the sound of racking a pump shotgun. I also detest the idea of having to jump through paper hoops and paying fees to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights. So 'suppressors' and 'SBR' are not in the running for me, you may well desire to go that route.

I don't want to get into any arguments about energies or the like. Think of it like this: the .300 BlackOut is near the same as the 30-30 only in an autoloader that takes 30 round mags. Uses all the same everything as the normal/little .223/5.56 (weapon wise less the barrel).

This is not to say the a lever action in 30-30 could not do as well, but you are the one that stated you preferred a semi auto.

You will have to check your local gun emporium to determine what ammunitions are common in your area, if this is a concern.
 
Louisianna, I've read this entire post and someone finally got around to answering one of the questions you'd been asking from the start. There is plenty of information on the net that backs up his assertion. Some of it is listed above... the significantly greater energy transfer represents the answer to your question. You may have a hard time finding a comparison between the 7.62X39 and .45 because many people see it as axiomatic.

Now anecdotal experience. I shoot an empty large peanut can with a 45 and it bounces around a bit. I have shot a can with an AK and several times watched the offending can fly 30+feet into the air. And I'm not exagerating, it may have been closer to 40 ft. And this has happened many times. There's no question that an AK has considerably more destructive capacity than a 45.

And as for the .308, it could be loaded light enough to decrease the likelihood of super-penetration. But as someone before me asked, why would you want to?
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Thank you, that's a good answer.
 
Statistically, at least in my part of Louisiana, home invasions are frequently by criminals on meth, crack, heroin or pcp. These drugs can arguably increase the amount of damage someone can take from a gunshot. I know an old man who lives in a bad neighborhood, his home was invaded, and his assailant was rather large and very intoxicated on PCP. It took five shots of .38 Special to bring him down, and the old man had to go to the hospital for deep cuts.

I want to avoid such a fate. Although I don't live in an especially bad neighborhood, in the event that a large man on PCP breaks into my house and charges me, I really want him to go down with the first shot. Of course, I'll keep shooting until I'm sure he's down, but for my safety I want a reasonable rifle/carbine cartridge that will take him down as fast as possible. I understand that 12 gauge shines in this, but I really would like a carbine of some sort.
 
Ya know, if you do go with an FAL carbine you'll also have a great hog rifle too.

Just saying...
 
LouisianaGunner12 said:
Statistically, at least in my part of Louisiana, home invasions are frequently by criminals on meth, crack, heroin or pcp. These drugs can arguably increase the amount of damage someone can take from a gunshot. I know an old man who lives in a bad neighborhood, his home was invaded, and his assailant was rather large and very intoxicated on PCP. It took five shots of .38 Special to bring him down, and the old man had to go to the hospital for deep cuts.

I want to avoid such a fate. Although I don't live in an especially bad neighborhood, in the event that a large man on PCP breaks into my house and charges me, I really want him to go down with the first shot. Of course, I'll keep shooting until I'm sure he's down, but for my safety I want a reasonable rifle/carbine cartridge that will take him down as fast as possible. I understand that 12 gauge shines in this, but I really would like a carbine of some sort.
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If THAT is your scenario, and I were in your shoes, and I recall you have .45 handguns, I would get a carbine chambered in .45 ACP using exactly the same magazines as your handgun, and use the hottest largest load possible in .45 ACP with the carbine, with red dot sights. Or get a handgun/carbine combo that uses interchangeable magazines if your existing handgun magazines don't match with any carbine.
 
If THAT is your scenario, and I were in your shoes, and I recall you have .45 handguns, I would get a carbine chambered in .45 ACP using exactly the same magazines as your handgun, and use the hottest largest load possible in .45 ACP with the carbine, with red dot sights. Or get a handgun/carbine combo that uses interchangeable magazines if your existing handgun magazines don't match with any carbine.
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So you don't think 7.62x39 is a good manstopper?
 
It is simply based on your need to shoot an unvested criminal, and reduction of confusion in a state of emergency (one caliber, both guns, one magazine).
 
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