What should really be done about gun violence in the US?

What should really be done about gun violence in the US?

  • A much stronger focus and commitment ($$$) in dealing with mental health.

    Votes: 116 39.2%
  • Much harsher and swifter punishment for the convicted.

    Votes: 114 38.5%
  • Increased licensing for carrying of concealed weapons by the law-abiding.

    Votes: 23 7.8%
  • Limits on violence in TV, motion picture and computer gaming.

    Votes: 14 4.7%
  • Holding parents responsible for the actions of their minor children.

    Votes: 14 4.7%
  • Additional gun control laws.

    Votes: 5 1.7%
  • US Senate hearings on gun-related violence.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • An IRS investigation into the NRA.

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • President Obama naming a "Gun Control Czar."

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Increased federal support and funding for anti-gun organizations.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Higher federal taxes on firearms and/or ammo.

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Increased use of inflammatory terms like "assault weapons."

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Update the label "gun control" with "gun safety."

    Votes: 4 1.4%

  • Total voters
    296
  • Poll closed .
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I do not think there is any real answer that any government can impose. that is the real problem.

We have just about reached the limits of the "nanny state" when it comes to guns. Yet the cry-babies keep whining for more governmental restrictions.

Look at Europe. Despite generally draconian gun laws, there's a thriving gun underground. There are also instances of mass shootings such as the one in Norway at the youth camp, and the recent shooting spree at the Jewish museum in Belgium. Yet these don't seem to get as much publicity as similar incidents in the U.S. Could that be because there's no legislative agenda in Europe?

Worldwide, the illegal arms trade comes second after the illegal drug trade. Where there's a demand, a supply will always be found.
 
So, for the 18 year old kid who sells a little weed to get by (which, lawful or not, is a very common occupation in many places to the exclusion of legitimate work) and bought a .38 snub from a friend because he is scared to live alone in his housing project...can get anything from an exception to 20 years based on his courtroom act and the judge's mood/bias? Seems a bit arbitrary, to me.

It is arbitrary, but I can't think of a better solution. I know a guy who recently bought an older handgun from a co-worker. I asked my friend where he did the FFL transfer. He said, "Huh? I just bought it." This, from one of the nicest, most law-abiding people I know.

Indiana doesn't require NICS checks of FFL sales? Or are you seriously advocating universal checks "but only in a few key places?" Because that's how they sold the border-state multi-handgun-sale reporting rules, and now they're exporting it to the rest of the USA. The "river of guns" stems from demand, and there's not a whole lot laws can do to stop that (the same demand being paid for by illicit narcotics, after all )

I'm not talking about FFL sales. I'm talking about private party sales, which in Indiana don't require an NICS check, or even a record of sale. Mandatory background checks and records of sale in states with lax laws would do far more to keep guns off of the street and reduce gun violence than most proposed legislation.



So the shockingly high re-offense rate is only half, making it merely frighteningly high? I also think there's a world of difference between the inmate who chooses to better himself while inside, vs. one compelled to play at bettering his position. Either way, when these guys are released, they still often find the same choice between illicit money and law-abiding destitution which landed them in prison in the first place.

According to one study, the three-year reincarceration rate for prisoners who didn't complete education courses was 43.3% The rate for prisoners who got a college degree was 30.4%. That's still not an ideal reincarceration rate, but it's reality and we should deal with pragmatically.

By educating prisoners, everybody wins: Taxpayers save $4-$5 for every $1 spent on prison education. Prisons become less crowded with re-offenders. And the newly freed inmates are better prepared to be useful in today's economy and less likely to fall back into a life of crime when presented with that choice you mention.

That's a surprisingly thorough composite of like every recent news/anti-group caricature of the NRA & gun culture; bravo. Forgot the part about our token black guy, Colion Noir, though . Never mind the fact that the NRA is basically the group that held off UBC's last year (or did you support Manchin-Toomey?) and are head and shoulders more organized and, dare I say, professional about defending/promoting our rights in the government and court systems.

I'll never question the NRA's political power nor their organizational skills. But their tactics, however effective, turn off some people to guns, reinforce old stereotypes, and create long-term strategic problem for the gun owning community.

I honestly don't know what the deal is with the whole 'guns being racist' schtick, because it makes no sense whatsoever seeing as there are very few barriers to minorities getting involved anymore.... If you equate NRA membership with racism, you need some serious education from non MAIG sources. You also need a history lesson.

I think that you're confusing the views that I'm presenting with my own views—those are worlds apart. Also, I don't think that people equate the NRA with racism, but rather with a militant brand of lunacy, with the same mindset as the Open Carry Texas folks. The NRA has an image problem and it trickles down to gun owners.

In any case, if we look at the gun rights effort as a political and cultural struggle, battling anti-gun legislation and supporting pro-gun legislation is an important component, but it's not the only component. The end game should be to change Americans' attitudes toward guns, and I don't see much organized energy directed at that goal.

(Thanks for the reply, BTW. I've been a longtime lurker here who just began posting this week).
 
I lost interest at post # 50. NONE OF THE ABOVE. Relax all firearms control laws. Stop the media from sensationalizing mass murders of any type. Bad news sells but at what price? Stop the teaching in school that we all deserve to get the same thing without putting forth any effort (everyone wins/there are no loosers). Not letting anyone reproduce without permission as one post suggests is a joke. We as a society reward those that reproduce unchecked presently. The mantra is "It's for the children" when talking about gun control or any other social reform is just plain STUPID. They (the parents) need to PROTECT the children not expect "somebody" to do it for them.

Off the soap box.:banghead:
 
6. Defund the NRA. Letting the NRA represent gun owners is like making the John Birch Society the face of modern conservatism. Granted, the NRA has enormous clout on Capitol Hill, but in exchange, we're seeing the Balkanization of gun owners. Increasingly, non-gun-owning Americans, even those are aren't anti-gun, imagine us as a cross between George Zimmerman and Yosemite Sam. Some elements of the gun community are reinforcing that stereotypes (Open Carry Texas, every Wayn LaPierre TV appearance). The gun world needs a new leader and image campaign that properly and effectively frames gun ownership and shooting as a positive thing that Americans of all races, religions, and political persuasion take part in. Because right now, that is definitely what most people think about when they think of guns. And when some folks learn that I'm a gun owner, they're pretty ambivalent about the whole thing, but then they ask "Are you in the NRA, too?" Because that would indicate something else entirely


This betrays complete ignorance of the political realities in American gun politics.

Pizzapinochle, is that you? :)

Larry
 
This betrays complete ignorance of the political realities in American gun politics.

Pizzapinochle, is that you? :)

You may be right,DT. This is as pitiful as its gets. :scrutiny: Look out,Indiana! :rolleyes:

I'm not talking about FFL sales. I'm talking about private party sales, which in Indiana don't require an NICS check, or even a record of sale. Mandatory background checks and records of sale in states with lax laws would do far more to keep guns off of the street and reduce gun violence than most proposed legislation.

This tells us all we need to know.
 
As much as I would like to see an increase in the mentally ill being taken care of (I work in a hospital and know that will never happen). The only viable option is to arm the law abiding amongst us.
 
New Orleans, Detroit,St Louis,Baltimore,DC ,all with their incredible 57 to 33 murders per 100,000 population. And UBC's will be of any use with a criminal element that respects and obeys NO laws? :rolleyes:

We need a reduction to NO gun control laws ,not this asinine increased intervention against the vast majority of Americans, of all colors and creeds, which restrict and hamper the law abiding, and do nothing to stop or even slow down, your career recidivist criminals.

Is that so hard to understand? :scrutiny:
 
If you aren't going to televise every car accident that happens, why do it with shootings? This was always the way it was, only considerably less now, but it wasn't on tv when we were kids, and no internet. Now people take their news with them, 24/7. which makes it look like a much larger footprint that it really is.
You can make anything look bigger than it needs to be now, with a few people posting in a few key spots. Twitter, facebook etc.
 
Maybe this has been covered before, but...I don't know what "Gun Violence" is, I only know what violence is.

The problem, more correctly stated, is what can be done about violence in the US.

To state this any other way does not get anyone to any rational conclusions.

Violence is a problem that has been with us since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden...it will always be a problem as long as people inhabit the earth.

The means used to accomplish violent acts have nothing to do with the underlying problem, which is violence. Why do men commit violent acts? How can this propensity towards violence be curbed? These are the right questions.

Ultimately, this problem will always be with us, so good men need to have the means to level the playing field and protect their life, that of their loved ones and their personal property from those in our society who would callously take them.

That is the only answer.
 
Wow, where do you even begin with this one! I don’t believe there is any one answer to the question. If it was that simple, we would have fixed the problem already, I suspect. The answer can be speculatively tied to a great number of cultural changes over the last several decades. The guns have always been here, so why the sudden, dramatic increase in shootings? Some of the top reasons(in my humble opinion only), include the following:

1)Most families these days require both parents to work to make ends meet, where once upon a time, Dad went to work, and Mom stayed home and looked after things around the house, including what the kids where getting up to. When kids are left to their own devices, for too long, there is an increased chance of them getting into trouble.

2)Break down of the family unit. More and more parents seem to be separating/divorcing these days, and in a lot of cases bitter feelings between the estranged parents turns into trying to win the children’s favour and undermining the other parents authority. This leads to children playing one parent against the other, and instead of cooperating to raise a decent, respectful child, it ends up being just the opposite.

3)An increase of drug trafficking, drug gangs, and drug use. I would venture to take an educated guess that 80%+ of the shooting are in one way, or another, related to drugs, be it drug turf wars, drug deals, robbery for drugs and money to buy drugs.

4)Desensitisation of violence, and crime to children in modern video games, television, and movies, and in some cases, even glorifying it. Some examples that come to mind are video games such are Grand Theft Auto, which encourage an glorify crime, drugs, and sex. Television shows like Breaking Bad, although a phenomenal hit, is in essence glorifying making and dealing drugs.

5)Children being given too many rights, and choices, and also the lack of being able to discipline them. I don’t advocate in any way, shape, or form, child abuse, but I do believe firmly in the occasional/reasonable sore back side. These days it is frowned upon to even touch your child, regardless of what they have done. Here in Australia, where I have lived for the last six years, the children are actually taught in school, from the time they start, that if their parents lay a hand on them, to call 000, which is the equivalent here to 911. I personally know teachers bot here, and back in the U.S., and they have all stated that these days, students can, and do get away with swearing at the teachers, misbehaving, and there is NOTHING they can do about it. In my day, if that would have happened, I would have been hauled to the principal, picked up by my parents, I would not have been able to sit for a week from a sore back side, and I would have been made to write an apology note. Today, no one seems to care.

6)No firearms safety education, formally, or informally for the majority children. Before everyone gets up in arms saying they teach their children respect for guns, what I really mean is that there seems to be more of a swing in firearms ownership these days, compared to even 30 years ago. Once upon a time the majority of gun owners in this country were either hunters, or sport shooters. Many belonging to gun clubs. They was more gun safety and etiquette taught both formally, and informally. This was passed down, and taught to their children as well, and I suspect 95% of the people on this forum probably belong to this category. Today, the majority of gun owners are just that…. Gun owners. They don’t hunt, or shoot for competition, they simply went down to the local fire arms store, purchased a gun, and probably almost never, if ever, practice with it. They hide the gun in the closet or sock drawer, assuming the kids will never find it, and these are the people that don’t teach or promote gun safety or etiquette to their children, and when their kids do find the gun, they have no clue. You hear about these sorts of stories all too often these days, young children who find a gun under a bed or in a drawer, and end up shooting themselves, or someone else.

What used to be the corner bar fight on a Friday night, once ended in a black eye, now the mentality seems to be to pull out a gun. You hear the same stories with road rage as well. I don’t know what the answer is, or how to even begin to tackle these sorts of problems. I do know, If we don’t do something to change the way things are going, I fear, even within my lifetime, we will see drastic and unpleasant changes to our gun laws. At the end of the day, the politicians care about votes and getting into/staying in office more than our rights. If these trend keep happening and enough people keep screaming about gun control, sooner or later, they will get it. My apologies if my post was long-winded for some, but I am very passionate on this subject, and I have thought long and hard over the past few years about what has changed in American culture to cause all of these problems. My father is 75 years old now, and an avid hunter and competition shooter all his life. Every time I speak to him, he remarks how the words is changing, and how he doesn’t fit into it anymore. I just hope we, as a nation can come up with some real solutions.
 
Wow, where do you even begin with this one! I don’t believe there is any one answer to the question.
That is generally a clue that the question is bogus.

How about rephrasing it, "What do we do about the culture of violence in America?"
 
How about rephrasing it, "What do we do about the culture of violence in America?"

And we still must remember that since 1993, 21 long years, ,gun homicides have declined by 49% ,and gun related injuries have decreased by 75% .At the same time, the number of guns in circulation have increased dramatically. So where is all this violence? :scrutiny:

It has spectacularly decreased The problem is the, "if it bleeds, it leads" anti gun MSM, will never reveal to Mr. and Mrs. America (sorry,Diane ;)) that this is the case. :evil:

I,however, will keep repeating it until I croak. :D
 
And we still must remember that since 1993, 21 long years, ,gun homicides have declined by 49% ,and gun related injuries have decreased by 75% .At the same time, the number of guns in circulation have increased dramatically. So where is all this violence?
The MSM will never point out what you just said.

But to answer your question, the violence, such as it is, is concentrated in the Black and Hispanic cultures -- and it is there we must seek the answer to the problem.

It has spectacularly decreased The problem is the, "if it bleeds, it leads" anti gun MSM, will never reveal to Mr. and Mrs. America (sorry,Diane ) that this is the case.
Of course. The MSM has an agenda -- and if there were only ONE homicide a year in this country, the MSM would be running stories on it every day, for the rest of the year.
 
As for increasing the issued licenses to carry, I completely disagree with the way that is posed in the poll. There should be absolutely no need to require licensing. Just from an economical stand point, many law abiding citizens can't afford the required process to get licensed, thus carry. I know, I'm one of them. But fortunately for me I live in a state that doesn't infringe on my right to carry, based on licensing requirements, we have no such requirements. But it's not like that in most states. If someone is legal to carry according to their background check, that should be all that is required.
I advocate voluntary classes, but it shouldn't be a requirement to either CC or OC.

I'm not going to address the other issues, as there are just too many.
GS
 
Vern Humphrey said:
The MSM will never point out what you just said.

But to answer your question, the violence, such as it is, is concentrated in the Black and Hispanic cultures -- and it is there we must seek the answer to the problem.

True, Major. With no doubt.
 
There is an ongoing battle between good and evil, there always will be, weather it's with guns, or rocks, it's a basic part of our DNA, from the beginning of time we have been killing each other for land, religious beliefs, or some other reason, nothing changes but the instruments that we use. Because human beings have been killing each other since the beginning of time, when you have billions of humans running around with complex thought systems, sometimes a few will malfunction. I don't believe that there will ever come a time that this stops happening unless we evolve mentally in a different way than we are wired at the present time. Fear, anger, jealousy, and things of that nature aren't going to disappear just because we write laws on paper forbidding the taking of life. When the human brain goes out of control, all that stuff goes out the window, "so to speak" which is why we have wars and will probably always have to live with this, as part of the human experience.
 
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The MSM will never point out what you just said.

Of course. The MSM has an agenda -- and if there were only ONE homicide a year in this country, the MSM would be running stories on it every day, for the rest of the year.


NBC News: Gun violence in US has fallen dramatically over past 20 years, Justice Dept. report finds

CNN: Gun homicides, violence down sharply in past 20 years

NPR: Rate Of U.S. Gun Violence Has Fallen Since 1993, Study Says

TIME: Murders in U.S. Cities Reach Record Lows Again

LA Times: Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, study says

International Business Times: Gun Violence Down 49% Since 1993 Peak Despite Public Perception Of High Crime

BLOOMBERG NEWS: Majority of Americans Overstate Gun Violence Levels

And that's not counting regional news outlets or liberal commentary sites like Daily Kos. Oh wait, Daily Kos pointed it out too: Historical Trends in Firearm Homicides, and Gunshot Injuries and Deaths 1981 – 2011. (Of course, they concluded that firearms homicides aren't a good way to measure gun violence, but you'd expect that from Daily Kos.)
 
The purpose of government is not to PREVENT evil behavior; its purpose is to PUNISH evil behavior.

Men are wicked. Freedom is not safe. Trading liberty for security is unwise at best.
 
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