What Sort of Training Do The Police Get?

[mortablunt]

This is a question that has been knocking about in my skull for quite a while now. I was wondering what sort of firearms and tactical training the police get. Current and retired LEO's and friends, feel free to give your input. From what I heard from an officer in my county describing his firearms training, it was not very much or very good. According to him, they spent 6 weeks in training; 2 on driving, 2 on shooting, and 2 on procedures. I was also told about a sort of killing house, but it sounded more like that's advanced training not really focused on in the program and left more for the SWAT guys. From what I've heard, it sound like a civilian with a secondhand Glock, some time, an NRA basic course, and $40 to spend on ammo during a weekend could rapidly eclipse Police standards. This thread is not intended to cop bash.

 

[ball3006]

I agree with you on the training. When I went through police certification school back in the late 70s, we spent a week at the range. We were schooled on gun safety and how to operate the pistols and shotguns we had. We practiced for a few days with the instructors in attendance to help anyone that they thought they needed it. Then we shot for qualification. I was top shooter BTW. When I returned to the department I was employed by, I did not receive any further training or practice. A few years later, I became the chief and I had my guys shoot once a month. Seeing we were all hunter types, there were no complaints. Some of the guys would never be good shots. I shot with officers from other departments and I saw some of the worst gun handling and shooting I have ever seen. yes, an average joe that shoots regularily, can easily be a better gun handler and shot than most police officers. chris3

 

[armoredman]

My last Dept was 1 week of firearms in the Academy, which included 37mm gas gun, Glock and shotgun. I also took top score in my class. We also have annual qualifications, but for the last 5 of them I wore armor - I have never seen such poor gun handling in my life.

 

[signalzero]

The sad reality is that unless you are in a SWAT unit, there is very little training beyond the initial academy training.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

This is a question that has been knocking about in my skull for quite a while now. I was wondering what sort of firearms and tactical training the police get. Current and retired LEO's and friends, feel free to give your input. From what I heard from an officer in my county describing his firearms training, it was not very much or very good. According to him, they spent 6 weeks in training; 2 on driving, 2 on shooting, and 2 on procedures. I was also told about a sort of killing house, but it sounded more like that's advanced training not really focused on in the program and left more for the SWAT guys. From what I've heard, it sound like a civilian with a secondhand Glock, some time, an NRA basic course, and $40 to spend on ammo during a weekend could rapidly eclipse Police standards. This thread is not intended to cop bash.

About a year ago I was taking a class. We had someone who had just finished the police academy. During lunch we asked him about his firearms training. It was either 40 or 80 hours of training which is in line with what your numbers.

 

[pbearperry]

Firearms training is important for sure,but I truly believe police officers should get training to help them from going ballistic with the thousands of mental defects they will encounter.The majority of cops in their careers,will never have to shoot their guns at a perp.However,mouthy losers are encountered every day.

 

[HDCamel]

The majority of cops in their careers,will never have to shoot their guns at a perp.

I think the numbers are something like 50% of cops will have to draw on a perp, but only 1% will ever fire on one.

At least, that's what I've heard. Could be wrong or outdated.

 

[Isaac-1]

This is speaking from second hand experience, mostly from friends and relatives that are LEO's , it seems officer training levels vary considerably from department to department, some seem to have very minimal requirements, I know of one small town department that offered a patrol job to one of my inlaws while she was a couple of semesters into working on her criminal justice degree and had completed her CCW class, this would have been ride along for a couple of weeks then on her own. Another relative spent 2-3 months in the local police academy to get a transport job with the sheriffs dept at the local jail. (these two sites are less than 15 miles apart)

 

[Owen Sparks]

The few cops that I know who can shoot well learned how on their own. They may take advantage of some free practice ammo or access to the police range but by and large they got their skills through private practice. I remember years ago the firearms instructor from the local police accadamy came to an IDPA match and finished in the lower half of his division. He did OK compaired to the general public but was not competitive against the more serious shooters. This is pretty typical in my experience.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

As with most things: Those who do something as part of their job<Those who do something because they love it<Those who do something they love as their job.

 

[316SS]

I truly believe police officers should get training to help them from going ballistic with the thousands of mental defects they will encounter.The majority of cops in their careers,will never have to shoot their guns at a perp.However,mouthy losers are encountered every day.

Many police agencies have a motto along the lines of "to protect and serve." Note that no mention is made of "unless the citizen in question is a mental defect and/or a mouthy loser." The job of a beat cop is to interact with the public. If that makes you want to go "ballistic" then you should find another job. Judging from 99% of my interactions with law enforcement, they seemed to assume that I was mentally defective and/or a mouthy loser. Obviously I disagree. Well, maybe not about the mouthy part; cite me if you have to but spare me the lecture, you're not my father

 

[lemaymiami]

In a 22 year stint in law enforcement my training ranged from "meeting minimum standards" which is the aim of every police academy... all the way up to some pretty good armed encounter survival training. Every state has its Police Officer Standards and Training (P.O.S.T.) outfit (or its equivalent) that sets the exact "minimum standards" that officers have to meet as recruits and later for annual (or semi-annual) qualification.

Anyone that assumes that most officers aren't exactly range demons is correct. Most will never show any more interest in regular training as cops than they did before they pinned on the badge. On the other side of the coin, most outfits do make an attempt to encourage those that want to do additional range time and training. Those are the officers that will become weapons trainers (either at the local academy or in-house). They're also the officers that will get the nod when they apply to join any special weapons crew (call it SWAT or SRT or Emergency Services or whatever.... that's the unit that will train constantly and see actual use whenever it's needed).

My department (a modest 100 man outfit in Dade county, north of Miami) was exceptional in one regard and that was training. I was lucky enough to be in charge of training for three years towards the end of my career and we went out of our way to do more than the "minimum". We did mandatory blade defense training, introduced and trained for ASP baton training, offered early TASER and chemical weapons training (and required anyone wanting to qualify with those kind of weapons to take a full on hit with them as part of that training....). The training I was proudest of wasn't initiated by the Department until a few of our weapons trainers came up with the idea of serious officer survival training.... Those officers (who were already certified trainers for the local police academy) came up with a program that focused heavily on tactics as opposed to range work and we were able to implement it for every officer on the department. What brought it about was the casualty rate among south Florida officers in the mid to late eighties. The training made a point of "killing" every officer that went through it - in a variety of ways - during traffic stops, handling violent confrontations, pre-planned ambushes... All with the added fun of having a dedicated dispatcher, beat up old cars that we could run on gravel roads, and various vacant buildings at our disposal. Trainers used every kind of weapon with blanks, and every portion of the training was videotaped so that groups of officers could see which tactics worked and which were very likely to get you killed.... In my opinion competence in shooting is only the first step in learning the important stuff that keeps you alive in street work. Tactics and understanding how to achieve and maintain the advantage over a possibly armed opponent are far more important for anyone in that line of work.

I've been out of the loop now for more than fifteen years and have no idea whether the level of training my outfit achieved was maintained or is still even offered locally. When I read or hear of fatal encounters in recent years locally I see poor tactics in many cases... On the rare occasion I watch a police reality show on the tube I cringe at some of the things I see..... but I'm also cranky and opinionated so you can take that with a grain of salt.

Yes, any ordinary gun owner can easily become more proficient in handling weapons than the ordinary officer by constant practice and attending advanced training opportunities. Tactics that will keep you in one piece during a variety of armed confrontations aren't taught very widely.... and are a rarity in the civilian world.

 

[scaatylobo]

from the horses mouth

I was LEO for 26 years and I was a "gun guy" so was asked to take over range and did so for about 2 miserable years.

After shooting at academy,we did 2 weeks of shooting to include pistol,rifle and shotgun.

Then had to qual [ some NEVER did ] at least once a year.

I was not allowed to take the gun of those that did not qual.

They were sent back to patrol or detective WITHOUT shooting a qual.

So my take is MOST officers are not gun guys and most do not shoot on their own and do the tough stuff that makes you look bad.

Watch the 3 gun shoots and see how many LEO's will enter !.

The really hard training is done by those that care and spend the time and money to make as few mistakes as possible during a SHTF moment.

Too bad the officers dont get or at least seek the same.

 

[LeonCarr]

It varies from agency to agency and from academy to academy. When I went through the police academy the firearms instructors had the firing range open every Saturday prior to our actual academy firearms training for voluntary practice. We then spent 16 hours at the range one day and 14 hours at the range the next day for training and qualification, shooting every thing from handguns to shotguns to submachine guns to patrol rifles to sniper rifles...big fun.

Once you get to an agency, it depends honestly on how your Command Staff looks at firearms. If your Chief/Sheriff/Commander is a shooter, then there will be lots of training opportunities and lots of ammo available . If your boss is a meet minimum state standards and shoot once a year 50 rounds to save budget money type of person, then you might have to train on your own time and your own dime.

I have read that a typical middle of the road (C Class) USPSA shooter can outshoot about 90% of police officers.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Ankeny]

I have read that a typical middle of the road (C Class) USPSA shooter can out shoot about 90% of police officers.

Around here I would think about 90% of police officers would be "C" class shooters with duty gear after an orientation to the sport and some familiarization. The LEO's I shoot with who joined the sport on their own have classifications from B class to Grand Master. FWIW, I have put a couple of local agencies through various IDPA/USPSA scenarios and they did fine.

Two of the guys I shoot with in USPSA are trainers for their respective agency. Their expectations exceed the state requirements, but for liability purposes they do qualify with the state requirements. LEO's here seem to perform well above the norm that I keep hearing about on the internet. Maybe it is because I live in Wyoming where guns are part of the life style. That and a lot of the LEOs in my county are former military.

 

[TexasRifleman]

LEO's here seem to perform well above the norm that I keep hearing about on the internet. Maybe it is because I live in Wyoming where guns are part of the life style. That and a lot of the LEOs in my county are former military.

Seems to be the same here. Around me, in the more rural areas, the police are pretty dang good with guns and most shoot for fun, hunting, etc. In Ft Worth and Dallas proper I see the opposite, frighteningly bad gun handling skills and in general the attitude that the gun is just another tool and they don't really give much attention to it when not required to.

There is a SWAT team member down the street from me. I won't say the agency but I invited him to the range with me once and he scared the living daylights out of me so we won't be shooting together again.

 

[mgkdrgn]

When I did my Front Sight training a few years back, there were two police officers in my 10 person class.

Guess which two people "muzzle swept" me ... a total of 3 times.

 

[sidheshooter]

Not all LEOs are careless divot punchers, by any stretch; in fact, the majority aren't.

That disclaimer out of the way–in deference to the brave individuals who serve and protect: all the divots in the floor, walls and shotup/missing ceiling tiles of the two best ranges in my area (both *very* good, award winning in fact, and hosts to the likes of Ayoob and Farnam) were put there by LEO NDs during quals.

Food for thought.

 

[Sam1911]

...were put there by LEO NDs during quals.

At my old club in MD, the local Sheriff's department used our indoor range for qualification.

All kidding aside, the week after qualification they'd send the most junior deputee down to our range with a bucket of paint and a pile of ceiling tiles and fix whatever had been "dinged." It was quite neighborly of them.

Having said that, perhaps the fastest AND most accurate shooter I know is a Detective Sargeant with the New Jersey State Police.

I wonder if there are forums for SCCA racers and the like, where they wonder at how poorly cops drive? Probably.

 

[sidheshooter]

Cop driving seems to be pretty darn good, relative to the general populace, probably because they do a lot of hustling around corners every shift. If cops had to run through a few mags every shift, things might look different for all those defenseless ceiling tiles.

 

[AFDavis11]

We had a neat "kill-house" when I was a cop, long time ago. It was great training. I learned a lot about my reaction to stress and my responses.

I've trained with cops and one thing you note about cops is that they usually train with their equipment and that equipment isn't always as good as the stuff we buy and take for granted. Things like clip carriers and holsters are designed for serious retention, not speed or ease of use.

 

[JustinJ]

We did mandatory blade defense training, introduced and trained for ASP baton training, offered early TASER and chemical weapons training (and required anyone wanting to qualify with those kind of weapons to take a full on hit with them as part of that training....).

A full on ASP baton hit was part of the training? Where is this strike landed? I assume very few signed up to get qualified in the knife defense training.

 

[GRIZ22]

From what I've heard, it sound like a civilian with a secondhand Glock, some time, an NRA basic course, and $40 to spend on ammo during a weekend could rapidly eclipse Police standards. This thread is not intended to cop bash.


You really think think that this stuff and a weekend would surpass the 2 weeks of training you mentioned? With $40 on ammo?

If you are talking about the Baltimore County Police their academy is 27 weeks long. See:

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/police/careers/academy.html

I don't think you should feel every cop should be master class shooters.

The amount of training police get is directly related to how much their agency has to spend. I spent almost 30 years as a LE firearms instructor in the NE and for a Federal agency. Better than 95% of them I'd class as competent shooters. You can't be an expert at everything.

 

[lemaymiami]

You got me Justin.... what I should have said was that chemical weapons and TASER type things did include training that required the officer to take a hit of gas or a jolt of elec trickery... ASP training, though, was pretty realistic with trainers in full "redman" gear to protect them from the various strikes, parries, etc from the officer being trained. Blade defense was pretty much with rubber knives, thank heavens since the injury rate would have been unacceptable otherwise...

 

[twofifty]

PPC

I can imagine several reasons why the average officer does not compete with civilians in USPSA or IDPA.

They have another option: NRA sanctioned Police Pistol Combat (PPC) comps are intended for active and retired officers. However the news, the web and the NRA are quite silent on PPC.

Looking at a few youtubes, PPC courses of fire involve a static firing line and static targets. You shoot standing, seated, then standing with gun supported on left and right barrricade edge. At 25 and 50 yards. In revolver division, the task was 24 rounds in 2 minutes 45 seconds max time, with a beltfull of speedloaders. Score is for points regardless of time. I saw no movement, no ducking to cover while reloading.

X marks the spot.