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What to ‘not’ post in your windows prior to a self-defense shooting....

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Aim1, Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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    From the article:

    “Police are investigating what led to the shooting. A sign in the window of the home where the shooting occurred reads, "No trespassing. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again!"


    When the prosecutor asks if you have any motives or what your intent was they’ll say you weren’t scared. They’ll say you were a vigilante looking forward to legally blowing someone away.


    E13BA3C9-CC20-4BA7-8309-36852C21C9BD.jpeg


    2EE9D661-37AA-4488-998C-74B5C2485C94.jpeg

    www.fox9.com/news/police-shooting-follows-crash-involving-stolen-car-in-st-paul
     
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  2. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    I always took that message as inferring that the person would defend his home with deadly force. And that if you choose to try and break into someone’s home with that kind of message posted, you deserved what you got.

    Should he instead have posted a sign that read “Please Mr. Criminal, don’t break into my home and possibly do harm to me and my family. For I have a firearm and I’m scared of my trial by a jury”.

    I have no signs posted at my house. But if you make it in alive, you will NOT make it out in the same condition. At least the guy had a posted warning. I don’t.
     
  3. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    If you'd feel stupid explaining it in court, don't do it.

    Applies to nearly everything in life.
     
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  4. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    No signs on my house, on my car, no hats, and only rarely on my tee shirts and that is only when I know my company.
     
  5. Scooter22

    Scooter22 Member

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    I don't make threats or advertise I have guns. Period. These days, chances are it could be held against you that you instigated the encounter. I just play it as Gomer would, Surprise, Surprise.
     
  6. frogfurr

    frogfurr Member

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    If you are a NRA life member and put a sticker on your back window and someone breaks into to your car/truck and steals your gun.............
     
  7. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Here in FL, you cant use deadly force to defend property, only "life and limb."

    At least we have a stand your ground clause, now, so we are no longer legally obligated to attempt to flee before shooting. Unfortunately, knucklehead attorneys keep using it as a blanket defense of every bad shoot here, so they keep trying to repeal it again.:cuss:
     
  8. Styx

    Styx Member

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    I have a pro Trump and pro gun stickers on my cars over the past 3 years. Never had sn issue. The most I had was two smart comments.

    As far as the homeowner being arrested, there must be more to the story and more evidence that wasn't provided. He wasn't just arrested because of the sign in his window. If it he was and if it was a good shoot evidence wise, then the homeowner will most likely get off.
     
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  9. Labguy47

    Labguy47 Member

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    I’ve been through one of these, and all I’m gonna say is every round has a lawyer attached. You will need between $5000-$10000 retainer for your lawyer, and five times that amount for specialist. I hope you never have to go through what I did.
     
  10. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    It’s one of those things...as much as people feel morally okay killing people for whatever reason, advertising it with cutesy signage is asking for trouble. Intent is a thing, a big thing, in criminal law.

    I think those signs and sayings are tacky.

    Also, if I were a prosecutor who was already pretty sure I was righteously prosecuting someone for murder, heck yeah I’d bring up someone’s dopey sign and make it seem like they were unhinged. That’s a win. Know how the defense could win? Not murdering someone and having a sign that said it was going to happen.

    It’s all tongue-in-cheek...until it isn’t.
     
  11. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    I see signs like this for sale at every gun show. The people that buy and post them think they are being clever. Maybe they think that burglars, etc., will be deterred. Instead, these signs advertise the presence of guns on the premises -- guns that in themselves might become the objects of theft. Not to mention that the presence of such signs might be detrimental to a self-defense case if there is a shooting.

    Be smart and don't post such signs.
     
  12. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    The prosecutor will look at the totality of the circumstances in a shooting situation before making a filing decision.

    Will such signage be a factor? Maybe. It could really become a factor if the shooter makes reference to such a sign as the reason he shot... especially if the DA has a liberal bias or a left-wing constituency to placate.

    It will definitely play a role in a civil trial, even if the shooting is ruled justified by a police agency and the local (and possibly federal) Prosecutors’ office. Lots of money gets paid out to the estates of total mopes by insurance companies, governments and people because of something trivial like that.

    I get the idea behind them, and to each his own...but I prefer to lay a little bit lower on the “publicizing that I have a gun” spectrum then some folks do.

    Stay safe!
     
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  13. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    If the perp interprets a sign stating they will be shot if they enter the property, as a signal that there are goods in the house to be burgled, then the homeowner who subsequently shoots them is just putting a little chlorine in the gene pool.

    I can’t wait for the lawsuit where the perp sues the homeowner because said homeowner didn’t provide adequate signage to warn the perp about the possible dangers of breaking into the home.
     
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  14. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Publicly stating that you would not allow an intruder to survive regardless of the circumstances is probably not wise.

    The law doesn't allow that kind of leeway, in fact, it demands that deadly force only be used if it necessary. If it isn't necessary, using deadly force is a serious crime. Killing someone to prevent them from making it out alive if (to provide just one example) they have realized their mistake and are trying to escape isn't necessary or legal.
     
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  15. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    "Survivors will be shot again" -- a self-defense shooting can be justified only up until the point where the attacker is no longer a threat. An "anchor shot" is, quite simply, murder. Advertising ahead of time that you are willing to commit murder will not bode well for you if the unfortunate happens, there is a shooting, and you find yourself facing the wheels of justice.
     
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  16. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    The law also demands that people not break into other people’s homes....It is my home. It is my safe haven. I have the right to be safe in my home. I am afforded the right to self protection and self preservation. I make no apologies for my statement. I will defend my home and my family with every single weapon I have at my disposal until my, or the perp’s, last breath. I take no pity when I read about criminals who get shot and killed while breaking in, or while in someone’s home. I don’t care if they are 14 or 40. And I have had people I know lose sons from such actions.

    Your right to live is voluntarily terminated the second you break into my home. Because you should NOT be there. And if you are inside, I do not have politely interview you to ask your intent. Your stated intent is irrelevant. You already weighed their risk/reward before they broke in. And if you hadn’t, that’s not my fault.

    Some may view my standpoint as extreme even possibly illegal. That’s fine. It’s MY home. Not anyone else’s. Don’t BREAK INTO MY HOME where MY CHILDREN live, play, and sleep, and you have nothing to fear. Doesn’t really seem that difficult or unreasonable to me. I’ll face the fire should I ever unfortunately be put in that position. And the court can decide my fate. But my children will be safe and the perp won’t get to make the same “mistake” with someone else’s family.

    I have friends who have keys to my home. I have friends who don’t even knock before they come in. There’s no problem. But my friends and family aren’t going to do that at 02:00 in the morning when everyone is sleeping. They will call, knock, or find some way to make sure I know who it is. And after that is established, then they are welcome to anything I have. Again, doesn’t seem that unreasonable. And I would afford them the same courtesy (because I value my life as well) should I ever need to be at their house at 02:00 in the morning. Again, not so unreasonable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  17. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    As was stated, macho signs about being macho with a firearm advertises that you have something to prove - that you have strong emotional beliefs to offset some kind of innate and irrational fear - that you are pre-programmed to go off like a bomb.
    In a home invasion or any self-defense scenario, you want the aggressor to leave or allow you to leave - shooting another person for any reason other than defending life or limb is twisted and shallow - nothing you own is worth anyone’s life no matter how stupid they are - look around, you are surrounded by stupidity every day - the world is full of absolutely stupid people - you don’t want to shoot stupid people, you want them to go away UNLESS, they just summarily refuse to allow an exit.
    If you are going to carry or own a self-defense firearm, your mind must be neutral, peaceful and very, very humble. If you find yourself even slightly desiring a shooting scenario, you need help.
    One does not use a firearm to defend, you use a firearm as the very last choice to survive.
     
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  18. RETG

    RETG Member

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    Only signs on my house are alarm stickers. I would prefer to greet someone breaking in with a surprise. What that surprise is???????

    However, I will never run from MY HOUSE.
     
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  19. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    I completely agree with your willingness to use deadly force to protect your home. I have a family also, and I would defend them using any and all means available and necessary. But notice the “necessary” part. What I won’t do is state on the internet that I’m going to kill anyone who breaks into my home. That’s an extreme statement, and it could easily be used against you in court. Besides, are you really going to kill the drunk teenager who broke into your house thinking it was his, then surrendered the moment you held him at gunpoint? Or the crackhead who smashed a window, opened your door, and then immediately collapsed face-down with his hands up when you confronted him? If someone breaks into my home and then immediately stops being a threat when I confront them, I see no reason to shoot them. And if I did, I probably wouldn’t advertise it on the internet...
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  20. stillquietvoice

    stillquietvoice Member

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    Been there. If anybody finds themselves in a SD situation and make a call to le don't ever admit you did the shooting. It is an addition of guilt on tape and is enough to be arrested and charged. Just say someone was shot. Then only speak after consulting an attorney.
     
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  21. armedwalleye

    armedwalleye Member

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    Well, being from MN, and St Paul, myself, I'd state that arresting the homeowner is probably right about on the policy line for this state/city in light of the political climate up here. We are NOT a property defense state. The news outlets like to spin the stories as they're delivered to get maximum attention. As in so many other things in life, I suspect things will turn on the small facts, regardless of the signage. Those small facts are a long way off....
     
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  22. GAF

    GAF Member

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    I have always looked on those signs as a joke. I have known people who put up sighs like that , but owned no firearms.
    IMHO, If a person puts signs like that on their property and they have the mindset of the sigh maybe they should not have a gun in the house.
    Signs on my house like that, NO WAY !
     
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  23. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Those signs, shirts, and bumper stickers are tacky, and just advertise that you have guns to steal.

    No thanks.
     
  24. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    Lol, one of the main things they want to steal in the first place. You can't fix stupid.
    And you are right, those shirts and crap are tacky. I hate to say it, but go to a gun show and you will not see the best dressed in town.And you will see plenty of weird and tacky.
     
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  25. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Ditto on the media spinning the facts.

    The victim was probably just walking down the street and stopped to admire the homeowners car. The fact he was fleeing from the Police after crashing the stolen car he was driving is irrelevant.

    It is not only important that gun owners know the elements required for self-defense but also being able to say the right things to the Police to explain why you were in fear of your life and believe using deadly force was your last resort.
     
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