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What to do when you see an illegal gun transaction?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Isaac-1, Feb 18, 2013.

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  1. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I was in a different part of the store and therefore I have no idea what may or may not have happened regarding any alleged transaction...
     
  2. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i have a strong default position of minding my own business, but there are two things that would enter into my decision making

    one is whether i'm going to assist the gov in violating people's rights by enforcing what most of us consider unconstitutional laws or passively resist

    the second is whether I have reason to believe the person trying to get the gun is likely going to do something very bad with it (like they've been talking about shooting their spouse or co-workers or something)
     
  3. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I agree that there is a strong possibility no crime was committed. He found himself unable to purchase the firearm for a reason that does not make him a "prohibited person", and aborted the sale. Then, his female companion, who had seen the firearm, decided she wanted it, and she jumped on it.

    The suggestion of the clerk, assuming he only knew what you described, was out of line, at least from an employer-policy standpoint, and possibly from a BATFE one as well.
    But, he may have known more than you (or we) do.
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    No.

    Those factors are not legally relevant.

    Doesn't matter at all.

    NO.

    Again, read the STICKY.

    A straw purchase is one person filling out the 4473 when another person is actually buying the gun. Joint property, joint checking accounts, prohibited persons, and all such considerations do not change the fact that person A is filling out the paperwork but person B is really buying that gun.

    If person A wants to buy a GIFT for person B (as in, a present...purchased with their own money to give to another) that is perfectly fine. But don't expect to change horses mid-stream and tell a dealer, "Oh, well then she will buy it for me as a gift." That's won't fly if the dealer is following the rules.
     
  5. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    I find it best not to involve myself in the personal affairs of others.
     
  6. JVaughn

    JVaughn Member

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    +1. Exactly.
     
  7. joejoeshooter

    joejoeshooter Member

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    To all that said mind your own business - I bid you this.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

    So there..

    JJS
     
  8. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    I have ran into too many businesses that give us a hard time about my wife handling the business at the bank and other places so If I forgot my Id and the wife wants to buy it for Me it is no one's business cause we are married. :fire:
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Most of us here believe that the laws surrounding such a sale are both unConstitutional and wrong.

    So in this case "doing nothing" does not promote evil, but rather, promotes GOOD.

    Now, to the extent that it might eventually lead the dealer to lose their license, we might feel some obligation to try and make sure they remember both what the law says, and that people are watching and noticing what goes on.
     
  10. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    So the ATF are the good guys?
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    And that's fine. If she wants to buy you a GIFT, great. She can buy you a gift. Just don't go tell the clerk "I want that gun and my wife is going to fill out the paperwork for me..." That's a clear straw sale and, lawfully, the clerk should refuse you. She can buy the gun without saying anything about her reasons for buying it -- or she could even tell the clerk, "I am buying this as a gift for my husband." Those shouldn't raise red flags.

    Just don't walk in and demand that the clerk do something for you that his license depends on him NOT doing and then get mad if he won't do it.
     
  12. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I would mind my own business since I doubt you know the entire situation. A store is not going to pass along a fine to their customers.
     
  13. BK

    BK Member

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    I was referring to those parents buying a gift for their child, not one buying for the other.
     
  14. Isaac-1

    Isaac-1 Member

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    Again I am admitting that there may be more to the story than is apparent from my point of view, but the thing that really shocked me was that the employee after getting to the impasse regarding the ID took such a direct action asking the woman if she was a state resident and if she had valid ID, then jumping into basically telling her to fill out the papework so the man could get the gun. To me this is somewhat different than the typical scene that I am sure many of us have seen with men and women together buying guns, this is the store employee basically saying we can get around the lack of ID and complete the sale if the woman fills out the paperwork....
     
  15. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I agree. If what you think you overheard is what was really said, that store owner has a problem on his/her hands with that clerk. Pretty scary considering the consequences if caught.
     
  16. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    It sounds like two people with poor judgement met. One for buying something before clearing his legal obligations and another for trying to complete a sale which may or may not have been a violation of his employers rules, but then the world is filled with people who have diminished decision making capacities......
     
  17. Rezin

    Rezin Member

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    MYOB....
     
  18. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    This. Besides we'll all likely be prohibited persons anyways from stricter gun laws so might as well warm up to the idea. Just kidding, of course.... ;)
     
  19. 06

    06 Member

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    Like others have said---none of my business. Not my store, not my friends, and not my firearm.
     
  20. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Let's just say that UBC's were passed into law... would you get your panties in a wad if you observed what you are nearly positive to be an illegal firearm transaction? I would mind my own business and let law enforcement do their jobs.

    Let me give you a real example... I was taking a walk in PA where I grew up. I observed several people hunting groundhogs with AR-15 type rifles. My first reaction was.... THEY'RE BREAKING PA LAW.... then I thought about it... it was their land and I was a guest at that point. I was not going to butt in one way or the other since I feel the "law" is kind of stupid and should have been changed a long time ago.
     
  21. Roadkill

    Roadkill Member

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    I'm sorry but I'm not feeling too warm and fuzzy about getting involved with the feds right now. Never invite the man into your life. Once he's there he forgets its your house and sets the rules. Simply put - none of my business.
     
  22. Outlaw Man

    Outlaw Man Member

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    I actually witnessed that very situation while I was waiting my turn at a Bass Pro Shops counter last year. The guy didn't want to drive four hours round trip to get his license, and they rejected his proposal to "just mail it to my house." As soon as he tried to switch to his wife buying it for him, the clerk politely told him he wasn't going home that day with a firearm, at least not from their store.

    I thought he did the right thing, but if he had went ahead with the sale, I'd have probably just let it go. I heard that portion of the conversation quite clearly, but I didn't hear the first of it, so there's definitely no way to know all the details.
     
  23. Schneider

    Schneider Member

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    Who, me? I dint see nuffins...
     
  24. HankR

    HankR Member

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    A agree this could possibly be a gray area in some states. One reason that I "kindly asked" my wife to get her CCW. In our state a loaded gun in the car is legit, but in some neigh boring states one needs a CCW. I didn't want her to get in trouble for my gun. Basic CYA.

    I'm guilty of this. Many years ago I lived in a state w/ onerous purchase laws. I wanted a break open Rossi matched pair to teach my son to shoot (way before he was big enough to shoot it, I just wanted to be prepared). I had my wife fill out the paperwork, hoping she'd get a little feel about why I get so upset about these rules. (In all honesty, I had forgotten that the form asked your weight, I think that was the part that annoyed her the most. What other product do I need to specify my race before buying?)
     
  25. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I'd just mind my sweet old business. I'm not the police of the world or anything.
     
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