What to do with these .38 bullets?

M

MrMagumba

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Joined
Jan 9, 2016
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76
Got these for free and "need" to put them to use. Read some other recent threads for background. Easy question first: 135 gr .355 jacketed. I don't see many of these for sale or loading data for them. Is there a use besides 9mm Luger? They may be Berry's but they sell size .356 so maybe my caliper. All I have is a small 9mm semi-auto and a 380 auto. Wondering what others do with these.

The .358 148gr DEWC will go into my .357 6" GP100. Not much hand-gunner experience here. I have loaded Speer 148 HBWC with Titegroup with no complaints. Never loaded coated 158gr. Don't see much reason to put any of these in 357 mag cases, so if I was to buy one powder the next time I am at the store, is there one that would be good for both these bullets in 38 special? It would seem that the heavier coated, and DEWC shape lighter, should lend itself to a compromise powder.
My wish list includes:
Most consistent measure through RCBS Uniflow (I usually weigh every charge but hope to not have to)
Good chance of visually detecting a mis-charge
Clean burner/minimal lead fouling
Best accuracy for these 2 different bullets

If this is unrealistic, I would probably get a powder for the 148's and maybe try something on hand for the 158 coated. I have some Power Pistol which works for jacketed and it seems the consensus is you can load low end jacketed data for coated.
Am I missing anything important? Will probably email the companies next to see what velocity they recommend, but please chime in if you know. Otherwise, what should I throw in the shopping basket for powder?

free bullets.jpg
 
MrMagumba said:
Got these for free and "need" to put them to use. Read some other recent threads for background. Easy question first: 135 gr .355 jacketed. I don't see many of these for sale or loading data for them. Is there a use besides 9mm Luger? They may be Berry's but they sell size .356 so maybe my caliper. All I have is a small 9mm semi-auto and a 380 auto. Wondering what others do with these.

The .358 148gr DEWC will go into my .357 6" GP100. Not much hand-gunner experience here. I have loaded Speer 148 HBWC with Titegroup with no complaints. Never loaded coated 158gr. Don't see much reason to put any of these in 357 mag cases, so if I was to buy one powder the next time I am at the store, is there one that would be good for both these bullets in 38 special? It would seem that the heavier coated, and DEWC shape lighter, should lend itself to a compromise powder.
My wish list includes:
Most consistent measure through RCBS Uniflow (I usually weigh every charge but hope to not have to)
Good chance of visually detecting a mis-charge
Clean burner/minimal lead fouling
Best accuracy for these 2 different bullets

If this is unrealistic, I would probably get a powder for the 148's and maybe try something on hand for the 158 coated. I have some Power Pistol which works for jacketed and it seems the consensus is you can load low end jacketed data for coated.
Am I missing anything important? Will probably email the companies next to see what velocity they recommend, but please chime in if you know. Otherwise, what should I throw in the shopping basket for powder?

View attachment 1234903
Click to expand...
Of the powders commonly available and affordable in the current market I think BE86, W231/HP38, W244, and Accurate No.5 are going to be the best bets. Plenty of loading data, the people who use powder drops generally have good results, and they are all showing up on shelves and online pretty regularly.
 
Titegroup fits your powder wish list with the exception of visually detecting an mis-charge. I don’t have a problem using it, but others do. In my testing it produced very precise groups and was accurate. You could at least start with it.
Faster powders, as noted above will do fine for target loads. If you can find some N320 or Sport Pistol they also fit your criteria.
MrMagumba said:
I have some Power Pistol which works for jacketed and it seems the consensus is you can load low end jacketed data for coated.
Click to expand...
PP works for full power loads, but you should use lead data for coated bullets. You can use low end jacketed for plated bullets.
 
Ok, thanks Lordpaxman. I must have been confusing plated and coated when talking about low end jacketed data. The SNS website says to use lead data. I won't give up on Titegroup. I might try some practice loads and set the charged case on an electronic scale just before bullet seating. I only have a single stage press, and I'm ok with that.
 
MrMagumba said:
Got these for free and "need" to put them to use.
Click to expand...
I too over the years have been "given" many things reloading related. Much of the time, when it's bullets, it's generally not something I already load, or even have interest loading. While the bullets are free, the powder and primers and time it takes to load, are not. Especially nowadays, with the cost skyrocketing for powder and primers. Looks like to me, you already have everything you need to "try" these bullets. This is what I would do before I invested in a powder that I might not be able to use in the future since I didn't use it previously. Although HP38 and W231 is pretty universal.... I already have that on my shelf. You may find it a viable option too for your other reloading needs. But, I would try what you already have (PP and Titegroup) first. Both are proven powders with the caliber and bullet weights/profiles you have and should perform as well as anything "new" you might buy. If you are happy with bullet performance and want to explore more with those you have, or are interested in getting more that are not "free" you can then go down that rabbit hole.

JMTCs.
 
I load a 158 SWC in 357 with Bullseye, but many powder's will work just fine in it. Same with the 148 in a 38, lots of choices in powder for that one. Both are very common bullets for their respective calibers. The 135 in a 9mm falls between the 124 and 147, which are both very common weights and there are also many powders that will work.
What powders are available locally is the bigger question, and what are your intended uses for these?
 
The 355 bullet will work in 9x18, 9x17, 9x21, 38 Super, 38 Spl, and 357 mag.
However, I have never gotten accuracy with a plated bullet unless it is a Speer/Hornady level bullet, and even then the real jacketed bullets do a bit better.
 
If you're happy with Titegroup, it will work for the Missouri Bullet 148 grain SWC and the 158 grain SWCs you have there unless you want to try some other powders just to be different. There's plenty of data out there for both types of bullets. You can use anywhere from 3.2 to 3.8 grains of Titegroup with the 158-grain SWC.

The 135-grain, .355 dia. bullets can be used in 9mm, .38 Super, and probably .357 Sig. They're a touch undersized for a .357 barrel, but being plated they are soft enough they might swedge up a bit when pushed from behind with burning powder to work in .38 Special. If the expander plug in your die set is too generous, they may be a loose fit in .38 cases and require more care with crimping. If you were to give those a go in .38 Special, 3.5 grains of Titegroup should work according to the Hodgdon Reloading Center. You can generally use data for copper-plated bullets interchangeably with cast-lead bullet data in .38 Special. The copper is thin and quite a bit softer than alloy used in bullet jackets.

Save your Power Pistol for jacketed 125-grain bullets for .38 Special +P loads. It's ideal for that.

If you're worried about not charging or double charging .38 Special cases, look down the mouths of the charged cases sitting in a loading block with a light overhead. Once visually checked, you can then seat bullets with confidence! Best wishes!
 
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somerled said:
If you're happy with Titegroup, it will work for the Missouri Bullet 148 grain SWC and the 158 grain SWCs you have there unless you want to try some other powders just to be different. There's plenty of data out there for both types of bullets. You can use anywhere from 3.2 to 3.8 grains of Titegroup with the 158-grain SWC.

The 135-grain, .355 dia. bullets can be used in 9mm, .38 Super, and probably .357 Sig. They're a touch undersized for a .357 barrel, but being plated they are soft enough they might swedge up a bit when pushed from behind with burning powder to work in .38 Special. If the expander plug in your die set is too generous, they may be a loose fit in .38 cases and require more care with crimping. If you were to give those a go in .38 Special, 3.5 grains of Titegroup should work according to the Hodgdon Reloading Center. You can generally use data for copper-plated bullets interchangeably with cast-lead bullet data in .38 Special. The copper is thin and quite a bit softer than alloy used in bullet jackets.

Save your Power Pistol for jacketed 125-grain bullets for .38 Special +P loads. It's ideal for that.

If you're worried about not charging or double charging .38 Special cases, look down the mouths of the charged cases sitting in a loading block with a light overhead. Once visually checked, you can then seat bullets with confidence! Best wishes!
Click to expand...
The SAAMI specs for the barrels of 38 Spl and 357 mag are exactly the same as 9x19. The only of those I called was the bullets for 9x17. Check the SAAMI and stop assuming things. It is all public knowledge.
 
More empty cases have been missed using loading blocks then by charging the case, immediately look down the case at the powder, and immediately seating a bullet.
 
Thank you, noylj, for your expertise and kindness in correcting me. I spent time with SAAMI just now and also found this article. The author slugged a lot of barrels, and talked about grooves, different rates of twists, etc.

www.shootingtimes.com

9mm and .38/.357 Barrel Bore Diameters Explained - Shooting Times

The 9mm and .38/.357 handgun barrels have the same bore diameters, but they shoot bullets with different diameters. Here's a thorough study of the situation.
www.shootingtimes.com www.shootingtimes.com

I appreciate your insights.
 
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For revolvers, you may have to sort your brass to find those with the thicker case walls. US GI surplus brass used to have notably thicker walls. Thin walled brass may not size down enough to securely hold the smaller diameter bullet. That has been my experience.
Another thought is that they may shoot better through a Colt bore since for years their bores were as tight as .354 or .355 compared to Smith and Ruger running from .356 to .358. It would be easier to forget these bullets in a .38/.357 and just use them in some type of 9mm. They are too heavy for your .380.
Also, W231/HP38 would be your "do it sll" powder up to about 850fps in the 38 and 357 cases where Titegroup would become too touchy with standard weight bullets at those speeds.
 
TitleGroup is simply too touchy. Bullseye was always very well-behaved, as were almost all the old Hercules flake powders (except Blue Dot)
A very interesting powder is True Blue. In some cartridges it is a lot like 231/HP38 and in other cases it is like Silhouette. Great metering and really does well in most non-magnum Pistol rounds.
 
noylj said:
TitleGroup is simply too touchy. Bullseye was always very well-behaved, as were almost all the old Hercules flake powders (except Blue Dot)
A very interesting powder is True Blue. In some cartridges it is a lot like 231/HP38 and in other cases it is like Silhouette. Great metering and really does well in most non-magnum Pistol rounds.
Click to expand...
I’m loading True Blue in .38Spl with some of RMR’s new Zinc jacketed hollow points (.355” diameter for 9m/m) and so far the results are pretty okay. I plan to test 5.8gr for accuracy today or tomorrow.
 
I used to load DEWC 148gr in my 358 Norma Mag over a pinch of shotgun powder. They shot into clover leafs at 50 yards , sounded like I had a suppressor on it and killed rabbits and squirrels with virtually no meat damage other than a 38 cal hole through them.
 
AWS said:
I used to load DEWC 148gr in my 358 Norma Mag over a pinch of shotgun powder. They shot into clover leafs at 50 yards , sounded like I had a suppressor on it and killed rabbits and squirrels with virtually no meat damage other than a 38 cal hole through them.
Click to expand...
Bring a piece of artillery to a pistol shoot 🤣
 
I load .355 bullets in 38spl cases. Same load I use for the light (not minimum but still light) loads in the 158 gr range. I have seen no issue with that setup. Accuracy, power, etc, all good enough for plinking ammo.
 
Bullseye, HP38/W231, 700X, Unique -- all and others not mentioned here are useful on the shelves when you're looking for a magic .38 Special load. Awhile back, one couldn't find small-pistol primers and many powders. However, Bullseye was plentiful. It is one of the best fast-burners for crafting .38 Special, 9mm, and .45 ACP target loads with cast lead bullets. Some talk about how "dirty" it is. It isn't if you pick the right bullets and keep velocities under 900-plus feet per second. As others have said, some copper-plated bullets are challenging with any powder. The plating is not uniform. Some are "double-struck", which helps make them more uniform. Some coated bullets will have the same uniformity problem. I've found some I like to use, however. Some ranges won't let you in with bare cast-lead ammo.

Once you find the components that work, you can always stock up when they're available. Then you can slide through the primer-primer-factory-ammo droughts well. I'm still using .38 Special cases that date from the mid-1980s for cast-bullet reloading.
 
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Interesting article on the barrel sizes. Seems there are a lot of options, so I'll probably keep it simple around here. I can use the 135 gr bullets for 9mm plinking and the lead for 38 special plinking in both weights. I'll put together a few Titegroup rounds, and next time I'm at the store I'll get some HP38 to see if I like it any better on any of the rounds. That should keep me busy with enough supplies for the next couple years. The bullets came with a brick of small pistol primers, so that helps. Thanks for all the insights from those who responded. Maybe I'll get hooked and be doing more hand gunning in the future.
 
One more thing. How can I tell if these bullets are copper plated or jacketed?
 
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