What Would You Do? Full-auto SKS?

[AnthonyRSS]

Its not necessarily full auto, its just broken. I think the danger lies in the probability of someone buying the gun, loading it, and shooting another. I would probably talk to the owner again, and if that doesn't fix it, I would call the BBB.

Anthony

 

[repsychler]

I'd wait until the owner was there, ask to see the SKS and if it hasn't been repaired, call him over. Explain (and show him) whats wrong with it and how that will cause the rifle to go FA. Explain that not only could he end up liable for someone's death, but it could be construed as selling an unregistered MG.
If that doesn't get him to do something about it, he's a fool and he deserves what he gets. I'd go to the local authorities first and then the ATF if there's no action from them.

If this was just a matter of the gun being broken, I could side with the "caveat emptor" folks and just ignore it. But in this case you could be saving someone's life.

 

[ball3006]

Just sounds like a broken SKS....

to me, most probably the trigger group. I have had an SKS run away . It turns out a piece of pierced primer jammed the firing pin and turned the gun into an open bolt gun. Kinda neat. It was a Yugo 59/66 and was very controllable to boot......Tell them you will take that broken SKS off their hands for 150 bucks.....There are trigger group parts around......This is not a FA issue unless you take it to the range and do the "watch this" thing......chris3

 

[Thylacine]

Do you have any friends that are Cops? Bring one with you when you point out to the OWNER the fact that he is trying to sell a possibly dangerous, certainly malfunctioning firearm. Then if he doesn't want to fix it, see if the cop can get it pushed up the food chain. I would not call the BATF&E unless I knew I had tried everything else.

 

[Deanimator]

Just ratting the shop out at first would be wrong. They might not know.

In this case, they DO know. You've TOLD them, and they seem not to care.

I'd go back again and see if it was still there, in the same condition. If it is, then I have no sympathy for the shop owners. At that point, we've gone from an innocent lack of knowledge to negligence/dishonesty. If they don't care if a customer is arrested or INJURED because of the gun, you shouldn't care if the Federal Klan (BATFE) makes their life a hell on earth.

As for the issue of it being a "broken" gun. The BATFE doesn't care in the slightest way. They've arrested COPS who REPORTED doubling guns to them and asked what they should do. The BATFE are degenerate thugs. If the gunshop doesn't take care of the problem, they and F Troop deserve each other.

I believe in giving an honest person a break. If you go back and things haven't changed, they're not honest and deserve only a boot in the behind for endangering an innocent third party's life, health and freedom.

 

[White Horseradish]

Personally, I would try and get a few bucks knocked off because this is a non-functional broken gun and buy it, then check the trigger group fro signs of alteration. If it's been obviously altered, toss the hacked-up parts and buy new ones, otherwise work with what's there.

But then, I am a sucker for junky guns...

 

[Sinsaba]

There's nothing that scares people more than a lawsuit.

What I would do is go back and ask to see the rifle again. If it is still on display I would copy down the serial number. When they ask you why you want the serial number, tell them that when someone buys this gun, is hurt, and ends up suing the shop owner that you intend being a witness to the fact that the shop owner knowingly sold a defective and illegal rifle.

Tell them that you normally don't get involved in other people's affairs but anyone that would sell such a dangerous gun just to make a few dollars profit deserves to lose everything they own and possibly go to jail.

Works every time.

What he said

 

[LiquidTension]

Will an SKS actually go full auto if the hammer rides the bolt down? My FAL does this if you put the selector on the auto setting, but the hammer is slowed down by the bolt and it doesn't have enough inertia to fire a round. Basically it turns it into a manually operated single shot bolt gun.

I saw an Albanian SKS go full auto once - it climbed pretty good before the mag was empty; definitely a safety hazard.

 

[mp510]

Will an SKS actually go full auto if the hammer rides the bolt down? My FAL does this if you put the selector on the auto setting, but the hammer is slowed down by the bolt and it doesn't have enough inertia to fire a round. Basically it turns it into a manually operated single shot bolt gun.

I saw an Albanian SKS go full auto once - it climbed pretty good before the mag was empty; definitely a safety hazard.

Many of the very late Norinco et al (Chinese) made SKS rifles that were imported just prior to the ban were of less than par quality, and internal fire control parts would easily break and send the gun into firing in a manner that could cause "serious problems".

The ATF does prosecute people with broken guns, and they have been beaten though you never really can put your faith in 12 people. Even if you could, the legal fees would be astronomical.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I think you made a mistake in telling her it was unsafe and illegal. I would have tried something like "Lady, if someone loads this and pulls the trigger or simply takes the safety off, the things gonna fire full-auto until it's empty. Probably a cheap fix, and I'd hate to think of the liability if someone with kids loads it at home figuring it'll be as safe as it's supposed to be and it goes full-auto unexpectedly..."

 

[secamp32]

Does your state license gun dealers?

If so I would contact the agency responsible. People willing to sell an unsafe gun like that shouldn't be selling guns.

 

[gezzer]

What a bunch of little atf finks.

The gun is broke it may not even fire in that condition more than 1 round as the hammer follws the bolt down. Grated the shop should have it fixed or marked as broken as-is but turning them in to the police atf what a bunch of chicken @$@$

 

[HSMITH]

No way in heck would I spend my hard earned money on a broken gun just so someone else doesn't end up with it. I can't see the logic in it at all. Sure, I see the emotion and good intentions, but it just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

I have found broken and/or unsafe guns in gunshops, I politely let the staff know of the problem I found and demonstrate if necessary what the problem is. How they deal with that information is up to them. Whether someone buys it in that condition or not isn't my responsibility and it isn't my concern.

People of all sorts and of different mental capacities frequent gunshops. Unless you are known to the staff I would not expect to be taken as an expert any more than the last gun shop commando that just left. To turn someone in to the ATF for not taking me as an expert and immediately removing a gun from the rack just because I said it was broken is beyond my comprehension. I don't see how anyone could do that in good concience. I would NEVER take someone elses livelihood into my hands because they hesitate to take my (a stranger) advise.

 

[silversilvia]

i had a full auto sks once. the firing pin was stuck boy that was a fun 5 round burst.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

The gun is broke it may not even fire in that condition more than 1 round as the hammer follws the bolt down.

Actually, the hammer only falls once the bolt is pushed the last 1/8" of travel to a closed position. The hammer is NOT following the bolt, it's actually breaking free of the disconnect in the last moments of bolt travel.

i had a full auto sks once. the firing pin was stuck boy that was a fun 5 round burst.

It probably would be......until it fired out of battery.

Do you have any friends that are Cops?

I emailed a friend who is a State Trooper and asked his opinion and even offered to demonstrate an SKS's functionability with my Yugo 59/66 if he wants to go check it out for himself. I have not given him the name of the shop....yet.

 

[Auslander]

Guys,

Hammer following bolt DOES NOT EQUAL Full Auto.

You are giving ideas to people who think you can file an AR15 sear and in under 10 minutes "make it go full auto". You assume the rifle will fire until empty just because the hammer followed the bolt down. More likely the gun will not fire at all due to light primer strikes.

The hammer in a closed bolt machinegun only drops once the bolt is at battery. The hammer falls quickly using its mass accelerated by the hammer spring to impact the firing pin and fire the round. The hammer has to hit the pin hard enough to make the primer ‘go bang’. Semi-auto firearms are the same way. The hammer weight and spring force are calculated to give a big enough whack the firing pin to make the primer go bang but not so much as to cause the pin to puncture the primer.

If the hammer ‘rides the bolt down’, most of the energy in the hammer spring is released as the bolt moves forward and only a very light blow, if any, hits the firing pin.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

the hammer will come down every time the bolt is returned to battery

Above is from my very first post. I guess I should have spelled it out a little better for some of you, because the hammer is NOT following the bolt. If this was the case, I wouldn't be as concerned about this. I once left the disconnector spring out of an AR-15 which caused the hammer to follow the bolt. As Auslander states, this does not guarantee that the gun will fire when this happens. As in the case of the missing disconnector spring, the gun did not fire on the second round, but......this SKS is only letting the hammer down somewhere in the last 1/8" or so of travel that the bolt makes to close. I didn't take the gun apart to see how it is doing this, but I specifically remember taking the bolt to within 1/4" of closing and then slowly sliding it forward until the hammer dropped......I did this with my finger OFF the trigger and with the safety in the ON position......in other words, you only have to let the bolt fly forward. The safety and trigger are ineffective, and when the hammer is coming down, I'd bet my next paycheck I can get it to at least double fire.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It is a broken gun.
The shop should have it fixed before selling it.
The ATF does not need to be bothered with a
broken gun in a pawn shop.
Now Chinese freighter Empress Phoenix in Oakland
harbor with a cargo conatiner of 2000 FA AK47s,
THAT is worth drpping a dime over....
but not one broken SKS. Perspective.

 

[repsychler]

HSMITH:
To turn someone in to the ATF for not taking me as an expert and immediately removing a gun from the rack just because I said it was broken is beyond my comprehension. I don't see how anyone could do that in good concience.

And I don't see how anyone can in good conscience just let this slide. I know how I'd feel if a week later I picked up a local paper and read about someone getting hurt/killed by an SKS that went FA. Heck even if no one got hurt, I don't think we need to give the media that kind of "ammo."

I don't expect the owner to take a trangers word as gospel, but if someone showed me how my gun could be dangerously broken, I'd look into it before I sold it to someone else.

 

[ajkurp]

What gezzer said.....

MYOB. Go vote Republican, Or Democrat. Collect your welfare check, Whatever.

 

[444]

What Would You Do?

1) Mind my own business.
2) Not attempt to rat people out on a worldwide forum under any circumstances.

I can't for the life of me understand the motivation behind threads like this. Assuming this is true do you want a pat on the back for being such a gun expert ? Is that why you chose to make this an internationally known thing ? I can't decide which is more arrogant: you sticking your nose in other people's business, or you coming on here telling us you are saving the world from some gun dealer.

Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't know quite as much as you think you do, only now the ATF raids the store and ruins the owners life because you chose to tell everyone on-line what a great guy you are ?
Or, how about this. Everything you say is true. The ATF ruins these people's lives AND gun owners get another black eye with the "news" item about gun stores selling unregistered machine guns.
Thanks, you are doing us all a big favor.

"I'd bet my next paycheck I can get it to at least double fire."
That's big of you. You already bet EVERYTHING that store owner had by shooting your mouth off on the internet to show us how great you are, wagering one of your paychecks is the least you could do. If I could have one wish right now, it would be that the owner of this store reads this and sues you for everything you have (if anything).


This is exactly why I don't vote Democrat. They spend all their time doing what is good for us, all without our consent. The whole time telling us what great guys they are.

 

[ajax]

444 as for as i can tell he never gave the name of the of the shop so how is this guy being told on to the www. Seems your being a little presumptuous by your statement. Also a lack of concern over someones possible well being if they buy this firearm and though dumb as it may be shoot someone on accident. You should try sounding a little more civil you never know you might actually like it ,or are you another one of those guys here that likes to verbally attack out of hand.

 

[444]

I don't think you fully appreciate what we are talking about here.

This isn't some kid telling on another kid so he gets sent to the pricipal's office or so he has to stand in the corner. We are talking about having a tactical team kick in the doors, shoot anyone that they say presented a threat to them, seizing all their assets, putting them in irons and hauling them off to jail. In American law enforcement, there would be few times that more assets and violence would be unleashed on a person than when ATF is doing a raid on someone that MIGHT be selling an unregisted machine gun.The same tactics and force will be used on this guy as would be used on the head of a cocaine cartel. After all the shock and awe, the ATF is then free attempt to prove their case. In this month's SWAT magazine there is a good article about how this is done. If someone is accused of possession or sale of an unregistered automatic weapon, obviously ATF has to prove this was the case. Their rules say that their GUNSMITH can work on the gun for up to EIGHT HOURS and if he can get it to fire full auto, you will be convicted. They have even added parts in teh past and this was considered OK by ATF in making their case. If convicted, this guy loses EVERYTHING and probably does time in prision. None of this is typical internet gun forum speculation, this has been done thousands of time by ATF.
Ever hear of Randy Weaver ? He was accused of selling a short barreled shotgun that was not registered. They shot members of his family and his dogs. They shot his wife while she was holding a baby through the front door of their house. Yes, it was an FBI sniper that fired the shot but the crime he was accused of was an violation of the NFA just like this thread.
Ever hear of the Branch Dividians ? I don't know exactly what was going on there: that isn't the point. The point is that at least ONE of the crimes they were accused of was violation of the NFA. Their home (compound ?) was eventually set on fire and many of them were roasted alive.
So, you tell me, I am being harsh ?
Is making allegations about someone on a worldwide forum with consequnses like this the right thing to do ? Does the alleged crime fit the possible punishement ? Do you feel comfortable sicing a group like this on a guy that MIGHT be selling a gun with a broken part for probably less than $100 ? And are you comfortable doing this because some guy you dont' even know and you have no idea of his experience or expertise said so ? You are comfortable ruining this guys whole life because this gun MIGHT fire full auto and MIGHT be dangerous ? The guy making these accusations has even backed off saying that he bets he can get it to double.
This guy is trying to impress us with his knowlege and get attention. In doing so, he could literally be sentencing someone else to death just so he can get attention.
If none of this got through to you, let me ask you this: How would you like some guy do this to YOU ? What if YOUR doors got kicked in, YOUR assets seized, YOU imprisoned, YOUR business closed, and YOU on the hook for a criminal attorney. How would you like to be facing 10 years in prison and all the rape and violence that entails so you can get out and be a convicted felon trying to make a living: ALL because some guy accused you of something on the internet just because he SAW and briefly handled one of your guns ?
How about asking yourself why this is a crime to begin with. It is a crime only because "they" say it's a crime. This isn't like murder or rape. It isn't robbery. It is just a piece of metal and wood that someone says is illegal. But many on this thread think it is perfectly OK for a guy to lose everything because of it ?


You know, in Germany, in the late 1930s and early 1940s you could turn in a Jew for not wearing the star. After all, it was the law and the government told you everyday that it was being done for your good. If Anne Frank was hiding in the attic, you could probably get a pat on the back as being a good citizen if you turned her in: they could arrest her, her family, and the people's house who she was hiding in. At that time and place that would have been considered your civic duty. It would have not only been the law but it would have been considered your duty. The fact that you would be sentencing someone to a death camp shouldn't bother you at all. After all, they are only Jews.
If you can't see the similarities, I pray for you.
It really worries me that so many gun owners have no concept of what we are dealing with here.

This guy didn't need to know the location or name of the store. I know the location of the guy posting the thread , it is right there for all to see. ATF knows where every gun store around there is: they license them. This might be a big surprise to you, but ATF doesn't even care if they have the right store or if they have the right gun. As mentioned previously, they don't even care if the gun will really fire full auto: if THEY can make it fire full auto, that guy's life is over. It certainly wouldn't be beneath them to go to ANY gun store and railroad the guy based on this "tip" they got off the internet. It has been done before and proven to have been done before in court.

 

[deadin]

Take a witness. Go to shop and, once again, warn them that the gun is unsafe and needs to be repaired before sale.
Send a friend in next day. If gun is still for sale, have him buy it.
Take it home, load it, make sure it is pointed in a direction that can take a little damage.
Drop the bolt. Traumatize your family and friends.
Sue the crap out of the store for pain and suffering, loss of hair and anything else you can think of .
This is assuming that it will go off at all. If the hammer is following the bolt down, there may not be enough of a hit on the pin to set off a primer.

 

[Manedwolf]

Report it. You saw it was dangerously malfunctioning. The lady isn't going to "tell her husband", she could care less. That sort of seller needs to be taken down.

Don't report it: The laws banning it are unconstitutional and should not be enforced.

I take it you don't understand what the issue is. If someone put a full mag in in their home or apartment and slammed the bolt closed, it could very fell just START FIRING on full-auto through walls, kids, people in the next house or other apartments.

Could you live with that on your concience, if you saw "Gun accident kills neighbor" on the evening news?