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What would you do?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Crash_Test_Dhimmi, Jul 24, 2013.

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  1. Crash_Test_Dhimmi

    Crash_Test_Dhimmi Member

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    The following happened in my town last month, this is not a hypothetical.

    You are sitting in a Cracker Barrel, enjoying your breakfast.
    You hear a car accident outside. A car rams another vehicle.
    A hysterical woman enters the restaurant with a tire iron and
    projectile stun gun. She begins assaulting people with the Stun Gun.

    What do you do? The stun gun is "Less than Lethal" does this factor into
    your calculus to draw? If someones weapon is less than lethal can you claim you feared for your life?



    http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-courts/2013-07-23/woman-accused-using-stun-gun-cracker-barrel-denied-bond
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Forget the stun gun.

    I would fear for my and others lives if a crazy woman came in a restaurant with a tire iron in her other hand!!

    rc
     
  3. armsmaster270

    armsmaster270 Member

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    If you can go pepper spray first. If after that she comes at you with the tire Iron or stun gun all bets are off.
     
  4. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    No pepper spray. Pepper spray is inferior force to someone attacking with a tire iron, that implement will likely cause serious bodily injury or death.

    As for whether or not I will draw, I will likely head for the nearest exit. (Through the kitchen is always a good bet.)
     
  5. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    Since I wasn't there, It is a hypothetical question for me. I would say that if you have any doubts as to whether its appropriate to draw,
    Its not appropriate to draw.
    If you did not feel your life or the life of someone else was in danger in an immediate and undeniable sense, it was not appropriate to draw.
    My opinion is most likely influenced in part at least, by the laws pertaining to such situations in my state.
    I don't think it would be looked highly upon to shoot a woman who has nothing more than a stun gun. The tire iron is a different matter.
    From reading the article, it sounds like such actions were unnecessary anyways....in hindsight.
    I will agree with others. Get yourself and your family out of danger if there is opportunity to do so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  6. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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  7. Averageman

    Averageman Member

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  8. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    I would like to think that I can disarm a woman, no matter how many tire-changing implements she has. I'm not being sexist, I'm just picturing the jury deciding if I was justified in punching her or in drawing on her. A flying tackle will suffice in this woman's case.
     
  9. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I would have to have been there to even speculate.

    However, in Florida, one is justified in using force, including deadly force if necessary, to protect not only oneself, but any other innocent person who is believed to be at risk of death or serious bodily injury from an in-progress (or imminent) criminal attack. Some states limit that protection to oneself only.
     
  10. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Unless this woman runs on super charged diesel I tend to agree with Optimus.
     
  11. JAshley73

    JAshley73 Member

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    I haven't read the article, but I think a standard issue wooden cracker barrel chair would be quite the response to a tire-iron, or any other close-contact striking weapon. (Or any other junk they have hung on the wall - old SxS shotgun over he fireplace, or how about some mid-evil farming and woodworking tools perhaps... :) ) Maybe it comes from working with my hands and tools my whole life, but when a challenge presets itself, whatever it may be, my eyes begin scanning for the nearest "tools" lying around. By this point, it's instinctual for me. I would imagine encountering a situation like this, my initial response would be a quick scan to see what I could grab quickly, and put that between me and an attacker.

    I really don't think a stun-gun and tire iron would get past someone with a stout wooden chair, and the motive of protecting their family and other innocents.
     
  12. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the folks at the Cracker Barrel handled it pretty reasonably.
     
  13. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    I'm gonna be 50 in 6 months (G* willing and the creek don't rise), not gonna go head to head with anyone wielding a tire iron, regardless of whether I have a chair or table leg. It's pepper spray the nut job and get the heck out of the way. Yes, I always carry pepper spray. Shooting the nut job is just not worth the paperwork and legal fees, unless she was coming after me or someone I give a crap about.
     
  14. leprechaun50

    leprechaun50 Member

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    A tire iron can be a lethal weapon, and a stun gun is to many people a lethal weapon also. I have an ICD so one jolt from a stun gun could easily be lights out for me.
    That being said, I wouldn't consider shooting as a first option in this case. It sounds like there were an assortment of other weapons available that could have been used to subdue her.
     
  15. DNS

    DNS Member

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    Pepper spray the living crap out of her.
     
  16. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    The only logical thing to do would be to start the video camera.
     
  17. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Crash, a couple of questions/points:

    You might want to rethink your defensive mindset, or at least how you verbalize it. This could easily be reworded to something like: "If I've always wanted to shoot someone, could I have chosen this woman at this point in time then later claim I feared for my life and thereby avoid jail time?"

    How many able-bodied people (I'm tempted to say "men") were present when the assailant entered and began her tirade? If more than two, and they allowed her attack to continue, then they were borderline cowards.

    The article says the local coroner and a deputy were able to subdue her, and that someone else had already taken away the tire crowbar. Did the deputy use his sidearm? There is no indication of that. It sure doesn't sound like this lady needed shooting to compel her to stop being a threat.

    So why would I have needed to use mine?
     
  18. Skyshot

    Skyshot Member

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    Ask for coffee refill.
     
  19. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    There has to be plenty of stuff in a Cracker Barrel to bash her with, I can't say this was a shooting scenario.
     
  20. Eldraque

    Eldraque Member

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    Whats to say she doesnt just stun gun you and take your gun?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
     
  21. 40-82

    40-82 Member

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    Run? If you do you can spend the rest of your life congratulating yourself on your sophistication. If you have a shred of decency it won't work. You've just proven to yourself that you're a coward. Or you could simply put your front sight on her center of mass and drill her. As likely in a crowded Cracker Barrel, you can expect to take out somebody behind her. If you do present your weapon, I don't like your chances with the legal system, and you can forget a coffee refill.

    If it were me, I'd pick up one of those heavy wooden chairs or a farm implement off the wall. I think that short little pudgy girl faced with someone of my size and my deepest growl would drop the tire iron and the stun gun and cry or run away--if she ran I'd let her go. If she chose to fight, I'd take my chances against her any day, rather than face what I know would happen to me in the legal system if I used a pistol. If I won, I'd get my coffee refill, but since Cracker Barrel is a corporation, there is no chance that they would comp me breakfast.
     
  22. skoro

    skoro Member

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    Being a corporation, CB might be inclined to go after you for damages. :uhoh:

    No good deed goes unpunished, especially in this era of armies of corporate attorneys.
     
  23. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Not likely. Given the scenario presented, she'd never get close enough to stun me.

    I stand firmly by my previous post--the people in the restaurant had a responsibility to look after their own wellbeing. It remains unclear exactly how well they carried that out--apparently some simply ran away--but clearly there was some "average citizen" response involved in the perp's being subdued. That's how it ought to work.
     
  24. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    I think in this instance the nearest chair is your best option to keeping this person at bay until someone else could subdue them from behind.
     
  25. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    1) Move my family out the nearest exit in the direction opposite of (or 90 deg. to) the assailant's path. Secure their retreat by placing myself between them and the assailant and moving with them. (This assumes that the assailant has no immediate direct interest in me, or in us.)

    2) Observe as much as possible to determine exactly what is happening, and to what extent. A crazy person firing off a taser (which doesn't usually have more than two shots capacity) and swinging a tire-iron in a wild fashion might warrant a wait and see approach. A crazy person tasing someone and then purposefully setting out to execute them with blunt force trauma via tire iron might, maybe, illicit another approach. That approach could conceivably be a gunshot. But would more likely be some other sort of distracting/wounding mechanism. If she's not actually in the act of killing anyone then trying to let some time pass for the guys in blue (with the tasers and handcuffs) to get there would be far better than anything else.
     
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