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What would you have done ?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by cyanide, Aug 22, 2006.

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  1. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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  2. bigcim

    bigcim Member

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    let my dogs out
     
  3. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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    She could have taken pictures from the road

    cop was negligent in his duties allowing her to do what she did.
     
  4. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    I would have made several copies of the tape, locked up the original securely, and called the best attorney I could afford.
     
  5. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    In which role?

    It appears the health inspector was not aware of her options and was expecting the presence of an armed deputy would solve her dilemma. The deputy wasn't familiar with the law the health inspector was attempting to enforce and therefore couldn't help her.

    It looks to me the homeowner was doing just fine. If the deputy decided to throw his weight around, it would have been a good idea for the homeowner to go along while voicing his protest loudly.

    I didn't see the entire eight + minutes. The tape quit after about three minutes.

    I went down this road once with a fire battalion chief who demanded I arrest a home resident who didn't want a contractor to enter his property and disc under weeds in compliance with a fire prevention ordinance. The battalion chief couldn't provide the ordinance he wanted me to arrest under and was unwilling to make the arrest himself.

    Pilgrim
     
  6. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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    I have been down this road may a time

    Mental heath workers wanted me to pink slip a eccentric , and I would not

    not unless they were a threat of harm to themselves or others.

    Being different isn't against the law or wrong in America, they all hated me. I would tell them to go to court and have them probated if they thought I was wrong.

    Note: they never did.

    Cops got to think for themselves and do what is right, not side with other agencies just because they are a government agency.

    Least I did.
     
  7. Wastemore

    Wastemore Member

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    Continue protesting in a non-violent manor and get a good attorney.

    Problem is, the courts tend to protect public officials.
     
  8. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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    Because the Judges have lost the way, not seeking justice, but trying to keep political ties strong and keep government working for the politicians not the people.
     
  9. highdesert

    highdesert Member

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    Frustrating

    Arrrggghhh that was frustrating to watch. Hopefully the guy prevails in court. Of course the taxpayers of Indiana will foot the bill. If bureaucrats were held personally liable for their actions they might worry more about staying on the right side of the law.

    Edit to add: letting dogs out probably would result in OC'ed or shot dogs. No good options other than a video camera.
     
  10. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Move the thread to legal and political is what I'll do, this is off topic here.

    Jeff
     
  11. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    In the comment section of the video, the cameraman said that no lawyer would touch it and he's out of luck. No one will help him.


    He also said that the reason she was there is because someone called in on him. The reason they called in on him? Because he outbid them on the land.


    That's what warrants are for.
     
  12. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    Thats absolutely frustrating to watch. That woman obviously was either ignorant of the law, or terribly arrogant (or both).

    And I hate it when people pull the line "If you have nothing to hide, you wont mind". Like the guy said on the video, thats not the point. Its a matter of principle.

    It really sucks that people are treated as criminals because they wish to exercise their rights. The government hates that, because it requires them to actually do their job, instead of conceding and giving them the easy way out.
     
  13. joab

    joab Member

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    The only picture she would have gotten would have been of my face or butt.
     
  14. jashobeam

    jashobeam Member

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    Could someone explain what happens in the tape?

    I can only get it to play for 2 minutes, 21 seconds; then it freezes.
     
  15. Liberal Gun Nut

    Liberal Gun Nut Member

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    Wow.

    First, the guy IS in fact a nut. However, even nuts have rights and the law protects nuts.

    He would have been totally fine using reasonable force to remove her from the property. It was trespassing. He showed restraint.

    I hope he does have a good lawyer because I think he could bust her for trespassing, etc.

    In his situation I would have called the police and complained of trespassing I guess.
     
  16. Wastemore

    Wastemore Member

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    I'm not sure why he didn't request the deputy place her under citizens arrest for tresspassing.
     
  17. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Those studied in the Law feel free to interject and correct my errors. :D
    One word. Curtilage.

    I've not the references on hand at the moment, but as I recall only the area immediately around one's home is considered "Sacrosanct" with respect to the 4th amendment protection against "unreasonable" searches. That is the curtilage around your home. Outside of that, government agents are free to roam at will across one's property. :scrutiny: Something to do with the right of free passage w/o ill intent and such.

    Unfortunately, even that looks to have forgoten these days...

    Even with that sad fact in mind, I'd 'prolly do my best to ensnarl that harridan of a civil servant in a gnarly mass of red tape and legal manoeuvring. Swear out a complaint of trespass. Deputy Doughboy as well if he refused to hear my complaint against the employee of my servant.

    Beyond that, well....
     
  18. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Before everyone starts screaming that the fourth amendment is dead, I suggest someone figure out where this happened and check the laws and what powers health inspectors have.

    In many cases the law that created the health department (or other regulatory agency for that matter) also empowered the agents of said agency to enter private property without a warrant (usually as long as it's at a reasonable hour) to conduct compliance inspections. In other words, you can't keep em out.

    I'm not saying it's right, but it might be legal. And you'd certainly lose any action you started and get your fourth amendment violation argument laughed out of court.

    Everyone from health department inspectors to animal control officers, to fire and housing authority inspectors has the power to enter without a warrant in most places.

    Jeff
     
  19. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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    As a former LEO

    I have found laws are pretty much similar throughout the country

    true there are some differences , but for the most part some things like the US Constitution on search and seizure can not be vetoed by a State Law.

    What rights a person may have are already spelled out in the Constitution,
    yes that pesky document that all JBT hate .

    I may be wrong though the country is changing so much so fast, and not for the good ?
     
  20. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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    Not so

    they have the right to enter private property for public use like that ie: malls

    But not private property ie: homes.
     
  21. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    cyanide,
    You're wrong. The administrative branches of our government have all kinds of powers that go beyond what the 4th amendment allows people in criminal justice. Here are some examples from Illinois:
    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...apterName=ANIMALS&ActName=Animal+Control+Act.
    From the Animal Control Act:
    Here the only restriction is the residence itself. There are all kinds of things that are regulated in these various codes, everything from septic tank systems to storage of flammables to annual inspections of subsidized housing. All of these codes permit those who are charged with enforcing them access to private property without a warrant. A no trespassing sign and the fourth amendment is not going to keep the health department or the EPA out of your backyard to check your septic system. It's not going to keep the the animal control people from checking barns, sheds and out buildings. It's not going to keep the city or county code enforcement officer from checking to see if the old car you intend on restoring is properly licensed while it sits next to your garage. If you live in subsidized housing, it's not going to keep the HUD people out when they do their annual inspections. Check your state and local administrative codes, you might be shocked by how little privacy you have.

    I had no idea until I was called to assist the county animal control officer on a call where he was picking up some neglected and abused dogs. I told him I didn't think we could enter a shed to pick up some puppies (they were living in their own filth and had no food or water), he showed me the part of the law I posted above.

    Jeff
     
  22. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    I would have physically removed her from the property.
     
  23. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    He would have been more successfull had he kept a level head.

    That being said, nothing prevents him from physically barring her from accessing his property. not hitting or pushing, but just standing in such a way as to block her access.
     
  24. cyanide

    cyanide Member

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    Here the only restriction is the residence itself.

    I see what you mean about the land -------



    If you in fact ask them to leave that is a whole new ball of wax though.

    It is like if I come to your door and ask to use the phone because I am broke down near you

    that is not against the law

    but if you instruct me to leave and I don't that is a criminal violation.

    Same for them.
     
  25. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    No offense Mr White, but I think you were wrong.

    No where in the snippet you cited does it grant any power to any government agent to come into private premises except in the cases specifically mentioned.

    The dogs were not stray, dangerous or vicious, nor did anyone think they were rabid.

    BTW, I do not have a major issue with animal control coming by to pick up a stray that might have wandered into my yard. It seems like a reasonable thing. Even poking around an outbuilding or two looking for a rabid animal seems reasonable.
     
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