What would you have done ?
- Thread starter cyanide
- Start date
- Status
Ginger
Member
I've worked in the environmental side of public health for a number of years. Depending on the jurisdiction, public health officers really do have wide powers. Much wider than the average citizen realizes.
Whether or not the complaint call was motivated by spite, it looks as though the inspector is making sure that the leach field or septic system is okay. That looks like an area that might use well water for human consumption. A sewage problem would not necessarily be restricted to the guy's own property by any means. That stuff can and does travel. A contaminated well is a very big deal. Not only is it a public health problem but the families with contamination have to pay for bottled water for all their needs.
I don't know the law in that jurisdiction enough to comment on the legality but it would be within our powers to investigate that in my state.
Whether or not the complaint call was motivated by spite, it looks as though the inspector is making sure that the leach field or septic system is okay. That looks like an area that might use well water for human consumption. A sewage problem would not necessarily be restricted to the guy's own property by any means. That stuff can and does travel. A contaminated well is a very big deal. Not only is it a public health problem but the families with contamination have to pay for bottled water for all their needs.
I don't know the law in that jurisdiction enough to comment on the legality but it would be within our powers to investigate that in my state.
ilbob,
Sorry I posted the wrong citatation. Here is the correct one for that circumstance:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...=ANIMALS&ActName=Humane+Care+for+Animals+Act.
As you can see, only a residence is protected. My point is that there are all kinds of administrative laws that require a person to give everyone from the health department to the EPA access to your property so they can conduct compliance inspections. A no trespassing sign and a fence won't keep them out. Starting a confrontation over things like this is most likely only going to get you in trouble with the law. If you feel the inspector is being unfair you need to fight in the courts. This isn't the kind of battle you're going to win on the ground. Fight it in court. That's where these issues are settled.
Jeff
Sorry I posted the wrong citatation. Here is the correct one for that circumstance:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...=ANIMALS&ActName=Humane+Care+for+Animals+Act.
As you can see, only a residence is protected. My point is that there are all kinds of administrative laws that require a person to give everyone from the health department to the EPA access to your property so they can conduct compliance inspections. A no trespassing sign and a fence won't keep them out. Starting a confrontation over things like this is most likely only going to get you in trouble with the law. If you feel the inspector is being unfair you need to fight in the courts. This isn't the kind of battle you're going to win on the ground. Fight it in court. That's where these issues are settled.
Jeff
Fighting it in court is a loser for the average citizen.
So you go to court. You cannot possibly win. If the government was wrong, they will just plain lie about it. The judge will accept their side without question every time, absent a video tape or some secret memo that is leaked admitting what actually happened.
On top of that you lose time from work and pay for legal bills. The government has an infinite amount of money to pay for legal bills taken from the taxpayer at the point of a gun, and the government employees involved are being paid to go to court.
Realistically, you have no options in these kind of cases except to submit to an unconstitutional search and seizure. And there is no redress.
Voters need to rebel at the ballot box.
So you go to court. You cannot possibly win. If the government was wrong, they will just plain lie about it. The judge will accept their side without question every time, absent a video tape or some secret memo that is leaked admitting what actually happened.
On top of that you lose time from work and pay for legal bills. The government has an infinite amount of money to pay for legal bills taken from the taxpayer at the point of a gun, and the government employees involved are being paid to go to court.
Realistically, you have no options in these kind of cases except to submit to an unconstitutional search and seizure. And there is no redress.
Voters need to rebel at the ballot box.
Father Knows Best
Member
Hmmm ... I wonder why I win so often in court then, especially when I'm up against government agencies?
This situation is best described by the quote:
I found it telling that the inspector refused to identify herself...evidence that she knew what she was doing was wrong, if not illegal. Imagine reversing the roles, and a mere citizen identifying themselves with a first name and an initial, when commanded to by a government agent. How would that fly? Our more strident LE members would immediately establish PC/RS based on that fact alone. Curiously, the deputy seemed to overlook this attitude when demonstrated by a fellow government agent!
Ginger posted:
This typical scenario for bureaucrats follows what I call the 90/10 rule. About 10% of their activity is aimed at their core mission, in this case "making sure things are OK", i.e., from a water safety standpoint. The other 90% is aimed at expanding their power, budget, revenue and control over citizens. As such, they have grown to be parasites on society, in recent decades.
Read the body language of this inspector. She was obviously trying to build a prosecution against the landowner, rather than help him comply with any regs that might apply to repairing a septic system. Helpful is the last word I'd use to describe her attitude.
We had a situation recently on the farm of a friend/client of mine. The inspector trespassed past a locked gate onto the farm , after waiting down the road for the homeowners to leave in the morning. He then proceeded to wander the property and into outbuildings, taking pictures for "evidence". When confronted by immigrant farm employees, he flashed an ID and said "policia!"; and the terrified employees prompty scattered. Fortunately, one of the homeowners was also a senior deputy, and when the inspector later returned to serve the "citation" for stupid minor infractions (like mosquito violations, and non-farm use of a barn???), a uniformed deputy was waiting, and threatened to arrest the inspector for felony impersonation of a police officer. I was there, the inspector about had a stroke, when confronted with handcuffs!! Long story short, the dispute escalated to the senior parasites in county government, who have been harassing the homeowners for months to "teach these folks a lesson" (we also have a mole in one of the offices).
The whole event was a great civics lesson in modern government excess.
I found it telling that the inspector refused to identify herself...evidence that she knew what she was doing was wrong, if not illegal. Imagine reversing the roles, and a mere citizen identifying themselves with a first name and an initial, when commanded to by a government agent. How would that fly? Our more strident LE members would immediately establish PC/RS based on that fact alone. Curiously, the deputy seemed to overlook this attitude when demonstrated by a fellow government agent!
Ginger posted:
This typical scenario for bureaucrats follows what I call the 90/10 rule. About 10% of their activity is aimed at their core mission, in this case "making sure things are OK", i.e., from a water safety standpoint. The other 90% is aimed at expanding their power, budget, revenue and control over citizens. As such, they have grown to be parasites on society, in recent decades.
Read the body language of this inspector. She was obviously trying to build a prosecution against the landowner, rather than help him comply with any regs that might apply to repairing a septic system. Helpful is the last word I'd use to describe her attitude.
We had a situation recently on the farm of a friend/client of mine. The inspector trespassed past a locked gate onto the farm , after waiting down the road for the homeowners to leave in the morning. He then proceeded to wander the property and into outbuildings, taking pictures for "evidence". When confronted by immigrant farm employees, he flashed an ID and said "policia!"; and the terrified employees prompty scattered. Fortunately, one of the homeowners was also a senior deputy, and when the inspector later returned to serve the "citation" for stupid minor infractions (like mosquito violations, and non-farm use of a barn???), a uniformed deputy was waiting, and threatened to arrest the inspector for felony impersonation of a police officer. I was there, the inspector about had a stroke, when confronted with handcuffs!! Long story short, the dispute escalated to the senior parasites in county government, who have been harassing the homeowners for months to "teach these folks a lesson" (we also have a mole in one of the offices).
The whole event was a great civics lesson in modern government excess.
Nitrogen
Member
ginger said:
If it's that big of a deal, I figure the inspector can get a warrant pretty quickly.
Desk Jockey
Member
IANAL, this is just my layman's opinion...
If the owner was constructing or repairing a septic system (as he appeared to be), then he probably needed a permit to do so. The permit would state that the health department has the right to enter the property for inspection purposes.
If he was doing so without a permit, then the health department should either notify him of the alleged violation and request an inspection, or document the appearance of a violation and obtain a warrant or take other legal action. I would bet that documentation of an apparent violation would need to be obtained without entering the guy's property if he has it posted. Like photos from the road or from the neighboring property.
I'm pretty sure that he's within his rights to refuse entry, and both the inspector and the deputy deserve failing marks for job performance.
However, there's an excellent chance that he was performing work without a required permit. That would explain why no attorney will take his case. He was probably in violation himself, and he can show no injury caused by the inspector's violation.
I'm pretty sure that you can't shoot someone for trespassing unless they pose a threat of great bodily harm to you or another person.
If the owner was constructing or repairing a septic system (as he appeared to be), then he probably needed a permit to do so. The permit would state that the health department has the right to enter the property for inspection purposes.
If he was doing so without a permit, then the health department should either notify him of the alleged violation and request an inspection, or document the appearance of a violation and obtain a warrant or take other legal action. I would bet that documentation of an apparent violation would need to be obtained without entering the guy's property if he has it posted. Like photos from the road or from the neighboring property.
I'm pretty sure that he's within his rights to refuse entry, and both the inspector and the deputy deserve failing marks for job performance.
However, there's an excellent chance that he was performing work without a required permit. That would explain why no attorney will take his case. He was probably in violation himself, and he can show no injury caused by the inspector's violation.
I'm pretty sure that you can't shoot someone for trespassing unless they pose a threat of great bodily harm to you or another person.
I forget which state it is, maybe MA or NJ, it is technically illegal for a home owner to change a light bulb without first getting a permit.
Government meddling brought to you courtesy of your favorite electrical contractors and the electricians union. Amazing what some campaign contributions can get you.
Government meddling brought to you courtesy of your favorite electrical contractors and the electricians union. Amazing what some campaign contributions can get you.
Ed Ames
Member
Inspector had an attitude because the homeowner had run her off the day before. The guy was a nutcase but nutcases have rights too... OTOH he was probably plumbing without a permit/out of code and I don't believe the "I outbid _____ so they reported me for spite" thing for a moment.
Personally, I would've tried to chat her up the first day... as in friendly and hopefully charming, trying my best to drag her over to see the clean-up work I was doing and to show off my front end loader... would've asked her if the state/county code on grey water recycling and composting toilets and who the best firms in the area are to do plumbing and septic system work... but then again I flat don't see the point in breaking the sort of laws she is there to enforce and if there was a violation I'd want to know about it more than she would.
Then again I've dealt with county employees before... they tend to be tin-pot despots who get their backs up and go ballistic with the slightest provocation... the only way of dealing with them is as friends or at the other end of a lawyer. He didn't have a lawyer with him, so he should've at least tried the friendly side. It works with most people.
When it come to the rights issues... you can see a lot from orbit (look up your house on one of the sat. photo sites... the county can do the same) or an airplane... and you have no right to stop anybody from doing either... and for that matter the courts have decided that police can use photographic techniques that allow them to gather information through your house walls (passive IR imaging) as long as they do it from the street... so if you really want privacy you've got to keep your doings inside control both access and emissions... that means walls, gates, locks, concrete -- real protections, not signs that people can walk past.
Those who said there should have been violence against the officer(s) (here and in the comments on the video) are idiots... nobody would've sided with the landowner and he'd be screwed (if he was inept) or potentially looking at life or death (if he actually killed them) and having no fun either way.
Personally, I would've tried to chat her up the first day... as in friendly and hopefully charming, trying my best to drag her over to see the clean-up work I was doing and to show off my front end loader... would've asked her if the state/county code on grey water recycling and composting toilets and who the best firms in the area are to do plumbing and septic system work... but then again I flat don't see the point in breaking the sort of laws she is there to enforce and if there was a violation I'd want to know about it more than she would.
Then again I've dealt with county employees before... they tend to be tin-pot despots who get their backs up and go ballistic with the slightest provocation... the only way of dealing with them is as friends or at the other end of a lawyer. He didn't have a lawyer with him, so he should've at least tried the friendly side. It works with most people.
When it come to the rights issues... you can see a lot from orbit (look up your house on one of the sat. photo sites... the county can do the same) or an airplane... and you have no right to stop anybody from doing either... and for that matter the courts have decided that police can use photographic techniques that allow them to gather information through your house walls (passive IR imaging) as long as they do it from the street... so if you really want privacy you've got to keep your doings inside control both access and emissions... that means walls, gates, locks, concrete -- real protections, not signs that people can walk past.
Those who said there should have been violence against the officer(s) (here and in the comments on the video) are idiots... nobody would've sided with the landowner and he'd be screwed (if he was inept) or potentially looking at life or death (if he actually killed them) and having no fun either way.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
no lawyer
likes to defend a nutcase. they make poor witnesses.
his bbest shot woulda been to fall down convulsing during her raid. and have some other witnesses.some inspectors can be a trip. i had a health dept guy write me for not handling a food product properly. i asked him what the product was. he couldn't tell me. i asked him if you don't know what i is how can you tell if i'm handling it properly... he didn't get it but his boss did.if he was outside permitting they usually serve a stop work order. then you can get nailed if you don't comply.
near where i live we have mcmansions springup next to lil shacks. the rich folks like to clean up the hood. there was a lil black lady living in a tiny place that was deeded to her by the original property owners for the rest of her life(it then went to hoa) the slimeball next door hated her so when after a real bad rainy spell her drain field was not up to snuff he called the healrh dept. the threatened to condem her property and denied her a new permit for a new drainfield on a technicality.
at the time i worked for aan old redneck who was extremely non pc in a racial way. however we had worked on her house while she was nanny for the original large property owners. when ray heard we waited till saturady loaded up took backhoe dumptuck full of gravel some pipe and 6 pallets of sod to her house by saturday nite there was a new drainfield and a brand new sod lawn over it. when they showed up monday for followup inspection and to condemn her place everything worked fine. and not a thing they could do to prove what we had done. they aren't allowed to tear up the sod or destroy anything. the lil twit did run everysink in house as well as flush toilet a bunch of times with some kinda dye in it . loved busting her chops.she did fail our next plumbing job twice but it was worth it.got lil sis to write her boss a lawyer letter after second fail and we never got an inspection from her again
likes to defend a nutcase. they make poor witnesses.
his bbest shot woulda been to fall down convulsing during her raid. and have some other witnesses.some inspectors can be a trip. i had a health dept guy write me for not handling a food product properly. i asked him what the product was. he couldn't tell me. i asked him if you don't know what i is how can you tell if i'm handling it properly... he didn't get it but his boss did.if he was outside permitting they usually serve a stop work order. then you can get nailed if you don't comply.
near where i live we have mcmansions springup next to lil shacks. the rich folks like to clean up the hood. there was a lil black lady living in a tiny place that was deeded to her by the original property owners for the rest of her life(it then went to hoa) the slimeball next door hated her so when after a real bad rainy spell her drain field was not up to snuff he called the healrh dept. the threatened to condem her property and denied her a new permit for a new drainfield on a technicality.
at the time i worked for aan old redneck who was extremely non pc in a racial way. however we had worked on her house while she was nanny for the original large property owners. when ray heard we waited till saturady loaded up took backhoe dumptuck full of gravel some pipe and 6 pallets of sod to her house by saturday nite there was a new drainfield and a brand new sod lawn over it. when they showed up monday for followup inspection and to condemn her place everything worked fine. and not a thing they could do to prove what we had done. they aren't allowed to tear up the sod or destroy anything. the lil twit did run everysink in house as well as flush toilet a bunch of times with some kinda dye in it . loved busting her chops.she did fail our next plumbing job twice but it was worth it.got lil sis to write her boss a lawyer letter after second fail and we never got an inspection from her again
A farmer not far from here got a violation a few years back. They claimed his outhouse was not up to code. Did not care about the 200 pigs that did their thing out in the open about 100 feet away.
Tin pot despots is often the right term.
Tin pot despots is often the right term.
In another time...
When I lived in backcountry Klickitat County, WA, they used to send newbie building inspectors out on roving missions looking for violations. The exchange went something like:
Inspector: "Excuse me sir, do you have a building permit for that workshop?"
Homeowner: "Why yes son, right over there (points to spent 12 gauge shotgun shell tacked to a fence post). Would you like to see another one?"
Inspector: "That'll be fine. If you have any questions contact the office."
The new structure might be noted for future tax purposes. The point is both sides had more respect for private property, and the inspectors knew when to back off. If Jim-Bob's shop collapsed under a heavy snow, that would be his own fault. It never did.
Given a few more years, and building inspectors will have their own dedicated tactical support squads. And a certain segment of society will see this as perfectly appropriate...after all, they're breaking the law (without a question about the absurdity of the law).
When I lived in backcountry Klickitat County, WA, they used to send newbie building inspectors out on roving missions looking for violations. The exchange went something like:
Inspector: "Excuse me sir, do you have a building permit for that workshop?"
Homeowner: "Why yes son, right over there (points to spent 12 gauge shotgun shell tacked to a fence post). Would you like to see another one?"
Inspector: "That'll be fine. If you have any questions contact the office."
The new structure might be noted for future tax purposes. The point is both sides had more respect for private property, and the inspectors knew when to back off. If Jim-Bob's shop collapsed under a heavy snow, that would be his own fault. It never did.
Given a few more years, and building inspectors will have their own dedicated tactical support squads. And a certain segment of society will see this as perfectly appropriate...after all, they're breaking the law (without a question about the absurdity of the law).
hammer4nc said;
Absurdity of the law? Do you think that laws setting standards for septic systems are absurd? Do you like cholera? 
Let's just eliminate all the public health laws. After all what's a cholera epidemic compared to the unconstitutional invasion of privacy by having septic and sewer systems inspected?
Jeff
Absurdity of the law? Do you think that laws setting standards for septic systems are absurd?
Do you like cholera? Let's just eliminate all the public health laws. After all what's a cholera epidemic compared to the unconstitutional invasion of privacy by having septic and sewer systems inspected?Jeff
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Jeff,
I don't like cholera. About as much as I don't like politicians drafting law and policy that do end runs around due process and the Constitution.
The ends don't justify the means. Sure, citizen, you can build the house we allow you to build on the land we'll allow you to 'own' as long you pay us rent-er-I meant taxes. But you have to agree not to bring up that pesky Constitution if we give you the building permit. It's for the greatest good of the greatest number, of course.
Once government is allowed to begin playing games with what is constitutionally allowed...where will the government stop? The historical record indicates that a government will not stop once it heads down that road until it is made to stop by force.
Seems to be it would be better for all parties concerned not to let the government get too far down that road to begin with.
I'll stipulate that the bureaucrats and legislators who felt the necessity to avoid those pesky warrants and court orders were doing so for high and noble reasons having only the public welfare as their single goal.
I have no confidence whatsoever that the bureaucrats and legislators who follow these high minded souls will not misuse and abuse these bright new toys.
Those laws that let the inspector for this and that search the buildings on a piece of property without a warrant as long as it is not a residence? All you have to do to get away from that pesky warrant business there is to come up with a definition for residence where most homes don't qualify as residences. Simple solution for the right type of mind...that's not a residence-that's just where you live so I don't need a warrant to search it.
I don't like cholera. About as much as I don't like politicians drafting law and policy that do end runs around due process and the Constitution.
The ends don't justify the means. Sure, citizen, you can build the house we allow you to build on the land we'll allow you to 'own' as long you pay us rent-er-I meant taxes. But you have to agree not to bring up that pesky Constitution if we give you the building permit. It's for the greatest good of the greatest number, of course.
Once government is allowed to begin playing games with what is constitutionally allowed...where will the government stop? The historical record indicates that a government will not stop once it heads down that road until it is made to stop by force.
Seems to be it would be better for all parties concerned not to let the government get too far down that road to begin with.
I'll stipulate that the bureaucrats and legislators who felt the necessity to avoid those pesky warrants and court orders were doing so for high and noble reasons having only the public welfare as their single goal.
I have no confidence whatsoever that the bureaucrats and legislators who follow these high minded souls will not misuse and abuse these bright new toys.
Those laws that let the inspector for this and that search the buildings on a piece of property without a warrant as long as it is not a residence? All you have to do to get away from that pesky warrant business there is to come up with a definition for residence where most homes don't qualify as residences. Simple solution for the right type of mind...that's not a residence-that's just where you live so I don't need a warrant to search it.
No reason the inspector can't go visit a judge on his way and convince the judge first.
The problem with your response is that the overwhelming majority of building code violations are not things that are a threat to anyone, much less an immediate threat like a rabid dog on someone's property is.
ilbob said;
Oh yeah that would work...How many more judges are you willing to fund so that we have enough to issue warrants everytime the health department needs to do an inspection? We're turning criminals loose and throwing perfectly good cases into the trash can everyday because we don't have enough courtrooms, judges, prosecutors and public defenders to handle the case load and you want to add more to it....
The problem with that response is that this thread deals with a septic system which no one can deny is in fact a public health issue. I'll concede that the building code is chock full of requirements that have more to due with employing trade union members then they do with health or safety. However, no one can deny that septic systems are an immediate threat to public health, especially in a rural area where drinking water comes from wells.
There has to be some balance between the public's interest and the individual's interest. I wonder how many members who think the homeowner in the video is having his rights trampled on would feel the same way if he was their next door neighbor and he was possibly contaminating the well they drink from?
Jeff
Oh yeah that would work...How many more judges are you willing to fund so that we have enough to issue warrants everytime the health department needs to do an inspection? We're turning criminals loose and throwing perfectly good cases into the trash can everyday because we don't have enough courtrooms, judges, prosecutors and public defenders to handle the case load and you want to add more to it....
The problem with that response is that this thread deals with a septic system which no one can deny is in fact a public health issue. I'll concede that the building code is chock full of requirements that have more to due with employing trade union members then they do with health or safety. However, no one can deny that septic systems are an immediate threat to public health, especially in a rural area where drinking water comes from wells.
There has to be some balance between the public's interest and the individual's interest. I wonder how many members who think the homeowner in the video is having his rights trampled on would feel the same way if he was their next door neighbor and he was possibly contaminating the well they drink from?
Jeff
EVIL5LITER
Member
In our day and time, that doesn't work. I had a friend of mine who's father was fighting tooth and nail against the city of Opelika, the Sherriff, the county, the state, etc. and had the same circumstances. He lived 150 miles away from Opelika. He called a woman that was a witness to the events in question (A hit and run that his son was falsely accused of) to ask her a few questions. The woman was a government employee and reported the incident to the DA, the DA called it harassment over phone lines, and they sent a deputy 150 miles to arrest him for a misdemeanor and drive him back in front of the judge. Then the judge sentenced him to 90 days in jail with bond being set at $100,000 dollars for a MISDEMEANOR. He spent 90 days in jail in a hellhole all because they wanted him to drop the case so bad.
The outcome? After he spent thousands and thousands of dollars and the state/city/county/police dept. kept covering up all of the mistakes they had made, he eventually gave up after six years of fighting it because he realized they would never, ever let it go to trial in front of a impartial judge/jury.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You cannot fight the government in a court that they control. When it comes to fighting the government, there is no such thing as justice in a court of law.
Zundfolge
Member
Yeah, upholding the Constitution and the rights of the people is just too expensive and difficult ... lets just throw it all out the window.Oh yeah that would work...How many more judges are you willing to fund so that we have enough to issue warrants everytime the health department needs to do an inspection? We're turning criminals loose and throwing perfectly good cases into the trash can everyday because we don't have enough courtrooms, judges, prosecutors and public defenders to handle the case load and you want to add more to it....
I'd be willing to bet that in 90%+ of the cases, simply asking if they can come on the property would result in the property owner letting them come in. However once the property owner invokes his rights by refusing than they need to get a warrant and if they can't then they need to bugger off and find someone else to harass.
There is already in place a balance between the public's interests and the individual's interests, and that balance is Mr or Mrs bureaucrat has to get a judge to sign off on a warrant based on probable cause before they can trump the rights of an individual citizen. Its a pretty good system that works better then just giving the Health Department Gendarmes free reign to ignore the basic rights our nation was founded upon.
Abrogation of our liberties simply for the sake of expedience is no less evil than abrogation of liberties to forward the cause of tyranny.
This guy's been condemned, he's selling his place on ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlawfully-cond...18247410QQihZ013QQcategoryZ1607QQcmdZViewItem
Up for auction is a beautiful 2 plus acre parcel of land with a small pond, 2 bedroom trailer ( which needs work) , shed and other out buildings with power water and septic. All located in occupied Springfield township Laporte County Indiana. Just look at the Laporte county commissioner's web site and you will see that right on the front page they claim their duties are to "REGULATE BEHAVIOR IN LAPORTE COUNTY" for real. and they sure do just that; or use taxpayer monies to terrorise, evict and condemn private property after tresspassing on it. ANYWAY, the property is about a 5 minute drive to the beautiful shore of lake Michigan near Beverly shores AND 10 minutes from New Buffalo, Michigan where cheap homes now run close to 200,000.00, but mine has been condemned by fascist Laporte county Health department terrorists and their traitorous seditious judge accomplices while denying a jury trial on the issues. The property will be quit claimed and sold as is to the purchaser who can then deal with these terrorists. who should all be arrested and prosecuted by a jury of their peers. The video of the process to drag me into court began presumed as lawful can be viewed here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVACCaVxYEk
It is on you tube and has been updated..
Agree with the actions in the video? Some will and some wont! Most do not.Yes right here in AmeriKa, the land of the free????? This video is not newsworthy and these actions aren't worth mentioning in the local papers being that they are the accepted norm of behavior by unelected government officials; and it's not real good for tourism... just like the occupation in Lebanon isn't worth mentioning by the US mainstream spoonfed media either...but just have Mel Gibson say something stupid and BAM! Major headlines and possible criminal charges too! What the heck is going on?
If you want to deal with these criminals and bow down to their every whim in what they tell you to do, then this property is for you. I bought it so I would have a beautiful retirement property, but I wouldn't live there now if it was the last place on earth or until this woman and her protective associates are locked up in a prison for the crimes they comitted against me.
PAYMENT ACCEPTED: Gold or silver coin or bullion making up the $22,000.00 exchange rate on day of auction's end. I MAY CONSIDER barter for an automobile or motorcycle of equal value. I will not accept fiat currency FRN'S for this property. Feel free to contact me with questions, proposals and comments as well.
In Liberty, a concept of the past!
Ray Kirkus
http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlawfully-cond...18247410QQihZ013QQcategoryZ1607QQcmdZViewItem
Up for auction is a beautiful 2 plus acre parcel of land with a small pond, 2 bedroom trailer ( which needs work) , shed and other out buildings with power water and septic. All located in occupied Springfield township Laporte County Indiana. Just look at the Laporte county commissioner's web site and you will see that right on the front page they claim their duties are to "REGULATE BEHAVIOR IN LAPORTE COUNTY" for real. and they sure do just that; or use taxpayer monies to terrorise, evict and condemn private property after tresspassing on it. ANYWAY, the property is about a 5 minute drive to the beautiful shore of lake Michigan near Beverly shores AND 10 minutes from New Buffalo, Michigan where cheap homes now run close to 200,000.00, but mine has been condemned by fascist Laporte county Health department terrorists and their traitorous seditious judge accomplices while denying a jury trial on the issues. The property will be quit claimed and sold as is to the purchaser who can then deal with these terrorists. who should all be arrested and prosecuted by a jury of their peers. The video of the process to drag me into court began presumed as lawful can be viewed here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVACCaVxYEk
It is on you tube and has been updated..
Agree with the actions in the video? Some will and some wont! Most do not.Yes right here in AmeriKa, the land of the free????? This video is not newsworthy and these actions aren't worth mentioning in the local papers being that they are the accepted norm of behavior by unelected government officials; and it's not real good for tourism... just like the occupation in Lebanon isn't worth mentioning by the US mainstream spoonfed media either...but just have Mel Gibson say something stupid and BAM! Major headlines and possible criminal charges too! What the heck is going on?
If you want to deal with these criminals and bow down to their every whim in what they tell you to do, then this property is for you. I bought it so I would have a beautiful retirement property, but I wouldn't live there now if it was the last place on earth or until this woman and her protective associates are locked up in a prison for the crimes they comitted against me.
PAYMENT ACCEPTED: Gold or silver coin or bullion making up the $22,000.00 exchange rate on day of auction's end. I MAY CONSIDER barter for an automobile or motorcycle of equal value. I will not accept fiat currency FRN'S for this property. Feel free to contact me with questions, proposals and comments as well.
In Liberty, a concept of the past!
Ray Kirkus
Ed Ames
Member
$22,000 in bullion/equivalent barter (but no "fiat currency") for a quit claim deed (which means there are probably liens/a mortgage and he's planning to walk away from his obligations...and that's disregarding the legal cloud the propery is under b/c of the condemnation) to two garbage-piled acres in Indiana? Sounds like a steal.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
Have you ever repaired or built a septic system?
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
call another agency
is good advice . i got jammed up in manassas va by the city cops they straightened up and flew right when state police showed up. they freaked out that someone would call cops on them.as a fail safe i keep my own number on my cell phone as # 1 on speed dial. i can hit that and just hold phone and it gets recorded. and off site so it can't be "confiscated".
is good advice . i got jammed up in manassas va by the city cops they straightened up and flew right when state police showed up. they freaked out that someone would call cops on them.as a fail safe i keep my own number on my cell phone as # 1 on speed dial. i can hit that and just hold phone and it gets recorded. and off site so it can't be "confiscated".
- Status
