68'chevelle
Member
M14 sniper, M40A3, or the M82A1
What would you pick for a "sniper" rifle?
- Thread starter jrfoxx
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siglite
Member
I view the ammo cost thing as moot. Anyone who's going to be doing real precision shooting will most likely wind up handloading anyway. If you're looking for precision, you won't be shooting bulk ammo. And if you're going to be shooting factory match ammo, it's going to be a fortune no matter what caliber you pick.
So get yourself a $800 bolt gun in 308 or whatever caliber you like. Get yourself a nice mil-dot scope and learn to range with it. And spend the rest on a press, dies, tools, and quality components and start working up your recipe for your rifle.
So get yourself a $800 bolt gun in 308 or whatever caliber you like. Get yourself a nice mil-dot scope and learn to range with it. And spend the rest on a press, dies, tools, and quality components and start working up your recipe for your rifle.
Rifleman 173
Member
How about a 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser? Very accurate rifle. Good bullet. Pretty cheap to obtain and scope the way you want it done. Makes a good sniper rifle for shooting deer, elk or bad guys.
Eightball
Member
Personally, I wouldn't touch a Savage for a militia sniper role--the extractor is too finicky and oddly made to withstand that much endurance, and is prone to mishaps when disassembled. I'd probably take a Sako 75 Hunter in .30-06 (since that ammo can just about be found at every gas station in the US) for an "off the shelf" type use; if I could get a custom rifle done in a week's time, I'd probably get an old action, drop it in a McMillan stock, get it bedded and get a new barrel put on there (yes, all this for under $1000--I have some connections, and have no problem shopping "used" parts), and stick a Leupold with a steel tube (rather than aluminum) on top, preferrably something VXII-rated or higher; all this in .30-06, because you can find that round justabout anywhere....handloading would work wonders depending on the planned situation, but in a pinch, off the shelf would work. Plus, .30-06 wouldn't be looked upon as a "militia" style thing, should it come to an occupation where the militia would be needed. Overkill for 600? Absolutely. Ubiquitous and cheap availability? You betcha. YMMV
I personally now have a Howa bolt in .300 win mag and a DPMS LR .308 with 18" barrel. I would prefer the DPMS because if I happen to miss I have more ammo to keep plucking until I hit before a reload. I just like having that extra ammo for multiple targets. The Howa is a bit more accurate but again, I prefer semi-auto.
KBintheSLC
Member
Unless you are a professional sniper for the military (I doubt this), the comment is borderline inappropriate. The forum is not here to give you pointers on how to better kill people. Unless of course we are talking about self defense or home defense in which case you don't need to shoot 600 yards or more.
Please stop generating fodder for the anti's.
db_tanker
Member
my choice for a long range target shooting platform is sitting in my gun cabinet right now.
B&C stock, Hart 26" 1-10 twist medium contour barrel with a standard crown chambered in 308, Brno Mauser action, Leupold one piece scope mount and Bold trigger adjusted to a nice 2.5 lbs. The glass is Simmons and lets me keep a respectable group at 100 and 300 yards (read 1.25 and 2.25 averages) with factory ammo. My handloads of BLC2 or Varget and 168 gr. Sierra MK's will shave another half inch off those if I do what I need to. Of course the glass is a somewhat limiting factor but hey...it works and it takes what recoil the 308 produces.
B&C stock, Hart 26" 1-10 twist medium contour barrel with a standard crown chambered in 308, Brno Mauser action, Leupold one piece scope mount and Bold trigger adjusted to a nice 2.5 lbs. The glass is Simmons and lets me keep a respectable group at 100 and 300 yards (read 1.25 and 2.25 averages) with factory ammo. My handloads of BLC2 or Varget and 168 gr. Sierra MK's will shave another half inch off those if I do what I need to. Of course the glass is a somewhat limiting factor but hey...it works and it takes what recoil the 308 produces.
Zeke/PA
Member
My choice would be a Pre '64 Winchester Model 70 in 300 H&H Magnum topped with a 15x Unertl or Lyman glass.
Zeke
Zeke
stubbicatt
Member
For ranges out to 600 meters
I like my PTR91 in 308 caliber. With well built handloads I can bounce a milk jug at 600 all day with the scope installed. It is not terribly expensive, has a quick followup shot, and is a whole lot of fun. Ammo is expensive these days, but magazines are quite inexpensive. The setup is accurate enough for use on the longer shots on prairie dogs, but it isn't something you do all the time because it becomes expensive quick!
There are many bolt actioned rifles, and I'm in planning stage of blueprinting a Remington 700 actioned 260 Remington in AI stock that should shoot very well too.
This passtime sure can be a lot of fun.
I worry about those folks considering "sniper rifles," as shooting at people is generally frowned upon, and one would have a deuce of a time convincing a jury of a self defense claim at 600 yards!
I like my PTR91 in 308 caliber. With well built handloads I can bounce a milk jug at 600 all day with the scope installed. It is not terribly expensive, has a quick followup shot, and is a whole lot of fun. Ammo is expensive these days, but magazines are quite inexpensive. The setup is accurate enough for use on the longer shots on prairie dogs, but it isn't something you do all the time because it becomes expensive quick!
There are many bolt actioned rifles, and I'm in planning stage of blueprinting a Remington 700 actioned 260 Remington in AI stock that should shoot very well too.
This passtime sure can be a lot of fun.
I worry about those folks considering "sniper rifles," as shooting at people is generally frowned upon, and one would have a deuce of a time convincing a jury of a self defense claim at 600 yards!
jrfoxx
Member
KBintheSLC and riverdog--why dont you read before commenting and making assumptions on my motivation? I have made the reasoning for this thread QUITE clear, starting with a note in the VERY FIRST post, to see post #14 where further explanation is given.
Also
Also
Yeah, because until all of us "experts" listed them, the anti's had NEVER refered to common hunting rifles as "sniper rifles", and tried banning them, and the concept they could be used as such had TOTALLY escaped them somehow.
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Don't Tread On Me
Member
Issue is ammo. Whatever you will "snipe" with will need to be at least close to MOA. That means some sort of premium ammo. Let's see....if I remember correctly, Blackhills redbox (bluebox suffers from being sold out most of the time) runs about $35ish, give or take depending on the bullet you chose in .223. For 50rds. Say, $40 to get it to your door. Now, I don't know if your dealers are good or not, but I know around here, take the internet price and multiply by 2! The price above I got from Midway, which is usually pretty good. OK, so that's still $0.80 a round when all is said and done.
With the best deals out there, no shipping so forth and so on...I do not believe you can find premium ammo like that for anywhere near $0.50 a shot. Just not going to happen in this day and age.
The alternative is, you can either handload which will drop the cost significantly or buy standard ammo. A box of Sierra Matchkings is usually $17. Cheaper if you buy in larger bulk, add cases, powder, primer and whatever else...you should be able to handload them for no more than $0.30 a shot. That's even paying top price for components. Of course, you will pay in reloading equiment costs as well as in time and effort. And to add to that, the less you pay in reloading equiment, the more you will pay in effort. Trust me.
Regular ammo, like 55gr Remington UMC is nearly $7 per 20 at places like Wal*Mart. About $0.35 a shot. Unfortunately, it will group about 2" to 2.5" typical. Maybe less if your rifle likes it. A higher chance it could be more though.
Before you go forward. I would get a good handle on what my goal is and how I want to accomplish it. If you are looking to be shooting out past 500 yards. That is going to require certain specs for your equipment. If you're just going to hammer away at 100 and 200 yards 95% of the time, then not nearly as much is needed as people often think.
With the best deals out there, no shipping so forth and so on...I do not believe you can find premium ammo like that for anywhere near $0.50 a shot. Just not going to happen in this day and age.
The alternative is, you can either handload which will drop the cost significantly or buy standard ammo. A box of Sierra Matchkings is usually $17. Cheaper if you buy in larger bulk, add cases, powder, primer and whatever else...you should be able to handload them for no more than $0.30 a shot. That's even paying top price for components. Of course, you will pay in reloading equiment costs as well as in time and effort. And to add to that, the less you pay in reloading equiment, the more you will pay in effort. Trust me.
Regular ammo, like 55gr Remington UMC is nearly $7 per 20 at places like Wal*Mart. About $0.35 a shot. Unfortunately, it will group about 2" to 2.5" typical. Maybe less if your rifle likes it. A higher chance it could be more though.
Before you go forward. I would get a good handle on what my goal is and how I want to accomplish it. If you are looking to be shooting out past 500 yards. That is going to require certain specs for your equipment. If you're just going to hammer away at 100 and 200 yards 95% of the time, then not nearly as much is needed as people often think.
Sort of depends upon the parameters in use. If you're a Scout or Forward Observer and are relying upon concealment in a legitimate official role and have need or justification to shoot I don't think you'd want a spent cartridge case flipping up over your head to reveal your location to other observers of the opposing side.
Sometimes inherrant accuracy isn't the only criteria in choosing a system for an application. A single shot .22rimfire canegun could be considered a "sniper rifle" if that's what the situation warranted. And now I think I'll go find some Sherlock Holmes to read for the afternoon.
(I suspect this thread will be locked in three, two, one, ....)
Don't Tread On Me
Member
On another note...
My personal belief of what a "sniper rifle" is, is any rifle that a sniper is using to snipe with.
Sniping is an action.
Or, like Zak said, those rifles which have actually been issued to those actually titled as snipers. That is a good definition too. IF you want to apply the term "sniper" to describe a set of features or a class of rifles. There is a problem with that. There are semi-automatic rifles and bolt action rifles made for this role. Some of which are very different from one another. Just look at the AI vs. 700. How about the Barrett? Or the PSG1?
That definition doesn't work all the time. It's like saying "infantry rifle" ...that could be a musket to an M16. Unless you said "modern infantry rifle" ...which would imply an infantry rifle currently in service or at the very most - one recently retired.
That's what happens when you try and take a verb that describes a process and turn it into an adjective describing a class of firearms.
If you look at the insurgents in Iraq. Some of them are using AK's to snipe with. Yes, what they are doing is sniping. Would you call the AKM a sniper rifle? No. But only because it is common and typical for most of us to immediately have a pre-defined image and definition of what a sniper is. After all, being citizens of the United States, we have armed forces that have sniper schools. So it is a career with a title, and the specifics of the kinds of roles, missions, procedures and equipment are defined. So we go by that. European forces have different rifles for their snipers.
Whatever the case, that insurgent, shooting from the trunk of a car at no more than 200m with an AK is sniping. They are stalking a target. They are shooting from a hidden position of concealment or cover....While he is doing that, that sniper's rifle is an AK. That AK is the sniper's rifle. Note the apostrophe indicating possession. The AK can be a sniper rifle. The AK is not meant to be or primarily used as a sniper rifle.
Kind of funny. What some of the greatest snipers used in the past would be considered useless today. Yet, they were used to snipe with. A lot of people associate the following with being mandatory for a "sniper rifle" :
.30 cal or greater
optics
bolt action
accurate to 1,000 yards
I don't necessarily agree. But I'm not a sniper either....
My personal belief of what a "sniper rifle" is, is any rifle that a sniper is using to snipe with.
Sniping is an action.
Or, like Zak said, those rifles which have actually been issued to those actually titled as snipers. That is a good definition too. IF you want to apply the term "sniper" to describe a set of features or a class of rifles. There is a problem with that. There are semi-automatic rifles and bolt action rifles made for this role. Some of which are very different from one another. Just look at the AI vs. 700. How about the Barrett? Or the PSG1?
That definition doesn't work all the time. It's like saying "infantry rifle" ...that could be a musket to an M16. Unless you said "modern infantry rifle" ...which would imply an infantry rifle currently in service or at the very most - one recently retired.
That's what happens when you try and take a verb that describes a process and turn it into an adjective describing a class of firearms.
If you look at the insurgents in Iraq. Some of them are using AK's to snipe with. Yes, what they are doing is sniping. Would you call the AKM a sniper rifle? No. But only because it is common and typical for most of us to immediately have a pre-defined image and definition of what a sniper is. After all, being citizens of the United States, we have armed forces that have sniper schools. So it is a career with a title, and the specifics of the kinds of roles, missions, procedures and equipment are defined. So we go by that. European forces have different rifles for their snipers.
Whatever the case, that insurgent, shooting from the trunk of a car at no more than 200m with an AK is sniping. They are stalking a target. They are shooting from a hidden position of concealment or cover....While he is doing that, that sniper's rifle is an AK. That AK is the sniper's rifle. Note the apostrophe indicating possession. The AK can be a sniper rifle. The AK is not meant to be or primarily used as a sniper rifle.
Kind of funny. What some of the greatest snipers used in the past would be considered useless today. Yet, they were used to snipe with. A lot of people associate the following with being mandatory for a "sniper rifle" :
.30 cal or greater
optics
bolt action
accurate to 1,000 yards
I don't necessarily agree. But I'm not a sniper either....
jrfoxx
Member
I certainly agree with you that there are some things which simply shoulf not be discussed in a public forum, I PERSONALLY don't feel this topic, as exsplained, is one of them.Also, I have every bit of faith in the members and moderators here, that if they felt it was over the line, it would quickly be locked and/or deleted as nessecary, and I would certainly hold no ill will towards this board or any of its members for doing so, as it was done with all of our best interest in mind (just as I hold no ill will towards you for feeling it IS over the line, as again, I dont think it has anything to do with me personally, just you trying to look out for all of us as a whole.No one should argue with that reasoning). Any anti dedicated enough to be scouring gun boards for ammo against us, will find thousands of threads they could use, including most of S&T ("see, they are planning on killing people, look how the alk about strategy!"), and even discussions about Revolutionary and Civil war muzzleloaders employed as "sniper" weapons ("see, I told you that 'they' shouldnt even be allowed the simplest of weapons, look how they can use ANYTHING to kill from a distance!").There is definitely a line that shouldn't be crossed, but at the same time, we cannot limit our discussions to exclude ANYTHING the anti's could possibly use against us, as then we would have the only gun board on the net, where you weren't allowed to discuss guns.And even then, the antis would have no less to say about the evils of guns and gun owners, and would still be trying to ban the ownership of ALL guns.
anywho, as to what I would choose for the purpose of this topic, I really dont know, as I have never had a place I could fire ANY gun over 150 yds.Out of what i have currently, I would think my win. Model 70 from the 80's, in 30-06, with the 4-12x scope and bullet drop quick adjustment type turrets (sorry, dont know the maker or model off the top of my head from work), would do pretty well, given enough practice, and ammo that was at least consistant in that gun.I'll also say, I getting some pretty good ideas on what to get medium caliber-wise to try out long range target shooting, without breaking the bank when I eventually get a place to do so.Lots of good info on scopes, too.Thanks to all who have participated, and my sincerest apologies to any who beleive this thread is harmful to our cause, as that is the last thing I'm interested in.I also apologize if the question wasn't worded as well as it could be, even in spite of post #14 trying to clarify.I was trying to not be too long-winded, and writing just isnt one of my skills.I just though it would be a fun and usefull discussion, with a slightly different twist (due to the limitations set, and stated purpose) on the whole "whats the best long-range rifle" theme.
anywho, as to what I would choose for the purpose of this topic, I really dont know, as I have never had a place I could fire ANY gun over 150 yds.Out of what i have currently, I would think my win. Model 70 from the 80's, in 30-06, with the 4-12x scope and bullet drop quick adjustment type turrets (sorry, dont know the maker or model off the top of my head from work), would do pretty well, given enough practice, and ammo that was at least consistant in that gun.I'll also say, I getting some pretty good ideas on what to get medium caliber-wise to try out long range target shooting, without breaking the bank when I eventually get a place to do so.Lots of good info on scopes, too.Thanks to all who have participated, and my sincerest apologies to any who beleive this thread is harmful to our cause, as that is the last thing I'm interested in.I also apologize if the question wasn't worded as well as it could be, even in spite of post #14 trying to clarify.I was trying to not be too long-winded, and writing just isnt one of my skills.I just though it would be a fun and usefull discussion, with a slightly different twist (due to the limitations set, and stated purpose) on the whole "whats the best long-range rifle" theme.
Sgt.Dusk
Member
I was about to say Sako TRG but because the criteria mentioned the price too
I gotta go with Dragunov.
I gotta go with Dragunov.
Shawnee
member
Savage 110 in 7mm Mag.
greenflash107
Member
For long range "target" shooting, a winchester model 70, 30-06 and a good scope of your choice. It would be good out to 1000 yards, but it doesnt mean that I would. It would take a lot of practice to get good at that kind of range.
xd9fan
Member
Tango 51
The old remingtons in 308, with a decent scope, worked fine in Nam. Of course you can get one of those 50 caliber sniper jobs that they cut down to a 40 cal on futurewrapons, but the round will cost as much as the Remington. They were shooting tht sucker a mile and a half, at night, hope they don't sell to many. I can't see a mile and a half, if they get any more futuristic, you will be able to take the shot, go for coffee, and get back in time to see it hit the target.
stevereno1
Member
according to the gun grabbers, any of us that have a deer rifle with a scope already own a sniper rifle.
kyrifleman0714
Member
- Joined
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I would get an AR-10 with a free floating 24" bull barrel, and a free floating trigger group with a 2 stage match trigger. For the scope, give me a Leupold Mark IV, and load me up with 175gr Sierra Matchking.
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