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What your longest ethical range on whitetail deer

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by troy fairweather, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. Bacon buster

    Bacon buster Member

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    It really comes down to equipment bullet design and shooter ability. If you aren’t using bullets that dump in the animal that still function at lower velocity then you’re depending on near perfect bullet placement to efficiently kill. No hydrostatic shock no fragments means perfect heart spine or head shot. Double lung shots at long range are gonna leave a ton of tracking with minimal blood. Average accuracy in the field under perfect conditions might be moa. If you’re moving around and the animals are moving around you can pretty much double that or more depending on your shooting discipline and how much your heart rate is elevated. Picture perfect shots are rare in the field. Maybe if your in the blind watching a bait pile or feeder at a known range and everything in your favor you could be confident at extended ranges but the reality is that if your actively pursuing and stalking and locating game you need forgiveness in shot placement and you need a bullet that is going to do the job properly.
     
  2. Bacon buster

    Bacon buster Member

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    Furthermore a lack of respect for the natural resources and the life of something living is the very definition of unethical and part of what keeps new regulations and laws pouring in.
     
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  3. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

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    Many post have touched on the point of game animal versus pest.
    Many states recognize feral pigs as game animals. I feel that they are destroying habitat and should be eliminated. I do feel that they should be ethically treated with quick kills.
    Geese and deer along with others animals are pest to farmers and land owners, but they also should be ethically treated with quick kills. They should be managed by the law.
    There is only one case that wounding an animal is acceptable. That is when being attacked by an animal. Stoping the attack is the priority. Yes I would like to see them ethically killed, but the main thing is to stop the attack.
     
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  4. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Which reminds me, you're welcome. For the air, my trees produce, the pollination my honeybees provide, and the preservation and habitat, for dozens of species, my brush-piles ensure.
    Case in point: There are ants, and ant-hills all over the property. Everything from pismires, to bull-ants, to fire-ants. Do I kill all these ants, whenever possible ? Of course not, they have a set place, in the food chain, and the cycle of nature. But, when they encroach on the house, or in an area where they present themselves to be a problem, they are selectively eradicated, as they have become pests, in that specific area and instance.
    As with anything, balance is key. If your property is over-run with coyotes, are you going to hesitate, to take the off shot, because of ethics ?
    I doubt it.
    Wisborn, the only time, in a lifetime of walking the woods, in which I was ever attacked by an animal, was when I was bitten, by the family terrier.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  5. Bacon buster

    Bacon buster Member

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    Lol when it comes to your nest we are no different than anything else. Defensive guarded and ready to do what is needed. If I’m shooting at something and I don’t feel like it’s money why pull the trigger. It’ll come back through and if it doesn’t I have that round for the next one that does
     
  6. Aletheia

    Aletheia Member

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    You doubt it because YOU would "take the off shot" as you say. You are quite simply wrong to argue I would, just because you would.

    There are a couple of things you don't seem to understand. First of all, everyone here has already made the decision that it is ethical to kill something if necessary. So killing something is not a question of ethics in this thread. It's HOW you kill something that most people talk about when they talk about the ethics of killing things, whether it is for food or to control "pests". I take the position that it is unethical to ignore the possibility of suffering that your killing includes, and that shots that you know before you take them (off shots?) have a high probability of producing suffering and pain rather than a humane death are unethical. Why would making a coyote suffer a lingering, painful death be fine if there were a lot of them around, rather than just a few, or not fine if they were declared a "game animal" for some reason like ..... oh say ...... fur bearing?
     
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  7. AK Hunter

    AK Hunter Member

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    On white tail deer using the few legal weapons I have makes the distance vary a great deal.
    For my compound bow I would stay under 30yds, I practice out to 50yd.
    For my crossbow I can take them out to 60yds, I practice out to 85yd
    For my .300 Blackout pistol I keep it under 100yds, I practice out to 130yd.
    For my TC black powder gun I keep it to 150yds, I practice out to 200yds.
    For my 350 Legend AR rifle I can easily take one at 200yds, I practice out to 300yd.
    For my 6.5 Savage Axis I can take one out to 300yds, I practice out to 400+(private land only)
    The distance I shoot will depend on what weapon I take.
    Others have mentioned shooting other animals like varmints or flat out pests, it makes a difference the quality of the animal & the care I take to harvest them.
    I don't have hogs here but if I did they would be the lowest on my scale of hunting ethics, just about like the coyote is here.
     
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  8. mcb

    mcb Member

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  9. High Plains

    High Plains Member

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    Western Kansas is the land of long shots. This is due to the absence of trees and other foliage to conceal much. Also, the rifle season is basically in the winter when the only wide spread food source is green wheat. Such fields are wide open, and usually flat flat flat. Of course the deer bedding areas are not in the wheat and it is possible to intercept deer on the move so you have a 100-200 yard shot.
    I have taken deer from 125 yards to 535 yards. The longest shot (with my extremely accurate 300 Weatherby) was under perfect conditions from a steady position. I practiced a lot of 300 and 400 yard shots the previous summer-fall. With all that, the shot was no more difficult than a 300 yard shot. A great range card of the reticle holdover points coupled with my buddy on his ballistic range finder were extremely helpful. It still takes practice and there is no substitute for practice in the same positions / ranges likely to be used.
    My 400ish yard shots may seem unsportsmanlike to the person who has never hunted wide open places. I have not hunted in heavy timber or swamps. I have never wounded an animal with an errant shot. Call it good graces but the one shot kills are what I have.
    Ordinary lead core bullets from Hornady and Sierra have done the job for me. So have Swifts on the last five White tails I’ve taken. The shortest shot for those deer was 175 yards. The longest was 410 yards. Bang flop done is how it all went.
    There is no all around best rifle for a long shot, but there are plenty that will do it well if you put the bullet in the right place. If you don’t think your skills are up to it, you’re probably right. If you think you can based on practice and results, do it.
     
  10. Keyfer 55

    Keyfer 55 Member

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    I shot a doe 225 yrd. with 7mm Mag. bullet was a pass through. I think range, terrain and
    willingness to recover your game and age makes a more ethical hunter. It was the most
    miserable recovery I've done.
     
  11. Hugger-4641

    Hugger-4641 Member

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    I was gonna skip over this one and not post a comment, but this is a conversation I've had several times with nieces, nephews, and others I've hunted with , so, oh well, here goes.

    I can agree with much that has already been said. To me, there is no set "ethical" distance as long as it is within the ballistic reality of the weapon you are using. 60yds is an unethical shot for my bow, because I rarely practice past 50yds with it. Levi or Samantha Morgan can probably do it with their eyes closed. Taking a shot through thick brush when you don't have a full sight picture? not an ethical thing for deer in my book, but I've done it with coyotes a time or two and lucked out. My trusty ole model 94 has proven its whittle out to 250yds several times on deer. I'm confident in my ability to hit the vitals at that distance, given the right picture. I'm not confident in it's ability to penetrate vitals and still expand properly at much longer distance. I've made 400yd kills with my 30-06 and 300 win mag. This distance is probably nearing the end of my skill and confidence with the 30-06, but I wouldn't be afraid to take a 600yd shot with the 300, under the right circumstances. So what's right and what's wrong with all I've said so far?

    With all this said, I've also lost a couple animals that shouldn't have went another step after the shot. I shot a doe one afternoon with the 30-06, 15 yds away and I'm 20 ft in the air above her. Looked like half her innerds were right there on the ground along with a pile of bone and hair. Tracked her about 75yds through thick brush and blood trail just stopped. I circled the last blood drops for an hour past dark with no luck. Found her the next day, no critters had found her yet, but the meat was already ruined. She jumped into a ravine and then back up into an overhang of briars and downed tree tops. I had went into that ravine and walked within 40 feet of her the night before. Her front shoulder was totally broken, barely hanging on, half her ribs and chest cavity on that side was gone. I think she didn't have any blood left to leave a trail. The only up side of it all was that I don't think she suffered long and was probably done with before I ever got out of the stand. Still, she should have dropped right where I shot her. Sometimes things just don't happen like they should. Hopefully we're not defined by a single event or decision, cause I've made good ones and bad ones. Each time is an opportunity to try to do your best and show respect for the animal you are hunting. Most times it works out right for me, sometimes my best ends up being not to take the shot, and sometimes you do everything right and still lose. I'll end with this statement that I tell my nieces and nephews when I take them hunting; "If you ever get to the point that you don't have just a little twinge of sadness and respect when taking an animal or especially if you wound one, you need to quit hunting".
     
  12. PonyKiller

    PonyKiller Member

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    With my muzzle loader( in season now) from my chair, from straight forward to over my left shoulder mpbr 115yds, cranked all the way to the left 75, 30 degrees to the right 50yds. Standing, mpbr.
     
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  13. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    My first sentence sums up the validity of the OP topic. “Hunting Ethics” is a fallacy meant to divide hunters.
    My next two sentences are for the silly “ethics” debate.
    My last sentence is for those intent on “schooling” me in “ethics”. I’m basically saying shut their pie hole.
     
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  14. 9x56MS

    9x56MS Member

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    Depends on the weapon I am using bow 35 yards crossbow 50 yards Unscoped rifle 150- 200 yards scoped rifle 300 yards. But typically most places I hunt I can’t shoot more than 100 yards. If I haven’t practiced at that range I won’t shoot it.
     
  15. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

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    Watched this video that was posted a couple of hours ago from Mark & Sam after work.
    He is a ELR shooter. I enjoyed his take on long range hunting. I hope you will.
     
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  16. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    100% agree, a lot of lr guys never bring up bullet flight time like I mentioned in my op.
     
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  17. hdbiker

    hdbiker Member

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    I can't say for sure, of the 60 or so deer I've
    killed not one was beyond 100 yards hdbiker
     
  18. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

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    I have shot a couple in the 250 yard range. I always thought part of hunting is getting close to the animal you are hunting. So less than one hundred yards is getting to where the animals are!
     
  19. Hoppy-tn

    Hoppy-tn Member

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    I have shot a couple deer at 350 yards and shot several coyotes between 300 and 400 yards.
    I love to watch deer so I hunt power line right of ways and big fields so I can watch a lot of open ground.
    I sight my scopes and check my hunting gun every year out to 500 yards so I only take those shots because I know I can hit them. I hunt out of blinds and have bipod sticks for a steady rest. I have Swarovski z5 scopes with the ballistic turrets set out to 500 yards on my gun so I am confident in my shot. If someone knows there equipment, setup and has confidence in it then take the shot, if they are hesitate about the shot then best to pass on it, that’s my opinion.That being said I have passed a couple shots around 300 yards on deer because of it being windy and not being able to hold the crosshairs steady. I would hate to wound an animal and have it suffer. My favorite thing to do each year is set a milk jug full of water out at 500 yards and watch it blow up:)
     
  20. stillquietvoice

    stillquietvoice Member

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    @Hoppy-tn welcome to the forum.
     
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  21. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    250 is my max it’s just what I feel comfortable with and that’s that! :D:D:D
     
  22. Usonia3

    Usonia3 Member

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    I only hunt woods, no long shots across soybean fields, which suits me and my slug gun just fine.i shoot a Mossberg 500, with a made in France, Parralex rifled barrel with cantilever scope mount. It's incredibly accurate. But in the deep woods my shots are limited to 80 yards. I'm fine with that.
     
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