Whataburger bans OC in TX restaurants

[hso]

Started in Corpus Christi, TX some 60 years ago, San Antonio based Whataburger has said they will not permit open carry in their restaurants.

Here's their letter from their CEO.

Whataburger Addresses Open Carry Policy

Company July 2, 2015 San Antonio
There’s been a lot of talk the past couple weeks about Whataburger’s open carry policy, and I wanted to reach out to personally explain our position.

Whataburger supports customers’ Second Amendment rights and we respect your group’s position, but we haven’t allowed the open carry of firearms in our restaurants for a long time (although we have not prohibited licensed conceal carry). It’s a business decision we made a long time ago and have stood by, and I think it’s important you know why.

But first, as a representative of Whataburger, I want you to know we proudly serve the gun rights community. I personally enjoy hunting and also have my concealed carry license, as do others at Whataburger.

From a business standpoint, though, we have to think about how open carry impacts our 34,000+ employees and millions of customers. We serve customers from all walks of life at more than 780 locations, 24 hours a day, in 10 states and we’re known for a family friendly atmosphere that customers have come to expect from us. We’re the gathering spot for Little League teams, church groups and high school kids after football games.

We’ve had many customers and employees tell us they’re uncomfortable being around someone with a visible firearm who is not a member of law enforcement, and as a business, we have to listen and value that feedback in the same way we value yours. We have a responsibility to make sure everyone who walks into our restaurants feels comfortable. For that reason, we don’t restrict licensed concealed carry but do ask customers not to open carry in our restaurants.

As a company serving customers with many different viewpoints, we’re sometimes caught in the middle on controversial issues like this one. We hope you and your members, along with our other friends in the gun rights community, understand our position and will continue to visit us. We appreciate your business. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Preston Atkinson
Whataburger President and CEO

 

[USAF_Vet]

That's a nice, well thought out and well written letter that does not hold the weight of law. Come 1/1/16, when open carry in Texas becomes legal, and each and every individual store does not post a sign (I believe it's the 30.05 for open carry), what then? Will Texans walk right through the door openly carrying their guns? I'm sure this CEO letter was not forwarded to every Texas gun owner, so while it's a nice sentiment to appease the anti's, it does nothing on its own.

As of 7/2/15, when this letter was written, the only lawful open carry of firearms in Texas was open carry of long guns. Does this letter imply licensed open carry after 1/1/16 and is trying to be preemptive? Or does it simply imply unlicensed open carry of long guns?

Personally, with it's "I'm a hunter and I respect the 2A" angle, I think this is meant more to appease the anti's than anything else. No where does it state an intention to ban licensed open carry of handguns.

Is there a sign requirement to ban OC of long guns?

 

[hso]

They'll need post their facilities if they intend to enforce compliance and I'm not sure how they'd handle OC with a permit.

 

[JohnKSa]

OC in TX will ONLY be allowed with a permit. The new law essentially converts all existing Concealed Handgun Licenses to Handgun Licenses.

Anyone with a permit will be allowed to carry concealed handguns as under the old law and will also be allowed to carry holstered handguns openly.

There is nothing in the law that would make general open carry of a handgun legal without a permit.

The law, which will go into effect on 1 Jan 2016, rigidly defines a sign which may be posted by business owners to deny OC just as there is already a sign rigidly defined to deny CC.

My guess is that Whataburger will not post their businesses but will ask those who OC to leave. Under the new law, just as was previously true with the old law relating to CC, a business may verbally ask a person to leave or hand that person a card which asks them to leave. A person who refuses to leave would be committing an offense.

 

[gamestalker]

Wendy's did something similar out here a few years back. But it didn't take long before they pulled all the signs. But of course we are talking about a state that has allowed OC for decades, maybe even a century. The impact on business must have been significant, cause it didn't take long for them to pull the signs.

Where as Texas is just now opening this can of proverbial worms, so there will likely be a lot of legal mumbo jumbo going on before everyone gets settled in on their stance.

GS

 

[JRH6856]

Sure, someone can enter a business where there is no sign or an incorrect sign, but if they are told to leave, or if they are open carrying told to conceal, the law says they have to comply. And Whataburger has sent a memo to their employees telling them what to tell someone who is open carrying.

As it stands right now, it appears that Whataburger is hoping they won't have to post signs and that there will only be a few instances for employees to deal with. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[misterarman]

Anybody that is against my beliefs will not get my money.
If all the gun owners would boycott all the companies against us they would get the message.
United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[calaverasslim]

I agree if everyone who can OC should ban Whataburger, but that won't do much good, I'm afraid. With a state population of approx. 28 million and approx. 800,000 who are eligible to OC, that won't make much of an impact.

 

[guyfromohio]

Untuck your shirt for 20 minutes and enjoy your fries for crying out loud.

 

[GEM]

What's the percent of business done by drive thru anyway?

Figure out how many TX folks think OC is silly anyway.

Also, since the vast majority of CHLs in TX don't carry much anyway - don't expect a boycott to amount to much.

Sounds good on the Internet, though.

 

[MEHavey]

untuck your shirt for 20 minutes and
enjoy your fries for crying out loud.

^^^^^ that ^^^^^

 

[moxie]

I live in Texas. In this area we have a very high concentration of concealed carry people who are very happy with concealed carry. This has been discussed for a long time. I don't know a single CHL carrier who intends to start open carrying on Jan. 1. Sure there will be a few, because it will be a novelty, but I don't know them. The Whataburger memo quoted above pretty much accurately reflects the majority sentiment around here. That's just the facts.

 

[Walt65]

I can not support and business that does not support open carry.
Open carry is not uncommon in Arizona, especially outside of Phoenix.

 

[JRH6856]

FWIW, I support an individual's right to choose what to carry, when to carry, where to carry and how to carry. I also support a business or property owner's right to choose to whom they allow or deny access to their property and under what conditions. There are times that the two will be in conflict and at those times, additional choices may need to be made by one or both parties. Freedom to make choices is the essence of liberty.

 

[guyfromohio]

Why it's all said and done, I think the best response that a business can give is "our policies reflect the laws of the jurisdiction in which we are operating our business". That should silence all parties.

 

[JRH6856]

Why it's all said and done, I think the best response that a business can give is "our policies reflect the laws of the jurisdiction in which we are operating our business". That should silence all parties.

It perhaps might silence all parties not intent on changing the law. But that is all.

 

[bazazu]

So this part seems to be the most important to me:

We’ve had many customers and employees tell us they’re uncomfortable being around someone with a visible firearm who is not a member of law enforcement, and as a business, we have to listen and value that feedback in the same way we value yours. We have a responsibility to make sure everyone who walks into our restaurants feels comfortable. For that reason, we don’t restrict licensed concealed carry but do ask customers not to open carry in our restaurants.

So instead of helping to address the issue, we are only going to perpetuate it. By continuing to "hide" guns from the public, they will only continue to be afraid of them. Until the culture of america changes and essentially "gets used to" the idea of guns being visible in public, things aren't going to get better.

I realize it's not his crusade, but he certainly isn't doing anyone any favors.

 

[JohnKSa]

I realize it's not his crusade, but he certainly isn't doing anyone any favors.

You're right, it's not his crusade. His business is keeping his customers happy and making money and those are the only favors he's interested in doing anyone.

If he thought he could make more customers happy and make more money by allowing OC, I have no doubt in my mind he'd take that approach.

Not saying I like what he's chosen to do, but I fully understand why he's done it and can't really blame him for putting his business first--given that's precisely what the business pays him to do.

 

[AKElroy]

Wataburger is a staple in this state, and the owners are good people. His statement is supportive of our rights. This should not be lumped in with the numerous other examples of companies making an anti RKBA statement. He has a private business, on private property. Guess what folks, I am going to enjoy my burger a little more if I don't have to keep a hand on my CCH, just in case Mr. "I've got rights, deal with it" isn't some wack job waiting for the right time to go postal.

There is not a soul reading this that is not going to be wary of anyone OC'ing in places where that practice is unusual.

For the same reason, open carry is not allowed on my front lawn by anyone other than me, or those I know.

 

[hso]

His statement is supportive of our rights.

Please explain how banning legal open carry by permit holders is supportive of your or our rights? Surely you misspoke since supportive would mean they would encourage instead of be neutral or discourage or prohibit the exercise of the right.

 

[winchester1886]

I agree 100% with AK Elroy !

 

[USAF_Vet]

I agree with hso, he isn't supportive of the 2A. He's supportive of his profit margin and his paycheck.

Kroger is an example of doing it right. MDA came around whining about open carry, and the board of Kroger pretty much shrugged them off with "meh, if it's legal, no problem." Wataburger, is being proactive against lawful open carry, which doesn't go into effect for another six months.

There is not a soul reading this that is not going to be wary of anyone OC'ing in places where that practice is unusual.

I guess what I consider unusual differs from yours. Personally, it would not alarm me in the least if I saw someone open carry a properly holstered and retained pistol into a fast food joint, family restaurant, grocery store or anywhere else it would be considered normal day to day business. I judge the person by the way they act. They act sketchy, I'm going to keep an eye on them and keep my distance from them regardless if they have an openly carried pistol or not.

 

[1911Tuner]

Devil's Advocate that I am, I have to...

Consider the possibility that Whataburger simply wants to avoid another spectacle like Starbucks had, with the idiots walking in with slung AKs and AR15s and bandoliers full of loaded magazines.

Which brings us to an old bit of wisdom:

Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should.

All it takes is a few morons to throw a monkey wrench into the gear box.

 

[DoubleMag]

#9, #11, #19

The owner wrote a decent letter explaining it. I've been to AZ once, TX never, and never been inside one of these shops. Is W-A-Burger a lounge, internet cafe, or a place where you get in & get out? Of course, anywhere has a few persons that just drink coffee but I'll bet the 'inconvience' of untucking a shirt or, if you really want a protest, covering your otherwise OC handgun with a W-A-B napkin is MINIMAL at best.

Any place like this, which did not develop a business position based on 'party based political pressure', and has had a clear previous position of 2A advocacy, and doubly so if they allow their employees to CCW,will retain my business. For the whopping 1/2 hr I'm there...I'll comply with their parking lanes, mens & womens RR's (while we still have those LoL), no smoking, and ''cover me up your pistol'' signs/policies......

THERE'S OTHER FISH TO FRY FOLKS

 

[AKElroy]

Please explain how banning legal open carry by permit holders is supportive of your or our rights? Surely you misspoke since supportive would mean they would encourage instead of be neutral or discourage or prohibit the exercise of the right.

It is supportive in that 1. He is a CHL holder himself, and proud of it. 2. He supports the RKBA. His statement did NOT contain any of the tripe normally associated with these types of requests, namely that the public would be "endangered" by the presence of OC weapons. He simply stated that it would make some of his employees and some of his customers uneasy. And, by the way, it would. Neither of those things are conducive to employee retention or hamburger selling.

Let's look at the flip-side -- assume his statement was the opposite; "y'all feel free to OC in our shop!" Well, then the spectacle becomes lines of loaded AR/AK clad OC activists eating there. Since that customer base will wane over time, the damage done to the loss of the "regulars" would be difficult to overcome; the controversy on either side is something businesses like this DO NOT benefit from.

This is private property, folks. He is exercising a right as fundamental as the RKBA. OC by some (not all) is a civil activist / protest activity. (I'm referring to rifles more than pistols). Protests and "political point" making certainly have a proper place, but that place is not necessarily when I'm trying to enjoy my #2 combo, hold the onions, add jalipenos, whatasized with an unsweet tea.

By the way, I would have the same view if they had lines of "Save the whales", PITA activist, picketers on either side of the gay marriage or abortion issue, etc. Just let me eat my burger in peace for crying out loud....