What's a good measure for off-hand accuracy?

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With my 6" guns, I can bang my 12" gong every time at 50 yards, about 3/4 of the time shooting at the 10" and about half the time shooting at the 8 incher. It might be the best compared to what some guys claim, but I'm proud of it.
 
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Pete D. said:
Did he ever shoot Bullseye matches? I ask because the ten ring on the 50 yard precision target is ~3". I assume that by "freehand" you mean one hand unsupported. (Two handed is not freehand as neither hand is free)
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Sorry I meant to type freestyle...I mostly shoot in the Action Pistol arena. As a matter of fact he started out in Bullseye competition and attributes his ability to shoot tiny groups to early exposure to a copy of a book on shooting technique...Competitive Shooting - A. A. Yur'yev

You describe a man who can outshoot the national champions. Do we know his name? Who is this fellow? I am not sarcastic....it pains me whenever I see or hear about someone who is described as a great talent and who has apparently not aspired to the highest levels that his talent would reasonably take him.
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His name is Bruce Gray of Grayguns in OR. He is an elite 1911 gunsmith (he built the first compensated 1911 for Devel) and the foremost expert on the SIG action in the country. He used to be a factory shooter for H&K (he made the long slide compensated P7M13) and SIG before a medical condition caused him to retire. He represented the USA in the IPSC World Championship several times.

There is a Youtube video clip of him in the Bianchi Cup shoot-off last year with Rob Leatham...they are old friends.

He wrote the article on Dry Fire practice in the third link in my signature

The same is true about air pistol match shooting - that marvelous game of tens. It is all about discipline and precision - why would anyone aspire to less?
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As a matter of fact, Bruce used to compete in 10 Metre Air Pistol also. He says it is the ultimate test of good follow-through after the shot breaks
 
I agree!

People should aspire for excellence in everything they do.

I'm not happy if all five rounds don't go into an inch at ten yards consistently, standing/unsupported. Then again, at age 61 my eyes aren't what they used to be.

That ratio means 2 1/2" group @ 25 yards, 3" at 30 yards, 10" at 100. Decent shooting, but surely not exceptional.

To the OP, I WOULD recommend two things:

1. Lots of bench shooting until your grip and trigger mechanics are perfect, then transfer it carefully to your unsupported shooting.

2. Do a lot of shooting with a chamber or two unloaded. Spin the cylinder until there's no way you know when it won't fire. Do it over and over until you don't milk the gun or flinch or blink with the gun fails to go off. Then, you'll see your offhand shooting REALLY tighten up. You should see the muzzle flash with each shot, if not, you aren't shooting very well that day!!! LOL
 
In my experience, that ratio computation does not work like one would think and groups get much larger than computed.
 
9mm: Thanks for the background about Mr. Gray. That name rings a bell.
+1 about the Yur'yev book.
Pete
 
Pete D. said:
9mm: Thanks for the background about Mr. Gray. That name rings a bell.
+1 about the Yur'yev book.
Pete
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I thought you might find this interesting (posted on Facebook), it is only at 12 yards rather than 15.

This is a ratty, ancient 1914 Ruby .32 Spanish-French service pistol. That was offhand, fired with an 8-pound trigger and rude barleycorn sights, no less. Ruby: The new accuracy standard. -Bruce

Rubypistoljpg.jpg

I consider this exceptional. I think of myself as a competent shot, but certainly nothing close to this level. For those who aren't familiar with Barleycorn sights...they could be generously called challenging
 
9mmepiphany said:
I consider this exceptional
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Ya think? :eek: :rolleyes: I'm surprised the gun itself was capable of anything close to that. :eek:

I had the opportunity to take a class with Bruce while he was in our area. Unfortunately, I had a scheduling conflict. My loss, it seems. :(
 
i know this is mainly about shooting DA but I've been playing with revolver in single action. Here is the best I've done at 10 yards.
This wasn't fast by any means but the 3 shots were done well under 10 seconds. A .357 casing is shown for comparison.

The round low and left was an attempt at speed DA shooting from before. Lots of room to improve there.

Ruger GP100 with .357. 6lb trigger and 8lb hammer spring IIRC. Off hand

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In IDPA and IPSC it is said that masters are made at 25 yards. The reason behind it is, that it is not really easy to hit the A-zone at that distance and a shooter that gets over 90% at ISSF matches is representing a very, very small percentage of shooters.
 
Define

This is a ratty, ancient 1914 Ruby .32 Spanish-French service pistol. That was offhand, fired with an 8-pound trigger and rude barleycorn sights, no less. Ruby: The new accuracy standard. -Bruce
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Very fine shooting.
Ques.: When you say "offhand", do you mean standing two handed or standing one hand unsupported? Over the years, I have come to realize that we don't all mean the same things when we use common terms. That group from that firearm is exceptional in any case.
Pete
 
When you say "offhand", do you mean standing two handed or standing one hand unsupported?
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That was his word in his posting on Facebook.

In that community/culture, offhand is used to indicate neither supported (barricade), rested (range bag/bench) or prone.

So usually standing, two-handed, without external support...just standing up, holding the gun in both hands and pressing the trigger
 
I must not have understood post #10. I thought you wrote:

9mmepiphany said:
Having said that, at 15 yards, standing and holding the gun in both hands, shooting DA, I work with clients to keep 5 rounds inside 1", with the goal to have them all touch, while taking their time shooting
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What do you estimate the group size is in post #32? Do you believe that it would stay the same if you increase the distance 25% to 15 yards?
 
I think it more likely you don't understand post #32...read the italicized portion again

I'd guess the group as .5"

Here is what a 1"...actually 1.1"... group looks like

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Accuracy

This is probably not a fair measure of accuracy....scores from an elite shooter and using a semi-auto as opposed to a revolver, a Marvel .22 conversion on a 1911 frame but as a sense of the possible....at the National Matches at Camp Perry this Summer, John Zurek shot a new national record of 893/900-41X for .22 rim fire. That is a loss of only seven points over 90 shots one hand unsupported. Thirty of those shots are at a 50 yard Bullseye with a three inch ten ring. The other sixty are shot at 25 yards with the same size ten ring. Nine ten point targets, obviously a few of them had to be clean targets and the rest 99s (or some similar impressive combination)
Pete
 
I've been shooting my S&W revolvers DA-only for a while now.
All combined (.22 LR - .38Spl - .357 Mag - .44 Sp) (barrels ranging from 2" to 6") my average at 15 meters is 2.5 - 3inches.
I for one am pleased with this.
& as my ol pal Stan-the-Gunman used to say "Does it actually matter if I hit an oponent's left eye rather than his right ?"
 
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