What's happening to Kimber quality?

[Sean Smith]

I speak as an ex-Kimber owner who had a very nice Classic Stainless Target Model (pre-Series II). Uber-accurate and reliable with most (if not all) ammo I tried it with, and it looked NICE.

Fast forward a bunch of years. I go into the gun store and look at the latest batch of Series II Kimbers. Ug! The guns are visibly uglier, with a coarser matte finish, more poorly fitted, and just seem crappier all-around. Sympathetic reviews from gun rags full of Kimber ads put accuracy in the 3" @ 25 yard range, or about half as accurate as the Kimber I had a few years ago... not to mention notably worse than the basic Colt 01991 I picked up in 2002.

Starting with a pro-Kimber bias, I can't see myself getting a Series II gun now.

 

[HogRider]

I have some experience with 1911s. Owned several Colts (Series 70, 80 Gold Cup), Para Ordnance, Springfield, and others over the last 2 years. I never had a Kimber before. Well I happened to buy a Stainless Target II recently. So far I have fired a total of about 550 rounds through it and I love that gun. I don't know where all this bad talk about Kimber is coming from suddenly, but I can honestly that this is the tightest fitted and nicest finished 1911 I have owned in a long time - if not ever. I admit I have never owned a Series I Kimber, so I can't compare.

Just my 2 Cents.

 

[Rupestris]

HogRider,
I'm right there with ya. I bought a Target II when the II's first came out. (there was no bad press regarding the additional safety or the MIM parts at the time. January 2002) I have over 1000 rounds through mine and its been perfect.
I know, only 1000 rounds or so isn't much over two years but I've made a New-Years resolution to put 2000 more rounds through it this year.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I also SERIOUSLY doubt the 70% return rate.

That would be 28,000 guns of every 40,000 going back to the company for reworking, and those kinds of reliability issues would kill the company on two fronts -- in public opinion and in warranty work costs.

 

[LynnKCircle]

Kimber CDP Pro

Well, you can''t generalize from one example, and I've only owned one 1911-.45, a Kimber CPD Pro which I bought in February, 2003. So far I've put about 1500 rounds through it.

The ONLY reliability issues came with aftermarket 8-round magazines. The 7-round factory mag has functioned flawlessly with everything. I finally got some Metalform 8-round magazines which like the 185 gr HP's I carry in it, and haven't had any problems with them.

Break-in and practice were with Wolfe 230gn fmj. Some people have speculated that the steel cases will cause the ejector to break. So far I haven't had any problems and I figure that the cost of an ejector is more than made up for the $6.00 I pay per fox of 50. Even more to consider -- WWII GI ammo was all steel-cased, and look how long the WWII 1911's have lasted.

Accuracy has been far better than any other CF pistol I've owned. I think that is more due to the SA trigger and ergonomics, rather than due to any inherent difference. The only handgun I can consistently shoot with more accuracy is a Ruger BP Old Army.

As to the finish -- it's held up well EXCEPT where I have bumbled putting the slide release lever back through the hole in the link. I did have to reblacken that area.

Your mileage may vary. I have have been lucky. However, I am happy with the gun, both for shooting and carrying.

 

[Kruzr]

You know what I see in this thread? I see some Kimber dealers with an agenda

And you would be wrong again.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Recently bought a Stainless Gold Series II pistol:

- more accurate than me

- 1000 rounds thru it and its still tight; no failures of any kind

- finish was good; work of art

No complaints other than when I pay $1200 for a gun, it damn well better be perfect!

 

[355sigfan]

I bought one of the first series 1 guns and its working great. So they did not always make crap. LAPD SWAT seems to be very happy as does Tacoma PD.
Pat

 

[dsk]

Now, to keep the prices low, Kimber, as well as many other manufacturers, has turned to MIM to make many of the small parts. Unfortunately, MIM and cast parts are more prone to breaking than milled parts.

Kimber has ALWAYS used MIM small parts from day one. They just didn't use to break all the time.

 

[tex_n_cal]

I had a Series I stainless Gold Match...still the most expensive gun I have ever bought. Very accurate, but needed a trigger job and jammed as soon as it got a little dirty. The sandblasting was carried over into areas that should have been left smoothly machined. Sold.

I bought a Colt Gold Cup - It also needed a trigger job, but shoots just as well as the Kimber, has never jammed, and cost me $500 less. No brainer.

My brother has bought 3 SII Kimbers - a Eclipse Target, a Pro Eclipse, and a Pro CDP. The first two are fine, the last one jams and the hammer follows through, doesn't stay cocked. That makes one out of three $1000 guns that is a reject.

If Kimber gets the 10mm certified in California, I will buy one, because I like the caliber & old Colts are hard to come by in this state. I will expect to work on it myself, however.

I have seven Colts, and consider all of them good guns, except for a .40 Double Eagle which I knew was a project from the start.

My .38 Super Springfield is an excellent gun, but a friend's TRP Operator chokes regularly, despite its $1300 price tag.

 

[HD]

i should clarify the above post since it seems to cause confusion ...
the 'return' rate includes all the poor bastiches who realise they bought a marginal POS and resell it asap...
( Para-ho-de-dunce is even worse)...
i did not intend to say 70% of ALL kimbers were going back , more likely on the order of 20-22% are defective ...
i would never buy a kimber or para-ho when colt and SA are available...

 

[Tamara]

Never tell someone that their kid is ugly...

For starters, I am a happy Kimber owner (Series I Custom Classic, S/N K007xxx.)

I also work at the shop that Marko ref'd in his post. We are a Kimber Master Dealer, so obviously I'd like to sell these guns. Still, though...

1) We've had a Gold Match II in for a while now. This is a $1k+ gun when all is said and done, and it has a plastic MSH and the matte rounds look like they were bead-blasted with railroad ballast. Considering that for a bit more you are in entry-level Wilson/Baer/Valtro territory, this is unsat.

2) We have a used Series II Custom Classic on the shelf on which the "dot matrix" serial number and maker's name on the frame looks like it was done by a drunk with a home electric pen kit. No two letters are the same size, nor are they on remotely parallel horizontal lines.

3) The two Al-framed Kimbers we just got in (Pro Carry and Ultra Carry) have frames that look like they were gnawed on by angry beavers. Maybe Kimber thought the sulfuric acid in the anodizing process would etch the toolmarks off the alloy? They could also maybe go with a better-looking finish on the frames than silver Krylon...

4) The engraved script "Kimber" logo on the slides of most of the guns looks wretched, and is the worst on our Ultra Ten II, where it is so full of chatter marks that the edges look as though they were deliberately scalloped. This is unsat.

5) The gap between the beavertail and tang on the new Custom Classic II is nearly .1". On a gun in this price range, this is unsat; it would be acceptable on, say, a Firestorm or Charles Daly.

On the positive side:

1) The guns still appear to be mechanically tight.

2) The TLE II is cosmetically adequate, with a decent fit to all parts.

3) On the few internal extractor guns we recieved, Kimber is apparently still taking the time to fit the extractors to the rear of the slide. When this is not done, it's a major pet peeve of mine, and Springfield is a frequent culprit.



Overall: The fit, finish, and attention to cosmetic detail that used to distinguish Kimber from Colt and Springfield doesn't seem to be there anymore. This doesn't make me happy, as I'd thought Kimber had pulled out of the fit'n'finish slump they were in three years ago, but they seem to have stumbled back into it. Folks seduced by a name may not notice this stuff, but discerning 1911 buffs with disposable income sure do, and with Kimbers being priced on the north side of most Springfields and many Colts, lapses like this aren't going to do wonders for the bottom line in Yonkers.

 

[Denny Hansen]

I'll echo Mike here, as to popularity/QC.

I have three Kimbers--one a Series II--and they all run like freight trains.

OTOH, I know of three, bought separately by three brothers in three different states, and none made it through a class a Gunsite. One wouldn't go bang out of the box due to the firing pin channel being drilled off center.

Today I saw a Wilson 1911, that cost twice what the Kimbers cost, being repaired at the Gunsmithy due to a magazine release drilled off-center--among other problems...

There were a lot of Ford Pintos sold, but only a fraction of them acutally blew up. Good and bad in all, but we usually only hear about the bad.

Denny

 

[SnWnMe]

Early Kimber Pro Carry HDII. Great trigger, well fitted, reliable and accurate. But it needs a new recoil spring every 800 rounds!

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have only one Kimber, but it's the short one, the Ultra CDP II. It works flawlessly and I carry it all the time. It is also a beautiful gun, exactly what I wanted. I also have 2 Colts, a Delta Elite which I love, and a Mark IV which originally cost me $459 NIB, but had an additional $450 worth of add-ons to make it the reliable tack-driver my CDP is. Actually it was pretty reliable from the start, but inaccurate and uncomfortable as hell.

Strange, I hear all this bad news about Kimber on here, when it's Springfield's quality everybody is screaming about at work. 2 more just today. That's 1 in 5 so far that is happy with their purchase!

 

[denfoote]

Notice how all the Kimber praise is coming from Kimber owners and the criticism from the non Kimber owners?

Envy rears its ugly head.

As most of you know, I bought my first 1911 this summer.
I did my homework and left the Kimber in the dealer's case.
My FFL is a master Kimber dealer and even they said to buy the Springfield!!!

They would have made more money off the Kimber sale!!

Go figure!!

 

[9x19]

Clearly they were saving "the good stuff" for those 1911 afficionados who could appreciate it.

Though I'm sure they appreciate your helping them clear the slow movers out of their case!

 

[Rob96]

Though I'm sure they appreciate your helping them clear the slow movers out of their case!

You know, funny thing is, I went thru the same thing this past June. Out of all of them I went with a NRM Colt. The Kimber TLE II's are still sitting there. I was steered from the more expensive Kimber to the Colt. Which is the slow mover?

 

[WonderNine]

And you would be wrong again.

Brilliant retort!

 

[IrvJr]

Kimber Pro Eclipse II

I can only speak from my personal experience, but I own a Kimber Pro Eclipse II and it's my overall favorite gun. I've probably shot 1500 to 2000 rounds so far and I haven't had any problems with the gun. I am really impressed with the quality of the gun - it's very solid and accurate. Before the Pro Eclipse, I owned a Colt XS Commander (that I also bought new). Although the XS was a nice pistol, I still prefer the Kimber. The Colt rattled when I shook it, but the Kimber is solid. The Colt ejected semi-eratically (probably needed a new extractor or existing extractor tuned), while the Kimber tosses the spent cases consistently.

My Kimber was built at least 2 years ago, so maybe their quality has degraded lately. However, I've seen some new Kimbers in some local shops and they look quite nice and well-finished.

Just recently, for instance, I handled a new Kimber tactical something Commander-length pistol (alloy frame, external extractor) in the store. It seemed very well built and well finished. I've also recently seen two brand new Colt series 70 reissue pistols. One looked nicely finished, but the other looked poorly finished and appeared to have marks along the slide (near the dust cover).

 

[MarauderLS1]

Speaking from owning a few Kimbers in the past few years, I have noticed some varying quality. I had a CDP full-size that would only work with Wilson mags, aside from that it fired and fed everything fine. I like the weapon and carried it alot. Decided to go with a smaller piece for summer carry and got the commander sized CDP. Again, worked great with wilson mags, but it also had the extractor break, and the ejector came off, leaving its legs stuck in the frame. I had it repaired and traded it for a Series One Classic custom. This weapon worked fine with ANY mag, however the only hollow-point it fed flawlessly was Hydrashok, it choked on every other style. I fired about 3,000rnds thru it and was very pleased. I wound up giving it to my father. More recently I picked up a TLE II, to say the least, I had poor results. The night sights went dead, the extractor had NO tension on it, and the plunger tube came off at 400rnds, and the gun would lock open with regularity with rounds still in the magazine. Topped it off with the fact it would have the whole spectrum of feed malfunctions with any brand of magazine. It went away and in came a TLE II with rails and external extractor. So far 1200rnds without any glitches at all, it feeds ball ammo fine with factory mags, and feeds everything with Wilson Mags. In looking over various Kimber models at my local shops, some seem very well done, while others make an Armscor look like a custom shop deal. They do make a nice product, they just need to get back to doing it consistantly.

 

[Hawaiian]

OK, here is a newbie look at this. I have been wanting a 1911 for awhile and read all the forums trying to find one that had a reputation for doing what it is supposed to every time. Like what I get from my Ruger GP100, my Glock 19, my Sig 232. I have come to realize that this type of quality in a 1911 does not exist in any brand according to the reports on the forums.
I do not like the idea of spending $800. on a gun that does not work without being "fixed" by my smith. Would you by a car that must be reworked before it would run the way it is supposed to?
Rant off: I will probably break down and get a Dan Wesson Patriot just because I really want a 1911. Then I can swear at myself for doing so.

 

[tommyc]

I recently bought my first 1911's last month. A Kimber Custom II Stainless and a Compact II Stainless. I have about 850 rds through the 5in gun and 550 through the Compact. The fit and finish on both guns are very good. They both shoot very accurately. During the first 250 rounds, the Custom II wouldn't return fully into battery a few times, but that problem disappeared. I've been one happy camper so far.

 

[davidtdm]

How can one tell when the kimber was made. I asume there is a code in the serial number. ( or I could look for the box that it came in) anyway, I'm just currious. I bought my Pro Cary HD II last February. I've put about 5,000 rounds through it. I've had about 5 or 6 FTE (due to the aftermarket mags). I've read the posts where folks say the etching is off or bad. I just don't se it. Anyway, to me that is all cosmetic. I guess I got one that was in the good batch. I'm completly satisfied. I've also shot a SA, and a Colt, both of wich are pretty comparable to my kimber. (size, weight, etc.) I would feel comfortable carring any one of them. I chose the kimber for carry simply because it fit the best.

Can anyone, or does anyone have any hard numbers on Kimber sales, returns, quality issues etc. I think it's realy silly to argue about such things without having real stats. Sorry for the goofy rant. I'm a former quality control guy.

..dave

 

[Fed168]

Gee, and I thought I had two that were built on a Monday. The first one I owned, bought in '97, started choking on hardball but fed HPs and went back to the factory. Came back with a tuned extractor and choked on everything. Off if went.

Had a CDP in '00 that kept locking open while firing. For a more expensive model, I thought the bugs should have been worked out. Apparently not. And so off it went.

I don't love or hate Kimbers, just disappointed. The biggest selling point on the first one was a 1911 with everything that needed to be on it and not pay big bucks.

I figured that since they were new to the 1911 game, there were some bugs in the first series of guns, and should have been fixed a couple years into production.

That really turned me off to the 1911 for awhile- until chancing on a SA Loaded and an SW- both have been great to shoot. And a heck of a lot more reliable.