What's the advantage of 3" shells?

[kingpin008]

So, my question is pretty much exactly what the subject line states - what is the advantage of 3'' shotgun shells over the more common 2 3/4'' type?

I've heard plenty about how different the recoil is, but not so much why the 3'' are any more or less useful.

Sorry if this has been posted about before, but the search function has been hit-and-miss lately for me, and I wasn't able to find much.

Thanks!

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

usually, the only difference is a little more velocity and a longer shell. Check the velocities on the carton, usually they are only 50-150 fps faster than 2 3/4. They usually kick a little harder, proportional to the increase in velocity.

oh yeah, and they usually cost more

I used the word usually a lot in this post, but you get the picture......usually

 

[ArmedBear]

Steel shot is lighter than lead, so it takes more room per ounce. So you need a bigger hull to hold it.

There are 3" lead and even 3.5" lead shells that may be useful for turkey or something, but overloading a shotgun can just wreck the pattern (3" isn't such a big deal, but 3.5" shells are WAY oversquare).

 

[kingpin008]

Interesting. So in all reality, they're really not that useful?

I ask, because I'm planning on picking up a used 500 or 870 sometime soon, and have an offer from a friend to purchase a goodly amount (300-400 rounds or so) of shells that he has left over after getting rid of his shotgun recently. What he has is a mix of slugs and buckshot, in both 2 3/4'' and 3'' lengths.

I'm trying to figure out if I want the 3'' or not, heh.

 

[ArmedBear]

Slugs and buckshot are a bit different.

Buckshot is big. You get a few more pellets (12 vs. 9 I think) of 00 Buck in a 3 vs. a 2 3/4". You also get a larger slug in a 3". That means the 3" shells actually do offer a bit more, if you have a good recoil pad.

I was referring mostly to birdshot hunting loads.

 

[zinj]

3" can hold a greater payload and throw it at higher velocity. As ArmedBear said, this is most important when using steel for waterfowl, as steel is bulkier that lead for a given payload.

I'd get a gun with a 3" chamber unless there is one you really want that is 2.75". It is nice to have the added versatility and otherwise the guns are usually identical (3" chambers have been the standard for many years on everything but target guns and certain automatics that cannot handle the added pressure).

Buckshot is big. You get a few more pellets (12 vs. 9 I think) of 00 Buck in a 3 vs. a 2 3/4".

15 in 3" vs. 12 in a 2.75" 12 gauge. The "standard" load for 2.75in 00 Buck is 9 pellets though.

You also get a larger slug in a 3".

No, you can get 1.25oz slugs for 2.75in. The 3" can give more velocity to a slug (which in my opinion is rather pointless, even the fastest slugs lose velocity quickly and remain a short range proposition).

I would say that 3" slugs and buckshot are overrated, in the sense that they do not give a good ratio of power to recoil/controlability.

 

[kingpin008]

Hm. I see what you mean. I'll definetly get a gun with a 3'' chamber no matter what I do, I was mainly just wondering what the scoop was with the larger shells.

Thanks for the info, fellas. I think I'll just go ahead and take whatever he's got off his hands, heh.

 

[rcmodel]

It has nothing to do with velocity.
Steel shot loads have to start out faster because they slow down faster.
Lead shot 3" is loaded to comparable velocity as 2 3/4 inch shells.

If you are going duck or goose hunting, the steel shot 3" will be what you want, and have to use, due to the Federal lead-shot ban on migatory birds.

If they are 3" Mag lead shot, they won't be much fun to shoot!

As for 00 Buckshot, you get 3 or 6 more pellets in a 3" Mag, (9 or 12 vis 15), but recoil will hammer you, and the magazine tube will hold one less shell.


rcmodel

 

[foghornl]

For heavy-duty applications, like "overhead-pass-shooting" of waterfowl, or some turkey hunting, the 3" ammo has its uses.

Now, in MY shotgun, I get the best patterns with #4Buck, 3" Remington brand. Haven't found any appreciable accuracy difference in 3" slugs, but the 3" slugs give a lot more THUMP! on the shooter's end..

 

[ArmedBear]

The 3" can give more velocity to a slug (which in my opinion is rather pointless, even the fastest slugs lose velocity quickly and remain a short range proposition).

Well, they do use 3" hulls to make high-velocity, accurate, longer-range sabot slugs, also. So it also depends on what you mean by slugs (and whether you have or want a rifled barrel).

 

[zinj]

It has nothing to do with velocity.
Steel shot loads start out faster because they slow down faster.
Lead shot 3" is loaded to comparable velocity as 2 3/4 inch shells.

Yes, in some loads it does. To really see if you have to look at 3.5in super magnums. There is a popular 3.5in load of 1.375oz steel shot at 1550 FPS. THe same load can be found in a 3in shell at 1300 FPS.

Well, they do use 3" hulls to make high-velocity, accurate, longer-range sabot slugs, also. So it also depends on what you mean by slugs (and whether you have or want a rifled barrel).

Yes, I should have prefaced that to say rifled slugs don't particularly benefit from increased velocity.

 

[kingpin008]

For the record, I won't be using these for any type of hunting. At the most, I'll be smashing some clays and water jugs, heh. Also home defense, but I also have my 1911 for that, so it's not my only option.

That being said, I've already learned a lot!

 

[zinj]

If you are just target shooting and HD purposes 2.75in is the best bet. I would still plink with the 3" rounds, but the recoil on them is too heavy to be optimal for self defense.

 

[kingpin008]

Duly noted.

 

[ArmedBear]

zinj- It's a worthwhile question to ask, though, whether that load patterns worth shi'ite.

Olympic trapshooters shoot relatively high velocity loads, but they have 24 grams (under 7/8 oz.) of shot in a 12 Gauge. They get great patterns. However, twice as much shot going even faster might not look so great.

1.375 oz. of steel shot is quite a bit. More than a 12 Gauge shoots with great patterns. That's the same amount of shot (by volume or pellet count) as 2 oz. of lead.

The reason for a shotgun's bore size is to match it to the amount of shot used with that bore. There's been a tendency to put more and more shot in a shell for a given bore size. Marketing, I think. It sells shells and shotguns with big chambers.

Few guys who are really into shotgunning, and have done a lot of loading and patterning, etc., are interested in a 2 oz. load, at least for a moving target.

 

[jmr40]

To say that 1.375 oz. of steel has the same number of pellets as 2 oz of lead probably is true if the pellets are the same size. The problem is that since steel is lighter than lead most hunters move up 2 shot sizes in steel to get each pellet to weigh roughly the same. Before steel shot was required 2 3/4" #4 lead shot was a pretty good duck load in my area. With steel shot you need to move up to #2 shot to get the same performance on the target. Then you need to move up to the 3" shell to get enough pellets in the pattern. That is how it works in theory anyway.

 

[ArmedBear]

The problem is that since steel is lighter than lead most hunters move up 2 shot sizes in steel to get each pellet to weigh roughly the same.

That is true, but it doesn't help your patterns when you go THAT far over a square load.

3" is an unfortunate necessity. Too much shot for the bore size doesn't pattern well regardless of the metal, however. There's a balancing act.

 

[zinj]

zinj- It's a worthwhile question to ask, though, whether that load patterns worth shi'ite.

I never said that such loads pattern well (though they do have their fair share of adherents), I was just using them as an example of longer shells that are used to increase velocity rather than payload.

 

[Frog48]

Last duck season, I bought a box of 3.5" BB steel shot, just for laughs... I shooting with my Mossberg 835, and let me tell you that it'll remind you if you have poor form; due to unintentional laziness, I made the mistake of shouldering against my bicep all day. It hurt like heck, and left a very sizable, colorful bruise.

Normally I shoot 3" for duck, and honestly it doesnt feel much different than 2.75". However when you make the jump to 3.5", the difference is quite noticeable.

 

[another okie]

The main advantage of 3" shells is that it shortens your range session, so you can get to the beer faster.

 

[sargenv]

When I was starting out loading ammo, I thought to myself, "self, let's think up the most awesome recoiling load ever" so at the time 3" was it. Yep, 2 ounces of shot in an Activ all plastic hull.. Um, ouch. Then I started doing some research. Since I was also loading ammo for hunting, at the time I could launch a 1 1/8 ounce payload in a 3" hull at over 150 fps more than I could in the 2 3/4 " hull. As time went on some of the manufacturers picked up that velocity in steel shot is better than total payload and they started coming out with loads that only held 1 1/8 ounce of shot but launced at 1550 fps (Kent Fast Steel) and there were more modern powders that allowed them to load faster steel.

Back in the days of Lead shot though, THE 3" load was actually a lightweight. 1 3/8 ounces of 2's or 4's in a 3" hull at 1400 fps and it was absolutely awesome on ducks and geese at extreme ranges. The 1 5/8 load usually trucked along at around 1275 and the monster load of 1 7/8 ounces barely made 3 dram skeet velocity of 1200 fps. Personally, on fast moving birds, I wanted something to stop them in mid air and the 1 3/8 load was it. Of course, this translates to 1 ounce of steel shot. So 1 1/8 can be thought of pellet wise as 1 1/2 ounces. I no longer actually load steel shot since the price has come down and performance has gotten better.

On another note if you want to load slugs or buckshot, I had a 3" load for slugs that allowed you to load 2 (two) slugs, one on top of another, and the velocity was in the range of 1300 fps. Hard to do in a 2 3/4" shell, but the 3" shell had all the extra room needed. Another specialty load utilized a 7/8 ounce slug and 6 pellets of 00 buck. It hurt on both ends but was kind of fun to play with.

The 3.5" hull for the 12 was mostly a marketing ploy. A lot of wildlife areas prohibited 10 gauges. The 3.5" 12 allowed people to get near 10 gauge performance in a gun that could be used in the various federal and state wildlife areas. I never felt a need for one but if you want one, go right ahead.

 

[Owen Sparks]

With buckshot, longer 3"shells mean more shot. Not more velocity. In fact, velocity is often a lower from the 3" shells.

00 buck 2 3/4" has 9 or 12 pellets. 3" have 15. pellet size is .33

#4 buck in 2 3/4" have 27 pellets 3" have 41. size is .24

#1 buck-2 3/4" have 16 while 3" have 24. size is .30

 

[Steve C]

Owen Sparks is correct. The 3" shell only gives you more shot, IE a heavier load than you can get into a 2-3/4". The velocities are proportionally slower. In the old days I loaded a 1-5/8oz load using a Blue Versalite wad and Blue Dot powder in a 2-3/4" AA or Super X hull for a "baby magnum". This load ran at 1,340fps according to the load book. I did get a chance to run it over a chrono (pretty rare in 1975) and it was right at what the manual said. It was a real long range duck killer in those days loaded with #5 lead shot. Had one stout kick to it also. Better than a match for most 3" load sold today. I gave up duck hunting when I moved to AZ in '82 and they quit making blue Versalite wads around the same time. Still have a partial box of them in the closet.

 

[macadore]

IIRC, the 3 inch was introduced to make the 12 gauge more competitive with the 10 gauge for goose hunting. With the introduction of steel shot the 12 gauge was, once again, considered a little light so the 3.5 inch shell was introduced. Unless you are shooting large birds, there is no advantage to 3 inch shell and some downsides. In addition to costing more, the 3 inch shell recoils more and slows down follow up shots. I suspect a 3 inch shell would disintegrate a quail at close ranges.