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What's the best AR for an AR noob?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by P.B.Walsh, Jun 8, 2009.

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  1. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Ok, I'm looking to get an AR with a 20" barrel, and I got a few questions.

    (now keep in mind that I have only fired 30 rounds through an AR-15 in my entire life, so I couldn't tell a difference between a Del-Ton and a LMT, I'm just looking for one that'll be good to me, I'm not going to war with this AR-15, I'm just gonna be hunting, and target shooting with it)

    What's the best AR for the money (preferably under 1k)?

    Do I really need a A4 upper (note: I do not have money for an Acog, Aimpoint, etc., ect.) if I do jet a A4 upper then I'm adding an A2 style rear sight.

    Would a A2 upper be just fine?

    The companies I'm looking at is: Del-Ton, DPMS, or CMMG.


    Please help me out. Thank you in advance. :)
     
  2. edelbrock

    edelbrock Member

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    For hunting and target shooting for under 1K, I would go with a DPMS Panther Bull 20. Great accuracy and since you are not going to war with it you shouldn't mind the extra weight.
     
  3. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Well, I REALLY want to use irons, I want to have at least the A2 front sight post.

    And I'm worried about the .223 when using 5.56x45mm NATO ammo, should I be worried about this?


    Thanks :)
     
  4. edelbrock

    edelbrock Member

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    Yeah you are not supposed to shoot 5.56 in a .223. Never heard of a problem in doing so but it is not recommended due to the different pressure specs. Yeah the Panther Bull is not the best choice if you want to use irons. Maybe the Panther DCM but I do not have experience with that one.
     
  5. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Can you shoot .223 out of a 5.56x45mm NATO?

    I aimed through a A4 (or A3?) Bushmaster, and I noticed the front sight post was a bit wide, so, my question is; how many inches at 100 yards does the front sight post (not the wings) equate to?

    How many inches does the whole front sight post (post+wings) equate to at 100 yards?

    I did in fact look at the DCM, but how much better is DPMS than Del-Ton? Is there a $100-$200 difference?

    What's the wait time on DPMS?

    Sorry for all of the questions, but thanks. :)

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  6. edelbrock

    edelbrock Member

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    Yes
    Never had any experience with the Del-Ton. I can say that I did have a feeding problem with the DPMS but they took very good care of me. Great customer support.
     
  7. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    For under a grand I'd take a look at S&W. Also, Southern Ohio gun had some Bushmasters for about eight and half bills a month or so ago. It'd be worth a call to them. No need to hurry with your purchase, prices are on their way down.
     
  8. drgrenthum

    drgrenthum Member

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    IMHO get the delton with the flat top a eotech 512 and a flip up backup iron sight co-witnessed. You should be able to get all that for about $1000. Yes you can use .223 in a 5.56 chamber. Check out ar15.com for more useful info
     
  9. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

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    A good, economy - but quality rifle - is Doublestar. Picked mine up through Centerfire Systems, @ $750 last December.

    Shoots better than I can. Am very pleased with fit & finish.

    Q
     
  10. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Ok, I'm sold on 5.56.

     
  11. Arbor

    Arbor Member

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    So far my 16" Stag has been 100% reliable (only 300-400ish rounds but no cleaning) and I can just squeeze 1MOA out of it with mid-grade .223 ammo and a crappy Bushnell Banner. The 20" should be just as good. I consider it a good buy, they go for about $900-1100 usually.
     
  12. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Wow, 300-400 rounds without cleaning, I didn't know that the DI were that reliable, that's WAY more rounds than I would fire during a whole year!!!!!
     
  13. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    I've fired thousands of rounds of Wolf through my ARs and never had a problem. I'm not exactly finicky about cleaning them either. A quality AR will be reliable.
     
  14. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Ok, so between Doublestar, Del-Ton, CMMG, Bushmaster, and DPMS, which one is the best? And then, which one is best for it's price?

    Thanks :)
     
  15. Arbor

    Arbor Member

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    Good modern AR15s are actually pretty reliable (all those tax payer dollars into R&D for the military :D). I do really slather the bolt with oil, apparently they like this. I'm planning to run mine for maybe 500 rounds then clean it, just to see what happens.
     
  16. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Again, which upper should I get, A2 or A4?

    Thanks :)
     
  17. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    PB I am doing the same thing you are. I am kicking around the idea of getting an AR.

    I looked at a Bushmaster at the local Academy. It was a lightweight with a 16" barrel and chrome lined. It had the fixed carry handle and a collaspible butt stock. $999 plus taxes. I liked the light weight and hated the buttstock.

    I am also looking at the DPMS A2 classic. I like everything about it except it is listed as weighing 9 pounds. That too heavey for a 223 caliber rifle IMO.

    I was looking in a Shotgun News at WM today and someone had them listed for $755. I have seen them on GB for $799. I think the seller was Northern Firearms. They have several listed for that price.

    I have a new mini and a remington 7615 and both shoot very well. I don't know that I can justify owning another 223 rifle. I forgot, I have an H&R that I bought a month ago and haven't even fired yet. I have been busy and am heading out of town again tomorrow.
     
  18. punkndisorderly

    punkndisorderly Member

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    If you KNOW you want to shoot iron sights, go for a plane jane A2. The match rifles are a little more accurate, but they are also much heavier and the sights, while slightly more accurate are also tend to fatigue the eyes a bit (at least in my experience with my 2 match rifles).

    If you're not positive, go for something like the Armalite M15A4 (SPR). Add a detachable carry handle and detachable front sight and you're ready to roll. If you find you want to go with a Eotech, Aimpoint, ACOG later on, just remove the carry handle.

    I wouldn't get too bogged down with the brands and such. I tend to feel 99% of the AR's out there will do just fine for 99% of shooters. If you were one of the 1%, you wouldn't be asking. You'd already know what you're looking for.

    I own Armalite, Bushmaster, and Rock River and have spent a lot of time with Colts and Remingtons and have never had an issue with any of them.
     
  19. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    A2 vs A4 is completely a matter of personal preference. If your rifle is going to wear optics most of the time, the flat top might be the best option. If not, the A2.

    As for the brands you mention, I have no idea. I haven't dealt personally with all of them. Of the ones on your list, Bushmaster might have the best combination of quality and customer service.

    Again, though, I would do your research and shop around. With prices falling there is absolutely no reason to jump on the first AR you see.

    ar15.com can be a good source of information, but will make you feel inadequate if you buy anything other than Colt, LMT, LWRC, Noveske, etc.
     
  20. Arbor

    Arbor Member

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    Personally, I would get the A4 type upper, and I'm glad I did even though I didn't originally plan to use optics. Because the only way to take full advantage of your rifles accuracy is to use a scope of some sort, and if you want to put one on later you will be really glad you have the flat-top. And if you don't, you will still have perfectly serviceable iron sights that are equal to the A2 style.

    Just my .02¢
     
  21. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Any of the brands you are looking at will serve your purposes just fine. I would concentrate on finding the features you want at a good price rather than the brand at this point.

    As for upper, get the A4. You can always add a carry handle to an A4; but you can't change an A2 carry handle without swapping the receiver.

    Add to this that an A4 can also use all different kinds of iron sights, not just optics.

    A lot of the weight in those type of ARs comes from the heavy barrel (HBAR) profile. Manufacturers like them because they are cheaper to manufacture; but they add a lot of weight for a tiny bit of extra rigidity (a 16" HBAR weighs more than a 20" government profile barrel).

    A government profile barrel, M4 profile, medium or lightweight contour are definitely the way to go.

    Take a look at the Rifle Forum Reading Library, there is a lot of good information there.
     
  22. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    I accually want the weight, does Bushmaster make HBAR's, I kinds like their compitition model. How much is that Armalite?

    Thanks, and please keep the replies coming. :)
     
  23. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    If you are target shooting I would look at an RRA NM model. With good ammo they guarantee that it will hold .75MOA if you are up to it. I am partial to the RRA NM trigger as well. I have had an RRA, a del-ton parts rifle, and a Stag. I liked the RRA trigger the best, all three have been absolutely reliable outside of one issue that was caused by a mag that was shot. Replaced the mag and never had another issue in any of the rifles. I probably run 500 rounds or so through between cleanings though I do spray them down with CLP when they get dry. I can't say which really shot the best as the RRA was scoped, the Del-ton was only used up close blasting, and the Stag is too new and has only been shot with irons so a direct comparison is a bit hard for me.

    As for the A2 or A4 it really depends what you want. If you never see yourself putting a scope, even a low power option, for hunting or paper punching then go A2. All of my rifles have been A4's. The RRA was scoped the bulk of its time with me, the del-ton had a cheap red dot, and the stag so far has had an a2 handle sight on it for all the rounds through it. Still I like the ability to toss any scope on without totally killing cheek weld on the A4. I like to use my AR to hunt ground hogs, raccoon, and other game slightly larger than rabbit but smaller than deer. I feel much more confident with even a fixed 4x in the field so I like to keep my options open which the A4 with an A2 detachable sight does for me.
     
  24. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    I've heard that I shouldn't get a 2 stage trigger, are they bad or something?

    What's the average trigger pull (RRA excluded) for an average AR out of the box? I have a Remmy 700 with a X-Mark trigger and LOVE it, just in case y'all wanted to know.

    Thanks :)
     
  25. paradox998

    paradox998 Member

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    I suggest a Bushmaster 20", flat-top. I have one with a bipod and and HBAR barrel that has excellent accuracy, good quality and a reasonable price. Definitely go with an A4 flat top upper on anything you buy. You never know what you will want to add to the rifle later and many feel the fixed A2 style is obsolete.
     
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