What's the hangup about speed?
- Thread starter jeepmor
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ColtPythonElite
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Deleted.....read question wrong
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I check bullet speeds as another piece of the pressure puzzle.
I sometimes load for a target speed but it is never near the top published speed.
I guess folks load for top speed for the same reason they keep the long skinny pedal on the floor.
I sometimes load for a target speed but it is never near the top published speed.
I guess folks load for top speed for the same reason they keep the long skinny pedal on the floor.
many of the powders used for bottle-neck rifle cartridges are most efficient (generally most accurate) at the top end of the cartridge's pressure (therefore velocity) limit.
"working up a load", for me, entails: first choosing a bullet, then choosing a "best fit" powder type, then shooting 5 shot groups in ever increasing powder amounts until i find the most accurate group.
if that group's "speed" is adequate for my particular needs, i now have my "load".
i don't just go for speed. fwiw
murf
"working up a load", for me, entails: first choosing a bullet, then choosing a "best fit" powder type, then shooting 5 shot groups in ever increasing powder amounts until i find the most accurate group.
if that group's "speed" is adequate for my particular needs, i now have my "load".
i don't just go for speed. fwiw
murf
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Same question could be ask about why anyone would buy a .300 RUM Magleum when a .308 or 30-06 would kill a deer just as dead at any range you should be shooting at them??
Dead is dead.
But in America we are brought up to think bigger is better.
Faster is better.
And costs twice as much to shoot in powder & barrel life is better.
Beats me why??
Cause I don't reload anything that way, and never have.
rc
Dead is dead.
But in America we are brought up to think bigger is better.
Faster is better.
And costs twice as much to shoot in powder & barrel life is better.
Beats me why??
Cause I don't reload anything that way, and never have.
rc
1SOW
Member
I load some pretty hot 9mm loads for SD.
98% of my pistol shooting is with 130 PF light loads that are accurate and soft shooting.
"The need for speed" in most pistols is just for reloader enjoyment/satisfaction, not to find the perfect load. There is nothing wrong with this. Enjoying shooting is a good thing.
It just may not be your or my way to enjoy shooting.
98% of my pistol shooting is with 130 PF light loads that are accurate and soft shooting.
"The need for speed" in most pistols is just for reloader enjoyment/satisfaction, not to find the perfect load. There is nothing wrong with this. Enjoying shooting is a good thing.
It just may not be your or my way to enjoy shooting.
Rory McCanuck
Member
Not much point to having a 300 RUM and running it like a 30-30.
A 30-30 is not a 1/4 mile deer rifle, and quite a bit of hunting up
here is done at long range.
Of course, reduced loads for playing around are a whole bunch of fun,
but hunting loads should be up to potential.
A 30-30 is not a 1/4 mile deer rifle, and quite a bit of hunting up
here is done at long range.
Of course, reduced loads for playing around are a whole bunch of fun,
but hunting loads should be up to potential.
Of course, accuracy is critical for my hobby...prairie dog shooting. Some of my most accurate .223 rounds are 55 gr (around 3200 FPS) slower than my 40 gr (3800 FPS), I think I am remembering right. Anyway, I like shooting p-dogs with the speedier loads because of the explosive killing power of the faster bullet. Yeah, the dog is just as dead with the heavier, slower bullet, but they don't jump as high
You should see them with my .204 at 4200 FPS...WOW!
You should see them with my .204 at 4200 FPS...WOW!Maximumbob54
Member
My only reason to load closer to the top instead of the bottom is an effort to make the powder burn more cleanly than leave junk behind to bog up the works. Once I get clean burning powder then as long as it's accurate I'm done.
rayatphonix
Member
I fell victim to this thinking myself. If I wasn't getting the groupings I was after, I'd add powder (I always started toward the middle) in order to increase the speed. I asked for help on improving my reloading on this site and was nicely reminded there are other factors in play. I started reducing my powder and groups started taking shape. I now always start at the bottom end of the charges and quit when I get the groups I'm after. I've since brought a chronograph and find that my best groups are seldom near the top end velocity for the bullet and cartridge combination.
sellersm
Member
That would be a hoot to watch!!
I guess some think that because they have a gun that will perform at top speed, then they should load to make that happen!
I know I enjoy some fast loads out of my .357sig, and others enjoy pushing their 10mm handgun really fast.
I guess the answer is, "because we can"?
Clark
Member
For years I just had a chronograph to post something interesting on the internet.
But now that I am long range hunting, I use the velocity for making ballistics charts, so I know how much windage and elevation to use.
But now that I am long range hunting, I use the velocity for making ballistics charts, so I know how much windage and elevation to use.
Certaindeaf
member
A given thing going faster is more powerful. last I checked anyway
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Velocity is certainly an important consideration. The point that the object of the exercise is to squeeze that last 50 fps out of a cartridge is where it gets a little ridiculous...and often dangerous.
Velocity serves mainly to flatten trajectory, and there will be precious little difference on target between two 150-grain .30 caliber bullets with one clocking an additional 50-100 fps faster than the other. It's been my own experience that if more killing power is required, what is needed is more bullet rather than more speed.
It's also been my experience that two outwardly identical rifles will often turn in wildly different velocities with a given cartridge or load.
Velocity serves mainly to flatten trajectory, and there will be precious little difference on target between two 150-grain .30 caliber bullets with one clocking an additional 50-100 fps faster than the other. It's been my own experience that if more killing power is required, what is needed is more bullet rather than more speed.
It's also been my experience that two outwardly identical rifles will often turn in wildly different velocities with a given cartridge or load.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I agree that speed is many times overemphasized. I have no idea how fast my loads are. I have never used a chrono, though I would like to just out of curiosity. I load within published limits and guess what, my handloads are very accurate and kill deer just as fast as factory stuff. That's what I'm really concerned about.
Like 1911 Tuner said, it is important when trying to flatten trajectory. For the majority of us, it's irrelevant because we don't shoot at very long ranges. The farthest I've ever shot a deer was about 175 yds and that was the exception. I've killed way more at less than 100 than farther than 100. If you hunt Wyoming or somewhere similar maybe you need that extra 200 fps to increase you max point blank range.
Like 1911 Tuner said, it is important when trying to flatten trajectory. For the majority of us, it's irrelevant because we don't shoot at very long ranges. The farthest I've ever shot a deer was about 175 yds and that was the exception. I've killed way more at less than 100 than farther than 100. If you hunt Wyoming or somewhere similar maybe you need that extra 200 fps to increase you max point blank range.
i was that way at first. find out how fast i could make them. after a few hundred rounds, and nothing to really show for it accuracy wise, i started concentrating on hitting the center of the target. first from 100 yards, then 200, and then 300. the chances of getting a shot longer than 300 yards in Michigan is about the same as winning the lottery. almost non existent.
41 Mag
Member
I have for the most part always loaded in the mid to upper range of the published data. Like most I start off low and work my way up looking over cases and primers, and measuring them when I feel it is necessary.
Usually I find a load and stick with it unless something might dictate me picking something else out for that particular rifle. I usually pick mid to heavier weight for caliber bullets as well. Once I decide on what bullet weight I sort through all of the data I can find using that weight mostly to see what the more common powders listed in the data are. I then narrow it down to a couple I usually have on hand and start working up. For the most part I shoot for the mid 2800fps range with most loads as I have found that most basic cup and core bullet perform fine in this range.
There are however some that I might go with a higher velocity when looking to reach out across a pasture knowing I need the extra punch or the quicker arrival time to help with wind and drop.
Then there are simply a couple of my rifles where I want what I can get from them, as that was the sole reason they were purchased. These are loaded to the top end within safe limits and the loads have been carefully worked up and tested in a broad range of temperatures to be sure nothing gets spiky.
My 7mm STW, and my 25-06 AI are two that I run on the upper end with the proper bullet weights. With the 7mm I am getting just over 3250 with a Nosler 150gr Solid base which is equivelent to the Federal factory loads. I am getting 3350 with a 120gr Rem CL from my 25-06 AI with no issues either. I do admit however that the 28" barrel on it helps out a lot.
I have run smaller calibers to top end for specific loads but overall like above mostly everything I shoot resides nicely between 2800 and 3000fps. I do strive for accuracy over speed, but when you can get them both it sure is nice.
Usually I find a load and stick with it unless something might dictate me picking something else out for that particular rifle. I usually pick mid to heavier weight for caliber bullets as well. Once I decide on what bullet weight I sort through all of the data I can find using that weight mostly to see what the more common powders listed in the data are. I then narrow it down to a couple I usually have on hand and start working up. For the most part I shoot for the mid 2800fps range with most loads as I have found that most basic cup and core bullet perform fine in this range.
There are however some that I might go with a higher velocity when looking to reach out across a pasture knowing I need the extra punch or the quicker arrival time to help with wind and drop.
Then there are simply a couple of my rifles where I want what I can get from them, as that was the sole reason they were purchased. These are loaded to the top end within safe limits and the loads have been carefully worked up and tested in a broad range of temperatures to be sure nothing gets spiky.
My 7mm STW, and my 25-06 AI are two that I run on the upper end with the proper bullet weights. With the 7mm I am getting just over 3250 with a Nosler 150gr Solid base which is equivelent to the Federal factory loads. I am getting 3350 with a 120gr Rem CL from my 25-06 AI with no issues either. I do admit however that the 28" barrel on it helps out a lot.
I have run smaller calibers to top end for specific loads but overall like above mostly everything I shoot resides nicely between 2800 and 3000fps. I do strive for accuracy over speed, but when you can get them both it sure is nice.
DC Plumber
Member
I hear ya Jeep! It's a little too much sometimes, but it's what some guys are all about. Got a fast car, how fast can it go?
We have a guy at our club that handloads. He never starts at starting loads, always goes to max load and says he'll learn to shoot around the inaccuracy of a bad load, as long it shoots flames. He was actually loading his 500 over max listed loads. I hate standing next to him at the line, one day one of his guns is going to come apart.
Well, one day he was crying in his beer after shooting and chrono'ing some loads. Come to find out, he max loads didnt' come close to the velocities in the manuals.
He's a nice guy, but he's one of those guys that just can't lose and wants to be the baddest, fastest, whatever. Then he starts criticizing anyone who shoots slower lead loads in their N Frames. He asks, why would you buy a 44mag if you're going to shoot 44specials out of it. I keep my distance from him now. Not a fun person to be around.
Let it roll off of your back, let everyone be whoever they want to be. If you don't like it, keep your distance like I do.
Just my opinion.
We have a guy at our club that handloads. He never starts at starting loads, always goes to max load and says he'll learn to shoot around the inaccuracy of a bad load, as long it shoots flames. He was actually loading his 500 over max listed loads. I hate standing next to him at the line, one day one of his guns is going to come apart.
Well, one day he was crying in his beer after shooting and chrono'ing some loads. Come to find out, he max loads didnt' come close to the velocities in the manuals.
He's a nice guy, but he's one of those guys that just can't lose and wants to be the baddest, fastest, whatever. Then he starts criticizing anyone who shoots slower lead loads in their N Frames. He asks, why would you buy a 44mag if you're going to shoot 44specials out of it. I keep my distance from him now. Not a fun person to be around.
Let it roll off of your back, let everyone be whoever they want to be. If you don't like it, keep your distance like I do.
Just my opinion.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
It's about performance. Just because the bullet is going fast doesn't mean it isn't accurate. More then 30 years of loading has convinced me that a cartridge gets its best accuracy near the max load.
Also I do a lot of long range shooting. Makes sense to have less drop.
Also I do a lot of long range shooting. Makes sense to have less drop.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Speed? Do you mean the fastest velocity or how fast we make the rounds as to the time involved to load a round? Me confused.
When I load I load for the best accuracy with a given bullet etc. I do chronograph my loads for comparison purposes and never push the high end unless it delivers the best accuracy from a given gun.
The best stuff I load is done on my old trusty RCBS Rock Chucker where I take my time loading one round at a time.
Ron
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