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What's wrong w/Cross-Draw?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by MinnMooney, Oct 20, 2007.

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  1. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    I keep hearing that police departments and training "camps" either highly discourage or ban cross-draw holsters. Some training facilities won't even let you take the class if you insist on wearing your weapon x-draw!

    For what reason?
    Speed? : Getting that 1st shot on target is exponentially more important & speed is a situational/individual factor. (See the next few paragraphs.)
    Longer vertical target while raising the gun from stong side vs less horizontal target while swinging the gun from a x-draw? : This is only the case if your target shooting or shooting at someone in the ol' West style... a duel. Most real life, documented, "caught-on-video" scenarios are while one or both shooters are running for cover & shooting 1-handed.
    Concealment? : CrossDraw is as concealable or more so depending on your build.
    Accessability? : CrossDraw has a huge advantage while in your car, in a booth at a restaurant, on a couch watching TV or any other place where your elbow has a backward movement obstacle.
    A huge group of us are baby-boomers and sometimes our shoulder mobility isn't as fantastic as it once was. "Strong-side" draw is difficult at best due to trying to swivel and twist our shoulder joint in ways that it protests - a lot, sometimes!
    Easier for the BG to snatch it from the x-draw position? : I can hold onto my x-draw position weapon much more securely and it's definately not as suseptable (sp?) to anyone approaching from the rear because - in most cases - it's canted more forward that most stong-side holsters. Not only that but while holding onto my weapon with my left hand/arm I'm free to hit or defend from the attack of the BG. I can hit MUCH better with my strong side/right arm.


    O.K. - I've had my say now let's hear some rebuttal..... but before you do, maybe you'd want to read this artical that I found that probably says better how I feel than I am probably doing.

    http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature0101.html
     
  2. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    The big point I've heard, is that you got your gun pointed at a lot more that you don't want to shoot while drawing than the strong side carry.
     
  3. JaxJim

    JaxJim Member

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    A cross draw causes the shooter to "sweep" the person to their left or right in a much higher percentage of the time. It also is a less efficient method of draw, requiring more movement and a longer time to bring the firearm to the sight position.

    However, I carry cross-draw when hunting. The rifle butt will bang a sidearm carried on the strong side (at least the way I carry a rifle).
     
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Actually there isn't anything wrong with crossdraw if you like it, and so long as you keep your finger off of the trigger until the muzzle is pointed down range, it is as safe as any other draw. Ed McGivern proved decades ago that crossdraw can be speedy, and shots thereafter accurately placed.

    However a strong-side draw works better with "modern" techniques where the weak-side hand is part of the weapon's draw and presentation.

    It's a matter of individual choice. What others think doesn't matter unless you're part of an organization with specific rules.
     
  5. AndyC

    AndyC Member

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    It's a range safety-issue; same reason they discourage the use of shoulder holsters and small-of-back rigs. Simple as that.
     
  6. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Yup, that's true sometimes... But its never influenced my choices in gun-carrying methods. I could always find another place to practice.

    Crossdraw was very popular prior to, and shortly after, World War Two. I don't remember a whole lot of accidental or unintentional shootings being caused by crossdraw rigs. More often it was some dingbat with a strong-side holster that didn't cover the trigger guard. :what:
     
  7. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    If you have very sloppy technique, it is possible to "sweep" the person to your off-hand side, but that's about it. Pretty sure the correct technique is to pull the gun out of the holster, then swing it directly forward (or down and forward, if using a horizontal shoulder holster), while rotating it so that it's not upside-down. That way the gun gets pointed at nothing but the ground and the target, same as a strong side draw.
     
  8. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    Some interesting points that you-all are making.
    I definately see the reasoning AT THE RANGE to not allow cross-draw during rapid practice sessions due to the fact that the pistol can be pointed down & slightly behind the shooter during the draw.

    from : Old Fuff
    That pretty well sums up the safety-at-the-range issue. Thanks, Old Fuff

    P.S. What does Old Fuff refer to/mean??
     
  9. jjminch

    jjminch Member

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    They have their purpose, as do "jack-ass rigs" (shoulder harness). They are harder to deploy especially when the BG is within arms length. If you take any classes on defensive tactics and stuff they strongly discourage cross draw, jack-ass rigs, or mexican carry. Strong side holsters are faster and safer for most.
     
  10. warriorsociologist

    warriorsociologist Member

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    My quick .02.

    As I see it, an "interview stance," as I was taught, puts your week side towards the individual you are facing and your strong side (with sidearm) to the rear. Anything you are holding (ticketbook, flashlight, etc.) is in your weekhand. Should you need to draw your weapon, you have your weekhand to ward off / distance yourself from possible attack and you have your bladed position to your advantage. (While I agree with you that I could hit/ward off someone better with my strong hand...I am MORE concerend with keeping "free" the hand that I can better employ my sidearm while engaged as such (FWIW, I've had plenty of "mat time/retention drills", though long ago now, from which to form my opinion of what I like better). YMMV, of course, but to me a cross draw rig on a RH officer puts either his/her sidearm or his/her strong hand (should you blade the firearm away by reversing your stance) closer to the other individual...and neither is something I'd want. For hunting, I can see good utility for these rigs as they allow you strong side rifle carry without hitting your stock on the holster. That said, I usually weak-side sling my rifle (muzzle down) and carry my hunting rig strongside...moslty, because that's what I'm used to doing/way I was trained.
     
  11. sm

    sm member

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    Old Fuff's posts #4 and#6 I agree with.

    Driving is another consideration for Cross-draw , especially if one spends a lot of time driving.

    Some will remove firearm from right/strong side, and use a spare holster while in the vehicle.
    The heavy clip-on worked in the old days, these new leather straps that fit over belt work fine.
     
  12. warriorsociologist

    warriorsociologist Member

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    Come to think of it more now, I do have one cross-draw type rig...though it is a "tanker-style" repro I use on the rare occasion I carry my G20 over one of my wheelguns. Normally, this is only for hunting or backpacking when I'm carrying a large pack w/ waist belt (in my case, my McHale Pack has a wide and thick support belt ... and drop-leg style holsters get "old" to me after many hours of hiking).
     

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  13. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    I worked with a city detective in my old department, who preferred to use
    the cross draw method with his old Colt Government Model 1911; carried in
    condition 1~! :scrutiny:;)
     
  14. Mad Magyar

    Mad Magyar Member

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    In the summer, using a small caliber in the strong-side pocket for sure. Other times, it's a shoulder rig, or on the cross-draw....Why? For me, it has to do with my body dynamics, aka."Ying-Yang"... I constantly practice the presentation phase and I'm fast.....:)
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    "Old Fuff," sometimes shortened to simply, "Fuff," was a nickname two teens stuck on me. Somehow I was never able to get away from it... :D

    Doesn't seem to tactical does it?
     
  16. FieroCDSP

    FieroCDSP Member

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    Hey...just use it proudly and no one will have the guts to say anything.

    "What's your name?"
    "Fuff"
    "Fuff??!!!?!"
    "Just Fuff. :eyes narrow to hard slits: :scrutiny: "
     
  17. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    "Old Fuff" - Doesn't seem to tactical does it?

    Well, as Teddy Roosevelt says, "Walk softly but carry a big stick."

    If you were Mr. Macho/Tactical I suppose you could have a handle like

    "1911AR-15.50Cal12Ga00BuckU.S.M.C.BuckKnife"


    Back on subject : I've tried several very well-made holsters on my strong side but it's the shoulder that screws up any resemblence to a "fast draw". My weak side draw is not only much smoother but way more consistent.
    Seems that I'll just have to be very careful at the range and practice when no one is behind or to the left (which is 90% of the time at my range and 99.44% of the time on my 80.
    Thanks everyone for your valuable input.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2007
  18. GRB

    GRB member

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    Sure looks as if Mad Magyar is about to cover his own left arm when he draws from the cross draw holster, see the pic about 3 or 4 posts up from this one. Reason enough for me not to carry in that manner.

    All the best,
    Glenn B
     
  19. 196pc

    196pc Member

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    Crossdraw

    I do a lot of surveillances (LEO in car). I find the crossdraw very comfortable and easy to get to if needed. I also carry crossdraw when working "undercover" (not plainclothes). I find the gun easier to conceal and carry props (like a newspaper) in my weak hand for additonal concealment. One does need to practice more when carrying in different positions.
     
  20. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    Glenn Bartley : "Sure looks as if Mad Magyar is about to cover his own left arm."

    I think that Mad Magyar is practicing getting ready to push off from the BG or hold him from getting in the way of his draw. It looks pretty smooth and direct to me.

    I also like the fact that it's easier to get behind your jacket on the cross draw version. On strong side you have to make a concerted effort to flip the right jacket half out of the way and make sure that it stays out while you're drawing.

    .
     
  21. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    "Cowboy Action Shooters" are using the cross draw along with strong side rigs. With practice any place you want to put your carry gun is just fine...Just remember the rule that no finger on the trigger until you aquire the target...
     
  22. DawgFvr

    DawgFvr Member

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    I considered cross draw...until I read Bill Jordan's No Second Place Winner.

    Page 21: "The cross draw holster is an invitation to disaster. Its position is even more convenient to an opponent than to the wearer."

    That was all I need to read...nope...not for me.
     
  23. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    All of those reasons are legit. One thing not mentioned is that with a crossdraw holster your firearm is presented to an opponent. Basically butt forward ready to grab and shoot, the gun is already pointing at you. A strong side weapon is also easier to retain in the holster if it is being grabbed at. It is forbidden to carry cross draw in my department, this is the main reason stated. Holsters are also required to have retention (snap, strap). A speed scabbard is not allowed. Ankle and shoulder holster wear is frowned upon as well, not forbidden, but frowned upon. The question is alway asked before a qualification string if anyone has any unconventional holster, it's brings fear to the hearts of the R/O's if someone grabs for their ankle during live fire. Bill

    Sorry DawgFVR beat me to it, lol!
     
  24. Mad Magyar

    Mad Magyar Member

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    Exactly....The off-hand is coming in the halt/fend position. Balance is extremely important...Coming from the strong-side with the arm being cocked for retrieval doesn't do it for me....Since my outwear is never buttoned, the hand slide across your abdomen for the grasp is always on. Strong-side requires that quick jacket flip-back which I don't particularly care for...
    BTW, Bill Jordan was a giant in my eyes, of course he was:), but I think he would say "do what best fits your situation, but do it well".
    Glenn, looking at it another way in the sweep...The strong-side draw from the "c-n'-l" contributed to more ND's in the military, (foot-toes-thighs) that they cared to admit. M. Ayoob wrote a fascinating acct about military mishaps with the 1911. The point being, regardless of position, yes; mishaps will occur..
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2007
  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Nothing wrong with it, if you are accomplished at it. :)
     
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