What's Wrong With Polymer Framed And Striker Fired Guns

[Valkman]

I love my 1911's - and I love and shoot just well with my XD45's. Love both kinds. If I were going into a muddy wet nasty enviroment it'd be the XD I take with me.

 

[gamestalker]

I have both, but I prefer a good solid steel frame and a hammer. My daily carry is a SS wheel gun, so. But what I absolutely don't like, is a wheel gun made of anything but good old fashioned heavy steel.

GS

 

[tarosean]

I've been convinced through slow, inexorable, piling up of evidence at every match I attend, that they are the "bestest for the mostest" and the old steel and hammer guns really just don't keep up, no matter how much soul they have or how beautiful they are.

Yet the top dogs in the sport run just that.

Eric Grauffel
Max Michael Jr.
Travis Tomasie
Todd Jarrett
Nils Jonasson
Mike Voigt

etc. etc. etc.

course I'd be remiss in not mentioning that Dave Sevigny and Robert Vogel can absolutely dominate with them...

 

[bannockburn]

Nothing wrong with polymer frames and striker fire systems. As long as they go "Bang" every time you pull the trigger I'm fine with that.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'm fine with both/all types. My preference is for hammers over strikers but really that's just 'cause that's what I'm used to. For a CCW gun I'm all for poly...anything that reduces weight, plus it won't rust.

As much as I prefer a gun with a hammer and a thumb safety I do carry a Beretta Nano an awful lot.

 

[hardluk1]

It does not matter to me so long as a firearm serves your needs if its metal or poly, stricker or SA or DA , revolver or pistol. . To many whinny types out there today that don't try to own and enjoy other makes and types.

 

[wanderinwalker]

I had to vote that they are "OK". But in interest of full disclosure, I'm pistol bipolar. What I mean by that is I've NEVER owned a center fire semi-auto that wasn't polymer framed, striker fired and held at least a small handful of rounds. But I've also owned a bunch of different steel framed 6-shot revolvers. And currently I can open the cabinet and have an even selection between the two when I want to go shooting or carry something.

There's a good chance my next pistol purchase will be a steel-framed Commander-sized 1911, a nice, solid chunk of machined metal tossing big bullets. But I don't think it has "soul" or is in any way "superior" to the Glock I've had the past 12 years either. Just different, which makes it interesting. I can make 50-yd hits on an IDPA target with either kind of pistol (and a DA revolver) so shootability and usability are a wash in my mind.

And before somebody comes along and tells me the 1911 has the best trigger and nothing else will suffice (I agree with point 1, but will debate point 2), so long as a trigger isn't absolutely horrendous, it can be worked. It has to be a really poor trigger (CZ-52, I'm looking in your direction) to be an acceptable excuse in my mind.

 

[Glock Doctor]

I know a lot of people regularly decry polymer framed and or striker fired guns. Why?

1. At the present time ALL polymer frame pistols have either a completely unknown, or completely unstated, 'half-life'. Nobody seems to know whether or not steel lasts longer than polymer, or polymer lasts longer than steel?

2. Polymer frames vibrate, violently, every time they're fired. Again, nobody knows, or nobody is saying, how much or for how long a polymer frame can vibrate BEFORE it begins to soften up and adversely effect slide operation and recoil?

I have noticed that law enforcement agencies tend to keep their polymer frame pistols for periods of time less than 10 years. These, 'million round torture tests' are, also, limited to strictly 9 x 19 millimeter chamberings. No one really knows how well, or not, other calibers might do?

3. I'm starting to suspect that time periods of less than 10 years, and usage of less than 35 to 45 thousand rounds might be the most reliable general operational norms for polymer frames.

4. No information is available to the general public on the potentially adverse effects of prolonged exposure to sunlight on anybody's polymer frame pistols. All that is generally known is that sunlight will eventually destroy polymer. (Black polymer deteriorates more slowly than other colors.)

5. Manufacturing cost factors make the excessive, and too often inappropriate use of MIM parts attractive to the makers of polymer frames. In the present marketplace everybody's polymer frame pistols strongly suggest the use of MIM parts - Many with only marginal operating characteristics and reliability. (Yes, I know Charlie Petty likes MIM parts. I like them too - Just not so much excessive, inappropriate, and questionable use.)

6. Polymer frame pistols represent a relatively new manufacturing technology. Too often it's the general public who ends up spending their money, and becoming marketplace, 'laboratory animals' for the plastic gun manufacturers to experiment with.

SERIOUS problems with polymer frame pistols have already happened to me 3 times during the past 11 years; and I continue to marvel at the amazing lack of awareness or concern I witness on just about any internet gun forum. The general attitude seems to be, 'Go ahead and screw me; I love it!'

Decades ago I learned that skillful advertising is able to compensate for a multitude of product faults; and, when it comes to polymer frame pistols this marketplace phenomenon has never been more true. Other than these considerations polymer frame/striker-fired pistols are fine with me. (You just have to find the right one!)

 

[bikemutt]

Are you two making assumptions or trying to be funny.

I have had the MP9c with the 12 rnd mags for 4 yrs and is my primary. Ive also had a BHP since 94.

As compared to a metal framed gun.... polymer guns are more top heavy.

Well, an element of humor was included but, from what I've observed many folks decide if a gun is balanced by handling it at a gun counter. Polymer guns under those circumstances do tend to feel top-heavy (really they are bottom-light), the slide and barrel are still obviously made of steel and weigh more or less the same as a comparable steel gun.

Once a polymer gun is loaded (usually with a greater number of rounds of ammo than a steel gun), it then becomes more balanced, at least until one starts to shoot it, then it progressively moves back to being bottom-light.

In any event, when I judge a high capacity semi-auto's balance, I try to imagine what it's going to feel like when loaded since that's when the gun is useful, otherwise it's just an expensive rock.

 

[verdun59]

Interesting discussion, but I have to say I'm a bit puzzled about the loooong trigger pull on the striker fired guns. The reason that I say that is because my XD9 with the PRP trigger is about a hair (your choice) away from the highly acclaimed and adored 1911, with zero over travel as a bonus.

 

[Hangingrock]

Esthetics but functionality has a beauty all of its own. Functionally should be the most important attribute of a design that's the virtue of the striker fired pistol a long with the polymer frame material selection. Not to be over looked is cost effectiveness from the manufacture and consumers view point.

 

[kimbershot]

bought my first plastic handgun (xds 45). never thought i'd do it--but a move south prompted the change. the xds--light, more concealable and with the heat down here--more comfortable.

 

[WaywardSon]

While I am pretty much a revolver guy, I do own a few semi-autos. Only one of those is polymer framed or striker fired, a Glock 20. There is not much I "like" about the Glock. It is ugly, grip is huge, trigger is nothing to brag about & the "safe action" is not in my opinion, safe. So, why do I own it? Simple...it shines in the role it was developed for. In a self defense situation there is nothing better. Dead reliable, plenty accurate, and a lot of firepower in that package. If I feel the need to have something on my hip, the Glock is likely to get the call. I don't have to like it to appreciate it's virtues & be willing to use them.

 

[huntsman]

If you dislike polymer so much why wouldn't you buy an NAA Guardian instead of the LCP?


There are still quite a few all metal handguns available for $500 or less. Your belief that plastic frames are a rip off is completely unfounded though. If your fellow gun owners are as gullible as you think they are, then they're in the vast majority. Do you really think the American gun buying market is that foolish?

I haven't found the NAA locally yet or I would buy it.

Gullible in the sense that today's gun buyer seems all to willing to pay what the gun manufacturer wants, I don't believe we have the pricing pressure on the gun market (from the buyer) as we used to.

The gun industry was pretty stagnate for over a 100 years and now it seems we're moving into a plastic dominated market, with these profound changes it's natural that luddites like myself will pull back, but truth is IF I never buy another gun I'd still die a satisfied gun guy so I leave this issue to those who will actively participate in the future gun market.

FWIW I believe the growth in the plastic gun demand is a direct result in the growth in the CC movement, is this a lasting move or a fad ? time will tell.

Ah, so there is a place for polymer guns.

yeah I guess, I use a BIC but with the understanding that I'll throw it away when it's used up, I view the LCP the same way.

 

[Quentin]

I carried a Colt Series '70 Government Model for 36 years. Still love it and my other steel and walnut guns. But have to say I'm pleased with my Glock 23 and 27 now. There's a place for both types in any good arsenal. It doesn't hurt to open your mind and try out what's in common use today. I'm glad I did.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I have learned to appreciate and even relish the polymer and striker fired pistols. Could *not* get my brain and "feel" wrapped around the concept until I purchased a Glock 26 and really got down and dirty with it with about 1000 rounds. Now I have the appreciation and will soon own 3 polymer framed guns to play with.

I doubt they will ever replace my intense love of Browning designed pistols from 100 years ago - nothing feels and shoots like my 1903 Model M's and 1911 .45 ACP's. The all steel pistols have a feeling and precision polymer will never achieve.

Let's face it...the polymer guns have become popular because they are effective tools but the precision, hand fitting of the all metal guns is simply too expensive and too labor intensive to be affordable today and in the future. There used to be work places full of skilled metalworkers to fit and finish (by hand in many cases) all steel pistols and there simply is not that level of craftsmen in general practice today.

Polymer will be the rule now because all steel is too expensive in terms of manufacture and final fit and finish. Polymer guns are cheap and fast and plenty good enough to appeal.

I wonder how many Glocks will be at the range or being carried and collected in 95 years like my Colt Model M's that still draw a crowd at the range? I wonder if they do survive that long if anyone will get all giddy about being allowed to handle and shoot one at the range like they do with the old Colt pocket pistols I have?

I'm cool with polymer but they will always be "economy cars" to me...cheap and effective and when the round count gets too high we'll pitch 'em in the trash and buy another plastic pistol. I love 'em like Harbor Freight tools...cheap and effective. But they ain't goosebump-proud-to-own-and-show pistols for me.

Well....maybe my new Beretta Px4 SC.

VooDoo

 

[ugaarguy]

Gullible in the sense that today's gun buyer seems all to willing to pay what the gun manufacturer wants, I don't believe we have the pricing pressure on the gun market (from the buyer) as we used to.

The facts contradict your opinion. MSRP on the Glock 17 was $595 in 1993, which is $964 now when adjusted for inflation. Yet, MSRP on the Glock 17 has only risen to $620. Market pressure has kept the S&W SD VE series (the current evolution of the Sigma) at $320 street price. Despite overall US market inflation inflation and the recent firearms demand spike, that's essentially the same as the Sigma's 1998 street price of $300. Having working in firearms retail I can also tell you that there's very little profit in the guns themselves. If you want to make money in the gun industry sell ammo and accessories. Having also worked in big box retail I can tell you that even ammo and gun accessory margins are a joke compared to shoes and clothes. The US consumer market has massive leverage on gun prices.

I believe the growth in the plastic gun demand is a direct result in the growth in the CC movement, is this a lasting move or a fad ? time will tell.

If the expansion of concealed carry is a fad it's a nearly 20 year old one.

I use a BIC but with the understanding that I'll throw it away when it's used up, I view the LCP the same way.

That really shows an ignorance of plastics on your part. There are Glock pistols from the early 80s that are still completely serviceable. There are countless M16 and AR-15 butt stocks and hand guards from the 70s and earlier that are still in service. Comparing a plastic gun frame from a major manufacturer to a disposable ink pen is the same as comparing a metal gun frame to a piece of aluminum foil. They're both metal, but that's where the similarities end.

 

[kokapelli]

I'm cool with polymer but they will always be "economy cars" to me...cheap and effective and when the round count gets too high we'll pitch 'em in the trash and buy another plastic pistol.

Polymers are being used extensively in the most expensive cars because it is lighter and just performs better in certain areas of a car than metal.

 

[Zeeemu]

I appreciate the beauty of finely crafted steel and quality hardwood stocks/grips but still enjoy my Nylon 66 and XP100.

 

[huntsman]

That really shows an ignorance of plastics on your part.

No it shows my real feeling about this gun, I'll use it till I'm done with it then pitch it, no sense passing it down because I doubt it'll have any real value. That's what all plastic guns are BIC's to me you may not like it but that don't change my reality.

If the expansion of concealed carry is a fad it's a nearly 20 year old one.

ok 20 years and what about 30 years of plastic? lets check back in another twenty years.

 

[Sam1911]

There's a complete false economy in the "will it last a century?" argument. How many rounds could you have put through a Glock 17 if you bought it in 1982? Let's say you only put 5,000 rounds downrange a year and they're all through that one gun.

That's 155,000 rounds. There are Glocks that have gone more than that without anything at all wrong with the frame or slide or most other parts. How's a 1911 or BHP or (LOL!) S&W Model 19 look after 155,000 rounds? Any better than that Glock? Require more or less service to keep running? Which one is closest to the end of the frame's service life?

Now if we're talking about a life of retirement as an artifact, sitting on a shelf somewhere for those three decades? Well...if the Glock's still running (and they are) I guess it passes that test. What about after a century? Well, at that point who knows? Wood and rubber and other gun materials (besides steel) certainly do dry and crack and warp over time, so that is a problem for a great many guns.

Polymers are damaged by UV rays, though gun polymers are stabilized against that kind of damage, so you probably shouldn't leave one laying outside exposed to the elements for years. Of course, what would your 1911 look like if you treated it like that?

All this to say, there's really no reason to decry polymer/striker guns as heirlooms just because steel guns have traditionally filled that role. Sure, when you're done with it you can toss it out. Your kids will call you an idiot, but I won't! Promise!

 

[Fiv3r]

Like all guns

I have several steel hammer fired guns in the cabinet, but my HD and daily carry pieces are either striker fired polymer or a stainless wheel gun. I just don't see a downside to them short of aesthetics. They work

I look after my guns, clean them, and keep them ALL put away and safely stored. I don't doubt my 1911s AND my Glocks will be shooting just fine when my grandkids inherit them in, hopefully, a half century.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Polymers are being used extensively in the most expensive cars because it is lighter and just performs better in certain areas of a car than metal.

Agreed. That's why I added the "for me..." context. I'm a lover of both types and voted that way. I prefer all steel but that's just like preferring red headed women.

for me, red headed women are the hottest.

VooDoo

 

[kokapelli]

Agreed. That's why I added the "for me..." context. I'm a lover of both types and voted that way. I prefer all steel but that's just like preferring red headed women.

for me, red headed women are the hottest.

VooDoo

Personally I prefer black hair.

 

[TestPilot]

Do not really care.

I have handled good feeling metal frame pistols and crappy feeling mefal frame pistols.

I have also handled both good and crappy feeling plastic framed pistols.

Most metal frame pistols come with plastic or rubber wrap around type grips, so I end up touching polymer anyway. The only reason why I'd specifically want metal frame pistol is when I want the gun to be heavy for recoil control.