What's your plan B?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Scrapiron45, Jun 25, 2022.

  1. Scrapiron45

    Scrapiron45 Member

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    My usual defense plan is strong on situational awareness with a pistol as a last resort. It seems many of the respondits on this forum are able to avoid or just refuse to attend places not legal to carry.
    Having grandchildren of school age I attend related functions on a regular basis where of course carrying a weapon is a felony.
    I shoot on a regular basis and attend defensive pistol classes throughout the year so I feel fairly unarmed carrying nothing but a can of pepper spray and a swat t tourniquet in my pocket.
    Do any of you law enforcement guys have any recommendations on non lethal defense sprays such as strengths, applicator type, how to train, etc? Other options such as tasers? Electrician by trade, I know for a fact that an unexpected pop and a flash from a panel box will clear a room.
    Guess I'm looking for some first hand experience on effectiveness besides just reading the ads.
    Many thanks.
     
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  2. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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  3. shafter

    shafter Member

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    You have several options. The first is training to see improvised weapons in every day objects. It's uncommon for me to be more than a few steps from a weapon because I know how to use whats around me.

    The second is to learn some sort of unarmed self defense. Jujitsu is excellent for this and if you learn some striking as well you'll be much better off than with nothing else.

    Lastly, just get in the best physical shape that you can for your age and circumstances. Combine some physical strength with enough cardio to not gas out after 30 seconds will give you a tremendous advantage. If you can stay calm and weather the storm for more than that there is a good chance a drunk is gonna lose steam and you can escape.
     
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  4. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    There is no "plan B" for me. There are tools in a toolbox, and I choose the best tool that is available at any given time. The tools I normally have access to in no specific order are guns, edged weapons, weapons of opportunity, and hand to hand skills. I practice 2x monthly in live fire skills, 3-4 times weekly in MMA and kickboxing. Its difficult to train in edged weapons (except in the kitchen or processing deer) and weapons of opportunity is more of an exercise in observation.
     
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  5. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Less lethal weapons should not be relegated to "Plan B". If they will suffice and are immediately necessary, they should be the tool of choice.

    I carry a pistol and pepper spray.
     
  6. gila_dog1

    gila_dog1 Member

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    I've traveled all over the world by foot, car, bus, ship, airplane, and railroad. When I travel I try to always have a weapon that I can take everywhere legally. Not a gun or knife, of course, or even pepper spray, but a simple wooden cane. This can be a very effective weapon if you know a few simple techniques. And you can carry it anywhere. Being an old geezer like I am, it doesn't even raise any suspicion from police or airport security. Once or twice I've had to hand my cane to the TSA people at the airport so they can look at it and make sure it's just a cane, and not a sword or something. Then aboard the airplane, just stick it into the overhead storage compartment with my carry-on luggage. Avoid a cane that looks like a weapon. Be a "gray man". Practice you basic moves.


     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I carried a cane or staff all the time until it became necessary to use a walker for safery.
     
  8. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    For me it is actually the gun that is plan B. Not even plan B but more like plan Z.
     
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  9. Scrapiron45

    Scrapiron45 Member

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    The reference to the pepper spray sticky was very helpful, the videos of the defensive cane were interesting, something I intend to follow up on. Something as simple and unobtrusive as a cane for defense appeals to me. Many thanks.
     
  10. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Pepper spray can be a double edged Sword, what ever is in arms reach would be my plan b.
     
  11. Atavar

    Atavar Member

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    I am a rideshare driver. I have a four step plan.
    A: Run away, drive or get out of the area however possible. Especially if carrying passengers
    B: Improvise, adapt and de-escalate. It is impossible to plan for everything
    C: 6" double edged Bowie Knife. Yes, I am trained. A knife is a better in vehicle defense tool than a firearm.
    D: Pistol is last resort.
     
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  12. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    If I was a marine (I was Army)... the stock reply would be "Sir, it depends on the weather, the situation, and the terrain...". If I were advising my officers it would be "do whatever it takes to survive".... and there you have it. Your first and most important duty each day -is to return to your family in one piece -or as close to that as you can get... Everything else is pretty much arm chair quarterback stuff in my opinion. This is from a guy who intends to avoid survival situations as much as possible - for as long as possible...
     
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  13. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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  14. AK Hunter

    AK Hunter Member

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    Stay aware of what is around to use as a weapon. Years ago I was in a buddies bar having a drink talking to my buddy. He was having a little trouble with a person that was way past drunk & he had cut him off. I was sitting at the bar when the guy pulled a knife on my buddy trying to get another drink. I picked up the bar stool next to me stepped back out of his view, as he was trying to lean over the bar I nailed him with the bar stool. The guy dropped to the floor dropping the knife. I kicked the knife out of his reach & my buddy told me to head out because he was going to have to call the cops. And didn't want me in any trouble.
    Improvised weapons can be found almost anywhere.
     
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  15. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Most places that won't let you carry a firearm won't let you in with a knife or pepper spray either. And typically enforced with a metal detector. At that point you can either take in something innocuous like a tactical pen or flashlight. Or very innocuous like a cane. Besides those options, you best be looking for improvised weapons that would be inside the NPE or non permissive environment.

    My favorite improvised weapon is a fire extinguisher. Buildings are supposed to have them and be easy to find by law. Spray isn't much good but they make a good blunt force weapon.
     
  16. Scrapiron45

    Scrapiron45 Member

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    Did a little research, it seems our state code prohibits firearms of course, knives with blades longer than 3 inches and any type of stun weapon. No mention of pepper spray however individual schools might have restrictions, gotta check on that.
    Looks like I'll have to take on Friday night football and the occasional band festival this year with a Sabre key chain, my little Spyderco and maybe spring for a good light.
    Thanks all.
     
  17. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    "Unconventional weapons".
    Metal yardstick - use thin edge to crack bones. Flat side just bends.
    Old umbrella - all cloth removed, metal point somewhat sharpened, can puncture abdomen or throat. Do NOT "slash" with it as shaft is hollow and will bend.
    Old piece of garden hose, hard and stiff. Hurts like "H".
    Old loppers. Non-cutting edge broke so I disassembled it and sharpened the blade. Hit them just right and give them a "second mouth" under the chin or open up their belly. Messy but effective.
    Heavy chef's knife, hard and strong enough to possible separate hand from arm at the wrist. May not fully decapitate but will get you at least halfway there (carotid or jugular). Also messy.
    The one thing not shown is something I keep in my car and that is the tube and ground spike for an old solar walkway light. Total length about 16-17" and the ground spike is either cast aluminum or zinc diecast - not very hard or durable BUT the spike is a "+" shape and I have filed it off to make both a sharp point and some "less blunt" edges on the 4 edges of the spike. It will hurt. :D

    Unconventional weapons.jpg
     
  18. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    I am sure you mean well,but taking classes from any that you do not know for sure have actually used any of their 'wonder moves ' in the real world is a BAD idea.

    I need to know [ not believe ] that any moves or techniques that I am taught or train with --------- actually work and have done so in the past.
     
  19. DeepSouth
    • Contributing Member

    DeepSouth Random Guy

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    Hard to beat a good 100 meter dash in many, if not most, situations.
     
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  20. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    A civilian shouldn't stand and fight if there is any possible way of leaving the situation without endangering yourself or others. Egos are a dangerous thing.
     
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  21. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Adherence to that naive philosophy would eliminate the sources of training for all air combat; for all missile defenses; for all ASW; and practically speaking, for all civilian and LEO defensive firearms usage and hostage rescue, firefighting, and real hand to hand combat.

    Nothing works all the time in all circumstances.
     
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  22. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    LOL, and that is what I will tell the greeter at the Pearly Gates when I roll in.

    I much prefer to have the knowledge that it worked at least once for that teacher.

    To each their own,but too many that I see "teaching" have NEVER seen the eye of the tiger,or even its tail.

    Took a class almost 2 years past and was THRILLED to learn from half a dozen men that had seen the eye,and a few ate it for lunch.

    I vetted them,as did a fellow on duty LEO friend.

    I would go back [ and plan to ] and well worth the price.

    The few on the boob tube that have their shows [ and they are SHOWS ] I see know less than I,and have seen less real world than I.

    to each their own.
     
  23. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Its worthwhile knowing some physical techniques for CQC but really if you've gotten to that point or the point where you need to draw your gun you've failed.

    Situational awareness is super underrated and is not the end all be all by any means. You should always be prepared to defend yourself.

    But the optimal situation is one in which you avoid confrontation in the first place.

    Avoiding confrontation and defending yourself should both be "at any means neccessary ".
     
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