pbearperry
Member
First mistake is being in a dark lonely parking lot,are you there to buy drugs or to get serviced by a hooker.If neither,there is no need to be there.lol
When do you draw?
- Thread starter AKElroy
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Second Amendment Liberal
Member
how does castle law apply to the situation? I don't know the legalities, but could it be said you have no duty to retreat because you're cornered?
expvideo
Member
Uhh... Yes?
Is there any better justification for lethal force than to not want to die?
jackstinson
Member
Yep, what he said.
OK. So someone says "give me your wallet" you are going to draw and fire?
Then you are going to trust twelve people to decide if you had "reasonable fear of death or bodily injury". They are going to be safely sitting in their jury room with all the time in the world to decide if your actions were just.
If the mantra "Tis better to be tried by twelve than carried by six" is the only yardstick you use to justify deadly force you just might be in for a surprise when those twelve decide your fate.
It must sound really cool from behind a keyboard cause we hear it in every thread on the subject.But if that is your measure of when to use deadly force, I'd hate to have to ask you for a light on the street.
Me I'll stick to knowing when I can legally use force. And just how much I can legally use.
I'd rather be able survive the street and a court of law. Prison isn't my idea of living.
Davionmaximus
Member
I agree 100% with EHL. If they continue to be agressive in the face of a weapon, thier intent is established.
expvideo
Member
I think you are misunderstanding the saying. It means that if you are in fear of death, you shouldn't be thinking about the legal ramifications of protecting yourself.
The saying does not apply to "give me your wallet". It applies to when they continue to approach you after you've drawn the weapon. In other words, it does not apply to the OP's first question. It applies to the OP's second question.
And yes, it is the only yard stick to measure by. If you are not in immediate fear of death or serious bodily injury, you should not be killing people. If you ARE, then you should not be worrying about the law, and you should be worrying about living to see the court room.
Harley Man
Member
Vegas George has got the idea here..I took a Close Quarters Combat Course, and from that training I would: First signs that something was about to go very badly I would draw my cocked and locked 1911 to the ready (45 degree) position remove the safety finger straight, and yell at the top of my lungs, while I was taking one large step at a time BACKWARDS. After 3 backwards steps with constant yelling and the bad guys still coming, finger on trigger and the person closest to me gets two in the chest ....If that doesn't scare off the other then he gets two to the chest. Just because you can't see in plain view they are carrying weapons doesn't mean they together can't kill you. Never under estimate your enemy. Viet Nam should have taught us that!!
Proud Viet Nam Vet
Proud Viet Nam Vet
hankdatank1362
Member
Two on one and they're still advancing, even though I have a gun drawn on them?
They're catching hollowpoints. That's all there is to it. I can only assume they mean to do me harm, and are probably geeked up on dope to boot.
They're catching hollowpoints. That's all there is to it. I can only assume they mean to do me harm, and are probably geeked up on dope to boot.
expvideo
Member
Why is that? You assume that they are just going to take the fake wallet and run. What if they want to rape you or beat you senseless or stab you for no apparent reason? What if they look at the contents of the wallet and then decide to kill you because you upset them? Thinking that you understand the mindset of a violent criminal is naive and dangerous. If anybody is going to get killed, it is going to be them. That is why I carry a gun. A fake wallet guarantees nothing, because these are violent criminals. They don't think like you or I do. They don't reason and they don't have compassion. And you are a fool if you think that anything but force is the correct response to them.
Harley Man
Member
Sorry but to me carring a fake wallet is sort of like carring a fake gun! Like someone said if the bad guys find out you pulled a fast on them before you have time to get away...your up a s--- creek without a paddle. As a matter of fact now that you have made them feel more stupid than they already are...the pain they will inflict will be 10 fold.
Do youself a favor this is not a sitution where a fake anything would work. CARRY A WEAPON!
Do youself a favor this is not a sitution where a fake anything would work. CARRY A WEAPON!
22-rimfire
Member
I would draw after they got a bit pushy. I would be pretty frightened at this point and if they are smart, they would leave as soon as they see the gun. Frightened people do unpredictable things. I'll let it go there.
DHJenkins
Member
If you are the type of person that unarmed criminals feel comfortable robbing, I'd consider carrying some heavy duty high-O.C. foam & a few Sudecon wipes in addition to your iron. It's not lethal and you can use it immediately to get away and call the police.
I carry some in the truck for dealing with vagrants - I don't want to escalate a confrontation with someone who's got a screw loose by introducing a weapon into the mix.
I carry some in the truck for dealing with vagrants - I don't want to escalate a confrontation with someone who's got a screw loose by introducing a weapon into the mix.
Ok, I am going to throw this out there. Keep in mind that it is my perception of reality, so correct me if I'm wrong.
If you draw your firearm on two 17 year old's, they are not going to continue to stand there and demand your wallet. They are going to be scared s***less. They are going to turn and run like the puke cowards that they are. HOWEVER...here's what I would do.
#1 I would back away slowly, gun drawn, while telling them not to come towards you. If they do, shoot at a leg area. (That is if they are unarmed and you KNOW that).
#2 If they start to pull out weapons, while you have your gun drawn, you'd better start shooting for real because they are not messing around.
If you draw your firearm on two 17 year old's, they are not going to continue to stand there and demand your wallet. They are going to be scared s***less. They are going to turn and run like the puke cowards that they are. HOWEVER...here's what I would do.
#1 I would back away slowly, gun drawn, while telling them not to come towards you. If they do, shoot at a leg area. (That is if they are unarmed and you KNOW that).
#2 If they start to pull out weapons, while you have your gun drawn, you'd better start shooting for real because they are not messing around.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
You might want to talk to a lawyer about that.
You're setting yourself up for a big fall with those tactics.
You shoot, its deadly force. You intentionally try to only wound you are admitting deadly force was not justified in your mind.
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expvideo
Member
Shooting for real is the only kind of shooting, IMO. Firearms are not "less-lethal" weapons, and using them as such either means that the use of force wasn't warranted, or it means that you are making a tactical mistake.
And I have personally had someone ask me "What are you going to shoot me?!", so yes, it does happen. He was lucky enough that his friend had a sober moment and pulled him back, or I would have answered his question. It's a long story and I don't want to talk about it, but yes, it happens. When people get drunk enough/high enough, they think they are tough. Tougher than your bullets.
DeathByCactus
Member
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- Sep 9, 2008
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First I assume they are armed and dangerous as they are already committing a felony offense. second, I draw and yell at them to back off. If they taunt me I start backing up slowly, "Attack and get shot!" If they approach me I will shoot them out of fear of my life. Since there is now a firearm in the picture, there is a lethal weapon they can use. What's to stop them from asking for my firearm next?
No is no. I live in TX, that is not tolerated here. I can shoot someone for breaking into my car. Would I? No, but I would shoot them with my digital camera/while calling the police.
No is no. I live in TX, that is not tolerated here. I can shoot someone for breaking into my car. Would I? No, but I would shoot them with my digital camera/while calling the police.
AKElroy
Member
In the scenario, I used two 17 year olds. Most LEO's will tell you they would much rather deal with an athletic adult vs. a skinny street kid because kids are much less predictable. With two of them, kids may strive to impress each other with their individual boldness. I can see one backing down; but I can also see two stiff up & refuse. I appreciate all the terrific responses. I cannot see giving my ID (with my home address) to two street punks I've just drawn on, so I am definately in the camp of yelling for them to back off while taking deliberate steps backword. If they persue? Then they have made the decision to fight with an armed man.
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swampshooter
Member
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- Sep 7, 2008
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warning shots
I live in the Rio Grande valley. On holidays it,s common for ignorant individuals to shoot their guns in the air. These bullets return with enough velocity to penetrate through roofs into homes and patios. Last year one penetrated my neighbors insulated patio cover and knocked the front ornament off of his auto. That is more than enough velocity to kill somebody, and people have been killed in the past by bullets fired into the air. Firing into the air is not a good idea, and will get you arrested if nothing else happens. Reckless endangerment of life is a felony in most locations. Now your going to loose your right to vote and to own firearms. warning shots are a dumb idea in an urban environment.
I live in the Rio Grande valley. On holidays it,s common for ignorant individuals to shoot their guns in the air. These bullets return with enough velocity to penetrate through roofs into homes and patios. Last year one penetrated my neighbors insulated patio cover and knocked the front ornament off of his auto. That is more than enough velocity to kill somebody, and people have been killed in the past by bullets fired into the air. Firing into the air is not a good idea, and will get you arrested if nothing else happens. Reckless endangerment of life is a felony in most locations. Now your going to loose your right to vote and to own firearms. warning shots are a dumb idea in an urban environment.
dobrzemetal
Member
Personally, If I was in your shoes, I would have tried to get to my car as fast as possible. If they continued to follow me or assaulted me then I would have no choice but to use deadly force.
Another thing, if you were to run around in the parking lot, most of them will have some kind of video taping devices around, so it will probably show you trying to get away, IE doing everything you could have done. Which will be better if the proverbial crap hits the fan, legally speaking.
In my circumstance, I carry some fox mace with addition to my sidearm (ha ha, yes a dude carrys mace). In this case I would of maced both of those f uckers in a heartbeat, end of story.
Another thing, if you were to run around in the parking lot, most of them will have some kind of video taping devices around, so it will probably show you trying to get away, IE doing everything you could have done. Which will be better if the proverbial crap hits the fan, legally speaking.
In my circumstance, I carry some fox mace with addition to my sidearm (ha ha, yes a dude carrys mace). In this case I would of maced both of those f uckers in a heartbeat, end of story.
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rbernie
Contributing Member
This would seem to be the prudent approach. I believe that most folk would understand why I might be in fear of my life or serious bodily injury if I tried to retreat and somebody continued to advance upon me despite the fact that I was pointing a firearm at them. Anyone who advances INTO an armed encounter should not be trifled with.
gdcpony
Member
No matter what someone may say later. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
At this point all the requirements have been met I believe and they have been warned, shown a firearm, and given an opportunity to leave.
Rack a round as a last warning. They might see that as their last chance and flee. If they are still there, I think I'd engage.
At this point all the requirements have been met I believe and they have been warned, shown a firearm, and given an opportunity to leave.
Rack a round as a last warning. They might see that as their last chance and flee. If they are still there, I think I'd engage.
AKElroy
Member
You are assuming they are respecting the pointed gun. It is not a hipnotic tool as the big screen suggests. Both hands on the gun, please.
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