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When do you walk away?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Axis II, Sep 23, 2021.

  1. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    I have complained on here before about my club but this one takes a new low. Just trying to get ideas on how to possibly fix this. I have spoke to quite a few guys and everyone is either afraid to speak up or doesnt think it will work but they all have similar concerns and gripes. I have been a member for awhile and enjoy most of the people and the convienience of being 5 miles away when I want to shoot. Over the years we have had a lot of changes with some being for the good and some for the bad, but lately its bad. Next closeset club is 1.5hrs away and always busy so I'd like some tips on how to possibly work on some issues.

    150-175 members. Yearly dues and work hours payment comes to $305 plus your NRA card-year plus now your forced to pay $25 2x year for club dinner tickets even if you dont want to come. Pre Covid and a previous club president it was $245-year. They recently upped the work hours because "no one was doing them and this was an attempt to get people to perform work hours". If you complete 12 work hours a year it brings your dues down to $65-yr. Does not matter if you complete 20hrs the first half your still required to do 6hr each half of the year. IMO $305 is pricey for a club with a 100yard range that pistol, 25, 50 and 75yard all must use together.

    Work hours: We have a mowing crew once a week with mornings and evenings alternating to mow and weed eat about 12 acres. They have 2 mowers and if you dont get there an hour before mowing starts your given a hand me down push mower and told push mow 10 acres. Sometimes you have 6-7 guys show up and end up getting sent home with 30min of work hours given because there is nothing for them to do or because someone on a commitee mowed the morning before.

    One year myself and a few current and former members made a large list or things that needed completed and brought it up at a meeting to try and get people work hours because at that time $245 was pricey for some. We shared it at the monthly meeting that only 40-50 members show up to and was told they would look into it. Most of these commitee members have been on the committee for 20-30yrs. Next thing we know is all the work was done without being anounced and the work was completed by commitee members or retirees at 10am on a Tuesday. Commitee members arent required to do work hours and some have in excess of 40-100 work hours a year. But yet they upped work hour dues with a vote from 40-50 people of the clubs 150-175 members. We suggested bringing up work that needed done at the monthly meeting and they did at this last meeting and decided that 2 days later, on a Tuesday at 10am they were going to do a ton of work. One member brought up not being notified when a work party was scheduled and was told come to the monthly meetings to find out. Due to 3 small kids and working full time he could not attend the meetings and ended up losing his membership because he could not afford dues + work hours but was fully willing to complete work on weekends. They said no weekend work because thats when the range is most active and no commitee members want to work on weekends.

    Membership say so: It is in my opinion and the opinion of guys I spoke with that voting should be approved by the majority and not allowing 2 members who dont approve to axe the entire thing. If we have 175 members than each member should have a say so and not just the 40-50 who show to the meetings to decide for the entire membership. Should members who show to the meeting have the only say so or should they send a letter, email, etc to everyone asking their opinion?

    Range availability: They are now allowing the public to pay to use the range on specific days and while those days were say once a month its now turned into 2-3 days a week. Should members be allowed to rent the range and club multiple times a year for their own personal parties, gain, etc and shut other members out from using the range?

    So far I have spoke to about 10-15 guys who i have known for awhile through the club and they all have similar concerns but not sure how to voice them. Personally, I am on the verge of just telling them to stick the membership and just find another hobby. A good friend of mine who's also a member said maybe we should write a letter to the club and post a petition asking that all members have a say so via email if you cannot attend a meeting and remove the rule where one person can deny a vote for the majority. We have tried approaching the president and other board members and everyone says thats the way this club has been in my 30yrs of being here. Well its time for some change. Are we being unreasonable about these issues? Just hang a petition up at the range sign in and hope for the best? Tell everyone how it is at a meeting? How would you guys improve on this?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  2. geronimotwo

    geronimotwo Member

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    Location:
    delaware co, ny
    sounds like you are expecting democratic results from a dictatorship..... perhaps having enough people sign a petition will get the attention of the ruling class?
     
  3. crstrode

    crstrode Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    46
    Defund the police.
    Tax the rich.
    Vote by proxy.
    Tear up the constitution.
    Ignore the law.

    Sound familiar?
     
    czhen, 230RN, wbm and 1 other person like this.
  4. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    Not really sure what that has to do with trying to stay and make a club better and not be run by the same 10 people who think because they have been there for 30yrs everyone else doesnt matter.

    I'm guessing your comment is saying I want it my way. Not really, it just gets old when your told you owe $300 now because its absolutly impossible to get work hours and it also gets a little old when you pack up and head to the range to find graduation or birthday balloons on the gate and your told your $300 doesnt mean **** because they paid $100 to rent the grounds for their sisters baby shower.
     
  5. CherokeeGunslinger

    CherokeeGunslinger Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Central OH
    It sounds clear to me that the leadership will kick dirt in your face for as much money as they can get.

    The only reason the committee members are doing the work hours themselves and refusing to accommodate the club's membership is so that you can't reduce your dues from $305 to $65. They're squeezing you guys for money. 150 members means over $45,000 a year, just in dues.

    I'd band up with the other guys and start demanding to know why they're charging so much and why they're renting out a range that you guys paid to use. If they don't play ball, then said band needs to start threatening to leave the club. It's like a union, but instead of going on strike, you just quit.

    As for the renting out of the range, that should be limited to once or twice a week. The closest club to me only lets non-members on their range once or twice a year, though they do it for free.

    If I was paying $25 for each of two dinners, I better be getting a steak done medium-rare that came off a Blackstone.
     
  6. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Back on Puget Sound
    Sounds like one of my local gun clubs, to which I let my membership lapse. Which also has incrementally installed increasingly draconian rules which now take about three typewritten pages to cover.

    What you are describing is purely unacceptable.
    Sorry, if the club hasn't been doing that, I'd be a former member. Does the club even send out (e-mail) or post the schedule for the upcoming month(s) so you know what days it won't be open? And you cannot sign up for the work days in advance, either at the club or via e-mail? That's also unacceptable.
    Again, sorry, but I'd vote with my feet and run away. Your club is going to die when all the "leadership" gets too old to run the place or starts dying off. I've seen it happen.

    I'd rather drive an hour to shoot comfortably at somewhere that meets all my needs rather than allow convenience of location to see me deprived of membership rights...
     
  7. DeepSouth
    • Contributing Member

    DeepSouth Contributing Member

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    Heart of Dixie
    I’d consider becoming one of those people
     
    pairof44sp, DustyGmt, danez71 and 5 others like this.
  8. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    May 24, 2008
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    Location:
    SW MO
    Are the paid range days compatible with your schedule? If so, quit and only show up then. If 50-60 do that "leadership" will get the idea.

    At a certain point all the oldsters will have to flush thru and newer generations will fix it - if they don't lose the property.
     
    Axis II and Golfanaticshooter like this.
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    26,797
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Yes +1.

    Looks like the club is well on its way to becoming a semi-public range using "slave members" as workers.

    I would cancel my club "work slavery" membership and become the "public" and shoot on public days which I am guessing will only increase over time.

    How far is the closest BLM land where you can shoot?

    If not too far, I would make target stands with a group of people and have distance/range marked off for 25/50/100/300 yard shooting. (That's what I do with locals in my area and we have dedicated 25/50/75/100 yard areas for pistol/rimfire/carbine shooting and 100/300/600 areas for rifle ... And local SD deputies and Forest Rangers are very supportive)
     
  10. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike Member

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    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    I don't think work hours should be used to offset dues. The dues are the expense of running the thing, to manage insurance, targets, benches, etc. The work hours should simply be a condition of joining and expected no matter what the dues. Costs should be totaled up and made public for all to review. Dues = total costs / current membership + 5% to fund a reserve.

    If you show up for your shift at work, you still expect to be paid even if your boss has nothing for you to do. If you're on the clock, you're not doing something else for yourself that you might otherwise want to, and that's what you're being paid for.
    The work hours at the club should be no different. If someone mowed the grass the day before, you shouldn't be penalized. You showed up to meet your obligation and now they have nothing for you to do. You should still get credit for your time there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
    Insignificant bill and Axis II like this.
  11. George Dickel

    George Dickel Member

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    Dec 30, 2002
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    Location:
    Florida
    The only way things will change is for the current leaders to be voted out of office. You and the others who are dissatisfied with the way the club is being run should get your names on the nomination list come election time and solicit votes from the membership. A petition means nothing to the current leadership as they are running things the way they want.
     
    ford8nr, Jimbo80, murf and 2 others like this.
  12. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    18,302
    Unfortunately it doesn’t matter if you are being reasonable, you’re playing at someone else’s place and they make the rules. Best way to improve that, at least for you, I know of is to own the place so you get to make the rules others complain about.
     
  13. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    May 26, 2007
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    15,035
    Location:
    Georgia
    Sounds like it could be better. But how much is it going to cost you to drive 1.5 hours each way to a more crowded range and have less time to shoot.

    I believe I'd stay and continue to try to make it better.
     
    Axis II likes this.
  14. Steve Milbocker

    Steve Milbocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2019
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    462
    Location:
    Michigan
    With those dues I’d think they could afford an Xmark and knock the mowing out in short order. Seems like a lot of acres for a limited range. I’d be looking for state ground or lease some ground to shoot for that kind of money.
     
    Heir Kommt Die Sonne likes this.
  15. Craig_VA
    • Contributing Member

    Craig_VA Contributing Member

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    887
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Sounds like time to use the by-laws to require an outside audit of all club financials.
     
  16. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Flatlandistan
    Run for office, tell the other members why, and what you and other dissatisfied members intend to do to change things.

    Get the mailing or email list and contact everyone. It's probably registered as a non profit, and regulated by the attorney general or other state entity. Register a complaint with them if required items are not forthcoming.

    Don't walk away, sounds like it's time for a coup d'etat.
     
    murf and kmw1954 like this.
  17. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Northwest Coast
    This has been ongoing and you should have read other threads as OP is willing, hard working and accommodating club member I think other members/club have taken advantage of. (On work days ... life happened and other club members didn't show ... Darn how could that be over and over and over ... ;))

    Sounds like this may be the final straw.

    I have been enslaved, oh I mean working for someone, all my life and at least THEY PAID ME. BUT OP IS PAYING THEM AND STILL PROVIDING SLAVE LABOR! :eek: :cuss:
     
    Axis II likes this.
  18. grampster
    • Contributing Member

    grampster Member

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    Sometime in a club, it's takes $$$ and effort to change things.

    Are you able to get the names and addresses of all of the members?

    If you can, and you already have a handful of members who are willing to help out, the group needs to pony up some $$ to produce a letter explaining your concerns and most of all, what your group thinks a good solution would be. The letter should also contain a questionnaire that supports or adds to your solution and a postage paid return envelope.

    Then, after absorbing the info from your letter and returns, put together petition for change listing what the membership wants to happen. Send a 2nd letter with a postage paid return envelope to the membership with a petition for change based on what your members indicated, which should be presented to the board of directors.
     
    geronimotwo likes this.
  19. Ivy Mike

    Ivy Mike Member

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    Las Vegas, NV
    Who actually owns the range? Is it public land being managed by this board?
     
    geronimotwo likes this.
  20. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,948
    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Walk.

    Maybe run.
     
    D.B. Cooper and Mark1964 like this.
  21. NorthBorder

    NorthBorder Member

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    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    2 miles past the end of the earth
    Absolutely. Who owns the real estate? They should have a fiduciary responsibility to show the members how the funds are being used.
     
    kmw1954 likes this.
  22. film495

    film495 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2019
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    1,551
    A few years ago - I started trying to join a local club. It was kind of a pain in the b-hole, and time consuming, and I resigned myself to driving an hour to shoot on some family property instead.
     
    P5 Guy likes this.
  23. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
    5,074
    He's saying your club is run like our country.
     
    Insignificant bill and Axis II like this.
  24. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    13,322
    Location:
    Texan by birth, in Colorado cause I hate humidity
    I pay $120 a year. No forced labor gulag. We have numerous pistol bays, 1, 3, 425, and 600y rifle ranges as well as shotgun ranges...
     
    Axis II likes this.
  25. Axis II

    Axis II Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,380
    They send an email 2-4 days after the club meeting saying what happened and who is renting the range and when. They list the shoots that close the range down and that’s about it.

    You can either mow or show to a meeting and hope they have a work party scheduled. They do not announce them via email. I have access to the club house and the work sheet always has the same 10 guys daily putting in daily work hours. We have been burned several times by asking to do work (not allowed unless a committee member is present) and they say they will put something together and end up doing it themselves. They are also the same guys who vote no when you ask to replace the 15yo riding mower.

    I thought about going to the 1.5hr drive range cause it’s 300 yards with each length dedicated and much better facilities for $120-yr no work hours. Only issue is they have 1500 members so it’s always busy and 1.5hrs away.
     
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