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When is Carry permit no longer valid when moving

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Carl696, Nov 13, 2017.

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  1. Carl696

    Carl696 Member

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    I just sold my home in WV on 11/8/17.
    I am closing on my new home in NC today 11/13/17 at 8:00 am.
    I have a WV CC license (one year into a five year term).
    Does my WV permit end when I sell my house in WV, and/ or it still valid until I change my address?
    I do plan on taking the required course in NC and applying for a carry permit here but can't apply until I have been a resident for 60 days.
    I have asked the sheriff's office in both states what is the law and gotten conflicting answers and "You should be good"
    I don't like the word "should" when there might be a felony involved.
    Any in put would be welcome.
     
  2. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    If the Sheriff's office in each state is the issuing authority i would imagine they know. You need to research the law of each state involved. I'm sure there is a time period required for a change of address. Your situation is different as you're moving to another state. If you can't understand the law see an attorney for advice. Worth a few dollars to avoid a felony IMO.

    The easy answer is just open carry in compliance with NC law until you get your NC CCW.
     
  3. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Law enforcement officers are unfortunately not a reliable source for this type of information. I am not an attorney, but it would seem to me once you leave your former resident state and become a resident of another state, you are no longer a resident of the former state and your permit from the former state becomes invalid.

    You might address your question via a written format, i.e., an email, to the attorney general's office of your new state.

    Until you change your official papers like driver's license and auto plates you may survive a casual encounter like a traffic stop with a LEO assuming there is reciprocity, but in a bad situation like a shooting where they will dig deeper, you will not.
     
  4. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Many states have a residency requirement in order to apply for a new license. I was able to apply for my AL license within 30 days of living in the state. I would recommend forgo carrying until you have an instate permit.
     
  5. entropy

    entropy Member

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    If there is reciprocity between WV and NC, you are covered until you establish residency in NC; then there will be a gray area in the time between then and when you are issued the NC CCW license. If there is no reciprocity, you will not be covered until you acquire an NC CCW. According to http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf , there is reciprocity, therefore you would be covered until you become an NC resident. Open Carry is legal in NC, however it is subject to both county and city regulation, so it would behoove you to study up on that, if you choose to OC until your NC CCW is valid.
     
  6. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    But handgunlaw.us also says that West Virginia will not issue a permit to a non-resident. That would lead me to conclude, absent legal authority to the contrary, that the permit of a West Virginia resident who moves out of West Virginia to establish residency in another State becomes invalid once he leaves West Virginia.
     
  7. entropy

    entropy Member

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    So he's the 'Man With No State'? I've moved between several states in this here United States, and both the states I've left and the ones I've moved to have legally considered me a resident of the one I left until residency was legally established in the one I moved to, with all legal documentation (Driver's license primarily) from the first State still in effect until residency is established. Indeed, in the case of driver's licenses, a 30 day grace period is usually allowed for obtaining a license from the state moved to once residency is established.
    Then there's the 'will not issue to a non-resident' and immediately recinding a resident liscenses dichotomy you introduced. No State I know of does that. He already has a WV CCW. It does not become immediately invalid once he crosses state lines. I'm sure there is plenty of case law to support this (probably moreso for DL's than CCW's) in WestLaw, but I don't have access.
     
  8. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Then find it and cite it.

    The thing is that what you think makes sense or is correct or is true doesn't mean anything. You must have legal authority to back your guess up. And it must be applicable authority. The fact that things might work a certain way for driver's licenses doesn't mean they work that way for carry permits -- unless you can cite applicable authority that says so.

    Remember that we're dealing with legal issues and possibly significant legal risks. Those are no places for guesses.

    There was also an easy way for the OP to cover himself. North Carolina recognizes all States' permits, so the OP could have easily gotten an Arizona or Florida permit (both relatively simple to get by mail) and thus have been assured of having a valid permit upon setting foot in North Carolina. But it's too late for a seamless transition.
     
  9. gc70

    gc70 Member

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  10. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    And here's how that works:

    1. If one takes the default position that the West Virginia carry permit is invalid once one moves out of West Virginia to take up residence somewhere else, and takes appropriate action to maintain some right to carry based on that default position (e. g., getting a non-resident permit from some State which is recognized wherever he's moving to), he's avoided legal complications if his default position is incorrect. That is the most conservative view and the one least likely to get one into trouble.

    2. If one assumes his West Virginia carry permit continues to be valid for a time when he moves, and he's wrong, he risks a criminal charge of unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon.

    3. There are some legal bases upon which to believe that one's West Virginia carry permit becomes invalid when he moves to take up residence in another State. Under 61-7-4(a)(2) one must be a resident of West Virginia to be eligible for a West Virginia carry permit. With regard to a change of residence, 61-7-4(l) provides (emphasis added):
      So provision is explicitly made for continued validity of a West Virginia carry permit when one moves to another location within West Virginia, but no provision is made for continued validity of a West Virginia carry permit when one moves to another State.
     
  11. hdwhit
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    hdwhit Member

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    I beg to disagree.

    The "most conservative" position is for the OP to simply stop carrying for the brief time after he leaves West Virginia and until he is eligible to apply for and obtain a North Carolina permit. If the OP is simply not carrying, then there can be no question about validity of whatever permit he might have or the limit of the reciprocity.
     
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  12. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    Thanks; a little explanation always enhances a discussion.
     
  13. entropy

    entropy Member

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    That's intrastate, not interstate. It also states that within the state it remains valid; if anything it would strengthen any case that it would also remain valid, interstate, barring case law or statute citing otherwise. Again, I don't have access to this. Obviously if there is a statute that sorts this out, I'm sure Carl696 would like to see it. That's probably why he posted in the first place.
     
  14. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    But without that there's no authority on which to argue that the permit remains valid for in interstate move -- unless you can come up with some. Your assumptions and guesses are useless.
     
  15. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    True, but it doesn't accomplish his purpose, i. e., to be able to continue to carry. Often there must be a balancing or risk vs. utility. A suitable non-resident permit from an appropriate State can minimize the risk as much as possible while preserving the utility.
     
  16. Berger.Fan222

    Berger.Fan222 Member

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    One fact that is often missed is that federal law allows one to maintain simultaneous residence in two states.

    Taking up residence in one state does not necessarily mean one has ceased residing in another state. But this requires some planning beforehand that does not seem to have happened here.
     
  17. Carl696

    Carl696 Member

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    First, thank you for all of the feed back.
    I think I will take hdwhit's advice and not carry until I get my new permit.
    I believe I need to be a resident for 60 days to apply. I survived in NJ for 45 years without carrying,what could go wrong?
    In the mean time I can take my training and get that out of the way
     
  18. kitsapshooter

    kitsapshooter Member

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    "A suitable non-resident permit from an appropriate State can minimize the risk as much as possible while preserving the utility."
    That is a risky statement to make, without an explicit cite to support it, given that many states do not honor out-of-state permits for residents of that state i..e. WA residents can not use an OR or FL permit to carry concealed in WA.

    Best thing to do is call these folks:
    "For more information as to the firearms laws in North Carolina, or to make suggestions as to how to improve this publication, please contact the Law Enforcement Liaison Section of the Department of Justice at (919) 716-6725.?
     
  19. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    I believe that the license becomes invalid once the OP moves out of WV:
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  20. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    30 days
     
  21. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Spats, thanks for noticing 61-7-5. That provides a definitive answer for the OP.
     
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