When to anneal your brass?

[riverfoxtwo]

I'm new to rifle reloading and this is probably a dumb question but I have not seen anything concerning at what point in the reloading process you anneal. Is it after you clean and resize?

 

[Cheesemaker]

Some will say you do not need to. Some will say after 5 (or so reloadings).Some may say every time you resize.
What are you after?

If you anneal, yes, after cleaning and resizing.

 

[Nature Boy]

I think it depends on why you’re annealing.

I anneal before I size because I want consistent neck tension for best accuracy. I also anneal after every firing for the same reason.

I think if your reason is for annealing is to extend brass life by minimizing neck splitting then you could do it either before or after sizing and would only need to do it every 3rd or 4th time

 

[riverfoxtwo]

That clears up what I needed. Thanks guys. One other question though, what is the correct temp for annealing? I think I'll be using the salt bath with the Lee melting pot.

 

[Chuck R.]

Actually Ken Light, manufacturer of my BC1000 recommends annealing BEFORE resizing in his instructions:

The last question is, "Do I anneal before resizing, or after"? Theoretically annealing does not change the diameter of the case neck. In practice, it may or may not, depending on how much the metal is stressed. Therefore, you should always anneal before resizing.

A pretty good article about annealing:

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

 

[Walkalong]

Standard chambers? (Not tight necked) No more than after every second or third firing for the most consistent neck tension. And of course how much you are working the case neck each time makes a difference. Question is, does it matter on target. On my third firing of new Lapua in .308 in my FN-SPR I can tell a difference in neck tension on the third loading. Enough to worry about yet? I'm not sure it is, but it is different.

That said, if you have the setup, why not after every firing. No reason not to. People used to set world records and win matches with brass that wasn't annealed all the time, but it is very popular these days.

 

[rayatphonix]

Riverfox, I anneal at about 500 degrees C in my salt bath for 5 to 7 seconds.

 

[riverfoxtwo]

Actually Ken Light, manufacturer of my BC1000 recommends annealing BEFORE resizing in his instructions:



A pretty good article about annealing:

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Great info, thanks for the link to it!

 

[Blue68f100]

I anneal after every firing before sizing. My neighbor had some brass that split out on the first sizing, it was once fired in his gun. I think mfg are just doing min to get by and save money. So now he brings me his brass to anneal. As far as temp is required, you only need to get to 750F. This is just before the flame color change. Use TempLac to setup your process. You do not need to take the brass back to full soft, which can happen if you over cook them.

 

[Varminterror]

I've played with different protocols over the years, and for me, it comes down to the cartridge. For high pressure magnums like 300RUM, 7rem mag, etc, I anneal every loading. For 6 creed, I'll anneal every loading. For 223rem, I go every 3rd.

Loose pockets and lost in the grass are really the only deaths my brass suffers, ever since I started annealing.

 

[Damon555]

Anneal before cleaning and sizing is the way to go AFAIK.

I know you didn't ask how but here's an easy way to check out the process to see if it might be of benefit to you.

Get ya a propane or propylene torch and chuck up a socket in a cordless drill that will hold the case head without too much wobble, set the torch up in a stable place, turn off the lights and spin the neck of the case at the tip of the flame until you see it just start to glow. Remove it from the flame and set aside in a safe place to cool. The idea is to get the neck hot enough to accomplish the annealing process without transmitting too much heat down the shoulder and sides of the case.

There are several different methods to accomplish this task that involve quenching and/or positioning the brass in a container partially filled with water or using tempilaq to get the temp close to what you're looking for......My brother, who has worked with metal his entire life, told me that done properly you don't really need to use extravagant setups to get it done correctly......of course if you plan on doing it on a regular basis (which I find unnecessary) you might find it advantageous to get a dedicated set-up.

......but the only brass I've ever annealed was a batch of 100 Norma 6mm XC cases. I didn't anneal them for the first time until I got my first split neck....after about 7 firings. After the initial go around with the torch I waited until the batch had another split neck.....I think it was after another 5 firings. I haven't had another split neck as of yet and they've been shot another 3 or 4 times.

The reason I annealed that brass was because they are pretty expensive and I wanted to maximize their life span because I shot that first batch a lot. I don't recall ever needing to anneal any other brass.....probably because I either have a bunch of brass in that particular caliber (223, 308) or I don't shoot that caliber often enough to warrant the effort (7mm-08, 22-250)......Some folks anneal after each firing of all their brass.....that might work for them but it seems like a waste of time to me......Heck, I reloaded for 10+ years before I ever even knew about the whole process. When you are just starting out there are much more important things to worry about........(boy, that got long winded.....sorry)

 

[bikemutt]

As far as annealing before or after cleaning, it may depend on the annealing method. I've heard the flame throwers may tend to bake the carbon into the neck if done pre-cleaning, not sure about salt baths. I use the Bench-Source flame thrower, I clean first as I hate getting media stuck in the primer pockets and flash holes, de-prime, anneal, then size, trim etc. I haven't decided yet if I'll anneal every time but probably will as it's so easy with the Bench-Source.

 

[Damon555]

I did run into some blackening of the necks.....a few twists in some fine steel wool will clean them up nicely.

 

[Nature Boy]

I use 750 deg Tempilaq on the inside of the mouth. I use scrap brass so I don’t mess up my good cases.

Once the Tempilaq melts you know you’ve reached the desired temp.

I think heating till the brass glows may be getting them too hot. Its an often debated topic

 

[Walkalong]

I think heating till the brass glows may be getting them too hot.

Most definitely IMO.

 

[Damon555]

That's the idea behind doing it in the dark.....at the first sign of color take it off the heat. My brother initially tested annealing his brass with tempilaq and it started melting right at that point........when I got home to try it on my 6XC brass I didn't bother getting any......worked like a charm.

 

[bikemutt]

I use 750 deg Tempilaq on the inside of the mouth. I use scrap brass so I don’t mess up my good cases.

Once the Tempilaq melts you know you’ve reached the desired temp.

Nature Boy, Tempilaq inside the case mouth has defied me so far, I just can't see well enough to know when it's melted. Would you mind sharing how you determine when melting occurs?

I paint a Tempilaq stripe on the outside of my case starting just below the body-shoulder junction, I find I can see the melt better that way. The downside is it is possible to bar-b-que the Tempilaq with the direct flame.

 

[Blue68f100]

When first applied and it drys it's a dull/flat in color. When it reaches temperate it will be glossy/wet look.

 

[Slamfire]

I think heating till the brass glows may be getting them too hot. Its an often debated topic

I will agree with this, just having done this on 30-06 cases necked up to 35 Whelen. I over annealed a number of cases and even after a couple of firings, I am still finding cases where I can rotate the bullet in the case with my fingers. I don't know just if/when these cases will be work hardened satisfactorily.

Until then, I am blaming the flyers on over annealed cases!

This is one of my better groups: Some of the worst groups won't fit on a 8" X 11" piece of paper.



Yes, the flyers have to be due to over annealing, can't be possibly due to flinching.....

On the next go around, I will continue to anneal in the inky shadows, but I will drop the case the instant I see any color. I might try annealing in daylight, and just get some blue on the neck, before dropping the case.

 

[Nature Boy]

Would you mind sharing how you determine when melting occurs?.

I’ll try. I don’t have a YouTube channel to post a video on but there are plenty on there. I’m just following what other people have done

I’m using an Annealeez. Not much different than using a torch, socket and drill, just easier to control.

First, shake the ever loving hell out of the bottle of Tempilaq. It doesn’t stay in soultion very well.

As I mentioned, I use scrap cases to get the time and flame adjusted. Paint in a thin amount inside the mouth like you see on the left and let it dry. The right is how it looks after it reaches 750 deg.



I time the dwell in the flame so the case drops just after the Tempilaq turns clear. That’s usually around 6-7 seconds. I point the tip of the flame right at the junction between the neck and shoulder as you see below



If I was doing it with a dril and socket I’d practice a few times with some scrap brass to where I could see the Tempilaq turn clear and time the process. Once you get the time repeatable then you could move on to your shooting batch, without Tempilaq, and process with a focus on consistency.

When I’m done, the brass has a very slight color change like this



Was this helpful? If not let me know and I’ll take another crack at it

 

[sage5907]

I also anneal after I resize. I decide after I resize each case if that particular case needs to be annealed and that depends on how hard the expander pulls through the case neck. If the expander slides through easily I don't anneal that case. If there is any resistance at all I place the case in a group to be annealed. I want each bullet to seat easily so if the case neck is already soft there is no need to anneal. Even new cases may need to be annealed. I spin each case in a deep socket in front of a propane torch and count slowly to get each case neck and shoulder to the right temperature. To me annealing is just part of the case preparation and I anneal every time a case neck shows to be hard.

 

[bikemutt]

Was this helpful? If not let me know and I’ll take another crack at it

That's very helpful, thank you.

I think the trick with Tempilaq is a person almost has to do it wrong a few times in order to get it right. When I tried painting it on the inside of the neck, I planned to swab it with a cotton swab when it was done, looking for the Tempilaq to be liquid, that's when I learned to wear gloves . I never could tell if I hit the magic temperature or not.

I moved to the strip of Tempilaq on the case and followed the instructions that came with the annealer, I think I have it nailed down now. I'm using 650 degree Temiplaq and the brass I'm working with is Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor, I landed on 2.5 seconds with the two-torch annealer.

I may go back now and re-visit painting it inside the neck to see what it looks like.

Here' what I ended up with:


Here's what the color looks like on mine:

 

[Varminterror]

Blackening in a torch annealer is a setting issue. Either you’re running a carburizing flame, or you’re not near enough the inner cone of the flame with the brass.

 

[bikemutt]

Blackening in a torch annealer is a setting issue. Either you’re running a carburizing flame, or you’re not near enough the inner cone of the flame with the brass.

Blackening of what Varminterror, the Tempilaq, the brass?

 

[Sofie007]

For tempalaq, I use 650 deg. F, as this is at the lower range of target annealing temp, and reaction time to remove flame will result in brass getting a little higher than this. Main point is to not get the head annealed or softened in the least. Also, it is undesireable to quench the neck in water. Best to slowly let them quench in air slowly, as quick quenching may harden the metal a bit.
For nonmatch purposes, quench approx every 6th shooting is standard fare to extend life. Shoot on!