When will they learn ?

[skeeziks]

I wonder what the 2 servicemen that were in the theater would have done if they had had their weapons on them?

 

[krupparms]

I agree with DR. Hupp. If my memory serves me right she works to promote gun rights AND Victims rights. Just trying not to forget that part.

 

[buck460XVR]

You choose to lay there and let fate dictate the course of events. Others here are not the same. I know what I would do because I have done it, you doubt yourself because you have not. It's that simple.

Again, another Rambo puttin' words in my mouth. I never said I would choose to lie there and let fate dictate the course of events. I said in a similar scenario, I would put the safety of my loved ones and those closest to me the priority as opposed to jumping up and shooting blindly into a crowded, dark, smoke filled room while my eyes were burning from tear gas. I don't doubt myself, I just know the difference between fantasy and reality. The reality is that no, I have not been attacked in a crowded dark theater filled with smoke by a heavily armed gunman, while crowds of panicked folk run around wildly. The reality is, neither have you. Thinking you have and thinking you would know exactly what you would do is the fantasy. You are correct tho, plenty of us in the real world have been in similar situations. Does not make any of us an expert on this one.

Buck460XVR, I could live with the fact that I did everything I could to stop the act from taking place. I've had to make those kinds of choices before. Sometimes there is not a right or wrong action. Sometimes it is just a matter of taking some form of action.

Again, in this scenario, unless you are a psychic, there was no way of knowing what was going down until it happened. So much for stopping the act from taking place. From there on it is just a matter of keeping causalities to a minimum. As I said before, it's not that I would do nothing, I would make sure those close and dear to me would have the best possible chance to survive. A pretty clear choice for me. Once that was for certain, then would be the time for my concern of others. Again, my family and loved ones come first. This is regardless of scenario. If you would rather protect strangers than those closest to you, I feel sorry for your family.

I don't see my decision to concealed carry as just a form of SELF-defense. It is a matter of defense as a whole. I choose to live by a code. It's a code that puts others before self. I fully realize that not everyone lives by the same code. I never projected my actions onto you. I never said that you should act in any way that goes against your beliefs. I just don't appreciate being painted in a negative light because of my beliefs.

Concealed carry, unless you are a LEO, is for SD. Those who get a CWC so they can go on the offensive are just as dangerous as the bad guy. I believe some call them Mall Ninjas. I believe they have codes too. Carrying Concealed with the idea that you are out to protect society as a whole is the main argument anti's have against CWC. Like it or not it is putting legal CWCers in a negative light. I don't solely carry for my own protection either. I carry primarily to protect those close to me that may be threatened. I also carry within the legal parameters of my license, which means I don't get to play cop or swat team. It also means if I carry into a posted place of business that I too may be considered a criminal. Instead of breaking the law, I'll go somewhere else or do something different.

The sheep will never protect the sheep dogs from the wolves. When the sheep dogs blend in with the flock, the wolves will always have their way.

The sheep are pretty damn vulnerable when the sheep dog chases after a wolf that is not threatening the flock and lets another wolf in the back door. Good sheep dogs are trained to stay with the flock and to protect them. Sheep dogs that leave them to fend for themselves generally don't have much of a flock left or a long career. Sheep dogs that blend in with the wolves generally don't live long either. Just sayin'.

We are not all victims. Some of us refuse to be.

I don't remember anyone here preaching to be a victim. All I have read here is that some feel that letting every CCW open fire in a crowded smoke filled theater is not always the best answer. Sometimes Shakespeare is right.......sometimes, "The better part of valor is discretion".

 

[gym]

Never say no one, or everyone, there is no such thing. Some people run away from danger and some run twords it. We see this everyday with frefighters and miltary personell. You may not know how you react under stress, of gunfire, but please don't assume that some of us here react the same way.
I know exactlly how I react. I have been shot at moe than 1 time, and my innitial response is I get pissed off. And refuse to be dominated by punks, and scum of the earth psyscopaths. I never want anyone to dictate how I go out if other than natural causes I want something to say about it.

 

[krupparms]

That is a big +1 from me. Buck said it much better than I could!

 

[marksman13]

Buck, the mall ninja crap is a little over the top. The bottom line is that as a Christian, a soldier and a decent human being, I have a responsibility to do what I can to protect my fellow man. If that contradicts what you believe than so be it. Ideas like yours put CCW in just as negative a light as my ideas. "Oh look. The CCW permit holder said he wouldn't try to stop this from happening. What good is his gun if he isn't going to use it?"

It's not about being a hero. It's about doing what is right and moral and if there are consequences to that than so be it.

You are right about one thing. I don't know what would have happened of I had been there and used force to try to stop this attack. I do, however, know what happened as a result of no one trying to stop it. Over 70 innocent people were shot. I could handle trying and failing. I could not live knowing that I never tried.

Does it make you feel better to think that I might just be some punk-kid with a Rambo fantasy? You can believe what ever you'd like. The bottom line is that i know who I am, what I am and what I stand for. I've posted here long enough that if I wasn't the kind of person I portray myself to be, it would have sorted itself out long ago.

 

[krupparms]

Alot of us here have been shot at &knows what it is like! Sometimes it is your job to run to the shooting &some feel a moral obligation to do so. As a veteran & former LEO, I also agree with you up to a point! If I have people that I love with me I Am going to get them to safety as my first priority! Then if I see that I can make POSITIVE IMPACT &ONLY THEN would I go into a situation. If you choose to take another choice of action that is up to you! My 9mm or .45 is not the best choice but if thats all ya got! I don't see any reason to argue over this, but if you must? This is a waste of time! Have a nice evening!

 

[David E]

Until we know why he did this we can only guess &speculate.

Who cares WHY he did this? Would it change anything?

If someone starts blazing away into a crowded that I'm attending, I can guarantee you my first thought isn't going to be, "Gee, I wonder why he's doing this....."

 

[marksman13]

Krupparms, the argument I have made from the beginning is that finding safety in a situation like this is impossible. The shooter likely had the exits blocked if the theatre was designed like the ones I am used to. There is no way to exit without going to the front of the theatre which is where Holmes was apparently standing. If I am mistaken on this I apologize. I am strictly drawing from my personal movie going experience. The emergency exits and the path to the main exit is usually located at the front of the theatre.

If that is the case, the only path to safety is to kill/immobilize/force the attacker to retreat. There aren't many other options. That has been my argument from the beginning. If the only path to safety is through the shooter then through the shooter one must go.

Shielding family members with your own body is a poor strategy. The likely hood of high powered rifle rounds/slugs penetrating through the "shield" and still killing loved ones is high. Stopping the attack completely is the only way to guarantee their safety. Apparently this makes me a mall ninja.

 

[Burt Blade]

Some see duty as only to oneself.

Some see duty as only to family and oneself.

Some see duty as larger than their immediate self and kin. Societies are built on this group. When we disparage or discourage a sense of duty to non-kin, society is in mortal peril.

Courage under fire is demonstrably teachable, a learnable cultural norm. The US armed forces make Duty and the Courage to carry it out a cornerstone of their culture, and the results speak for themselves.

To be worthy of them, we must also be willing to be courageous, to do that which is hard and dangerous, even when to do otherwise seems safer and even acceptable. We must praise those who try, even though they may fail. We must accept that to fight evil is to accept damage and loss. For the day that we give up Courage or Duty, we have given up that which makes Liberty and even society as a whole possible. The long slide into the abyss begins with a gathering acceptance of “Not my job to deal with this…”.

 

[krupparms]

To all of you that would put me down for my opinion,All as I can say is those are wonderful words & thoughts! Let get some things said! I didn't have to go to the broken arrow that made me disabled.I was off duty after a 43hr. shift. But I did! I didn't have to go into a cloud of poison gas w/out any protection! But I did! My friends &people that I didn't know needed me so I went! Even after I got sick, I still worked! I am 100% disabled due to a service connection injury & am still fighting the V.A.! Where are the people that are supposed to protect my rights? Yes I am older & I hope wiser! I will look before just rushing in! Sorry to go off post! I will shut up &go away! What the H**- is a mall ninja anyway!!

 

[marksman13]

Krupparms, thank you for your service. Nobody is doubting your courage or integrity. People are just disagreeing with you about the best course of action in this scenario.

 

[krupparms]

Disagreement is one thing. Name calling is something else! If there is no way out we all know assault thru! But people got out without having to do so! ( I did watch interviews w/victims ) . I have tryed to get you to see that we are all victims of this man because it hurts the fight against our gun rights. You are not the only people that have had to make hard choices! I stated that your choice is yours but that did not make you happy! It was putting me down! You have fallen into the trap! Why are we argueing? And I still have no idea what a mall ninja is!!!

 

[Walkalong]

Off topic for about 2 1/2 pages, and going nowhere.