Where Do You Carry Everything?

[WrongHanded]

If you are going to have a cover garment, then your practice needs to be done while wearing that cover garment or one that is identical.

A very good point. I often wear a very light weight button up/down shirt for hiking. It's made of some "technical" material, and doesn't flow like most shirts. The first time I wound out I couldn't sweep it backwards and reliably clear my gun and holster was long after the first time I'd worn it hiking. I just assumed, and I was wrong. A different technique or carry method is required for that garment.

Not all cover garments that are open fronted sweep back in the same way. Not all closed fronted cover garments lift up in the same way. Multiple layers can also become an issue, and whilst the arrangement of them can help, practice gives you a much better idea of how things will go, if snags will be a problem etc.

I don't care which pocket I have my keys in (so long as I have them). I DO care that I can get to my gun and present it for a first shot quickly, smoothly and reliably.

 

[Armored farmer]

I'm a jeans, boots, and polo guy.
Hellcat at 4o'clock no spare mag. Its in the truck.
Knife in right front
Bandana in right rear(I know but been carrying one since childhood)
Billfold left rear
Streamlight Microstream light in left front.
Ink pen in left front.
Cellphone in left front.
I rarely carry keys. Electronic locks on vehicles and house.
Every day.

I thought that I carried too much stuff. Some of you guys make me feel better.
One thing that some folks find hard to fathom on that I spend about 75% of my life within sight of my house.

 

[SharpDog]

I use a couple of Maxpedition / Condor pouches on my belt.

I use a TC-2 pouch for my phone, and a 'tactical' space pen, a small condor pouch for earphones, meds, flashlight, and a spare magazine. Folding knife, lighter, keys and wallet go in my pocket. Fixed blade in my back pocket and a strong side concealed holster (IWB or OWB). Multi-tool in a belt pouch. I have an oversized cover shirt or light jacket on usually.

 

[Old Dog]

Of late, the 5.11 Apex pants have become favorites (stretchy, with a stretch waistband and plenty'o'pockets, including zipper cargo pockets). Got 'em in every color they're made in... (six).

I normally wear a Commander sized 1911, SIG P-228, P-229 or P-365XL strongside in an OWB pancake at about 3:30, single mag pouch at about 8:00 on left hip, small flashlight (Fenix or Streamlight) in right-side cargo pocket in the mag pouch divider), folding knife in right side front pocket, cell phone in shirt pocket or left-side cargo pocket, Mk3 OC in left side front pocket.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Of late, the 5.11 Apex pants have become favorites (stretchy, with a stretch waistband and plenty'o'pockets, including zipper cargo pockets). Got 'em in every color they're made in... (six).

I normally wear a Commander sized 1911, SIG P-228, P-229 or P-365XL strongside in an OWB pancake at about 3:30, single mag pouch at about 8:00 on left hip, small flashlight (Fenix or Streamlight) in right-side cargo pocket in the mag pouch divider), folding knife in right side front pocket, cell phone in shirt pocket or left-side cargo pocket, Mk3 OC in left side front pocket.

I was looking at those 5.11 and the Tre-Spec pants, but that doesn't meet the dress code for some of the places I go. Everywhere else, it's Carhartts.

I have a Fenix PD35 that I'd like to carry, but it's just huge. Unless I wear a sport coat, that thing isn't hiding. Pepper spray on a belt would be best, but, like the light-too big. Even the small key chain version doesn't only fits in a picket alone. (As it should be; who wants to "fish" through their pocket, by feel, to discriminate OC spray from cell phone and car keys etc.-especially under stress.

This is really why I started this thread. Where do you put that stuff. Unless you really do wear cargo pants, there just aren't enough pockets. I could put it all on a belt, but then I have a problem concealing it all. Even on a belt, that additional weight is going to cause the pants to sag.

 

[Rexster]

When wearing something like VertX cargo trousers, and wearing a belt, I carry the handgun about 0300, or just a bit forward of that, OWB. A straight-bladed pocket knife is clipped into the right front pocket. A Surefire light is clipped into the right rear pocket. The phone goes in the left cargo pocket. If the handgun is an auto, the spare mag is on the belt, on my left side. Everything else is in a state of flux, with no consistent location.

The knife that I used to carry, for years, in the left front pocket, is no longer consistently there. I think that I may well resume carry a serious blade, in the left front pocket, but perhaps a different blade, to be determined after some experimentation. I may be about to get away from cargo trousers, and start carrying my iPhone in that left front pocket, but, NOT because some you-tuber said so.

AIWB, affixed to the trousers belt, does NOT work for me, for all-day carry. The Phlster Enigma is the only way I have found to carry AIWB for an extended period of time. I still regard AIWB as a way to carry a second gun, a blade, or a light, rather than a “primary” handgun.

As part of my potential move away from cargo trousers, I have been looking at various small bags and pouches. I have a few, but I am looking, again, for something nice enough to blend when dressed-up, but tough enough to carry daily, and splash/rain/moisture resistant. Soaked-through perspiration has been damaging too many things. (I live in wet, green, humid SE Texas.)

I see a bag as a way to resume toting OC spray, which I have not carried, for quite some time.

 

[Cayle]

I, personally, do not carry anything "less than lethal". With today's sympathetic jurys it can easily be used against you by someone who wasn't there, didn't have the adrenaline rush, and is too stupid to get out of jury duty.

"Why didn't you just use your pepper spray?"

 

[murf]

bug and spare bug mag in left front pocket; keys with flashlight, wallet, knife, bic lighter and spare bug mag in right front pocket; glock 19, or 30, owb @ 4:00 about 10% of the time. nothing in my back pockets. jeans and t-shirt 99% of the time.

murf

 

[The Night Rider]

I, personally, do not carry anything "less than lethal". With today's sympathetic jurys it can easily be used against you by someone who wasn't there, didn't have the adrenaline rush, and is too stupid to get out of jury duty.

"Why didn't you just use your pepper spray?"

Can you cite any instances of this happening?

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

G26 with G19 mag OWB strongside (right side @ 3:30ish), pocket knife, torch, keys and snus in right front pocket. Spare G19 mag OWB weakside, wallet in left front pocket. Cellphone left back pocket, if I'm carrying it.


Not all of it but you get the idea...

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I carry my sidearm at 3:30, sometimes IWB sometimes OWB but always at that position. Spare mag goes on a Safariland 123 at 11 o'clock on my gunbelt. Cell phone in left front pocket, car keys in right front pocket. Wallet in left/right rear pocket (for 40 years it was right rear but I wrecked my shoulder a year and a half ago and had to switch to the left, but I'm trying to see if I can go back to the right). Flashlight is clipped to right pocket with the light body in the watch pocket. Spyderco Delica in left rear pocket.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I don't carry a spare mag.

To address your point (which also used to be a concern of mine), may I suggest learning to clear a type III malfunction by removing the mag from the gun and retaining it in your dominant hand while you do your rack-rack-rack?

Or, you can use the method that doesn't rely on the rack-rack-rack.

Neither requires a spare mag

John Correia demonstrates both techniques here:

First, Correia assumes his magazine is fully seated but it may not be. Seat belts, bumping into things, and a ground fight can cause the magazine to become unseated. Tapping the base of the magazine to ensure it's seated, as part of your ingrained response to a stoppage, adds an insignificant amount of time. Plus tap/rack uses the same exact motions as when loading or reloading the pistol, so removing the "tap" part adds another decision that makes no sense from an OODA Loop perspective. (And... if your unseated mag falls out of the pistol during your draw stroke, then a spare magazine may save the day.)

Second, an empty magazine produces the same exact symptoms he's using to diagnose a doublefeed. Most defenders shoot more rounds than they believe. Therefore, if tap/rack doesn't solve the problem, then a combat reload is the next immediate action. However, if you're out in the open, then your first priority is to get moving to keep from getting shot instead of standing still and being an easy target while you reload.

Third, clearing a stovepipe sometimes produces a doublefeed because the pistol is trying to simultaneously feed a cartridge into the chamber when the failure to eject interrupted the process.

The primary cause of most stoppages is an empty magazine.

Whereas tap/rack is one action that solves more than one type of stoppage.

The least likely stoppage to happen is a doublefeed, and when a doublefeed happens it's most likely to happen because of tap/rack, as opposed to an actual extractor problem.

The non-diagnostic sequence for clearing a stoppage is:

1. Tap/rack
2. Combat reload
3. Clear doublefeed

Always carry a spare magazine otherwise you're being complacent.

Correia has no way to test his theory of diagnosing stoppages works under extreme stress until he's in an actual gunfight.

 

[JohnKSa]

First, Correia assumes his magazine is fully seated but it may not be. Seat belts, bumping into things, and a ground fight can cause the magazine to become unseated.

Especially with the trend of adding extended/oversized mag releases to carry guns.

 

[aaaaa]

I have a J-frame in the right front pocket, a minimalist wallet, flip cell phone, and speed strip in the left front pocket, a full size wallet in my left back pocket, and keys in my right back pocket. Then I just started carrying a Kel Tec P32 in a leg holster with an extra magazine. Not much room for anything else. I could run a second leg holster for other items.

 

[Plan2Live]

For me it's really simple. Pistol on the right side, either in a pocket holster or belt holster, knife with a "flipper" clipped onto the left rear pocket to be used as encouragement to let go of my gun in a self defense struggle, spare mag in a mag holster on the left, cell phone either left front pocket in summer or left jacket pocket in winter. I rarely carry a flashlight but if I do I am normally wearing cargo pants so left cargo pocket for that. I never carry pepper spray, compass, pocket fire extinguisher, fire starter kit, sutures, emergency pup tent, rappelling gear with 100 feet of rope, night vision goggles or any of the other EDC stuff some people claim to carry on their person every time the step out of the shower. With that last part said, I might have a backpack in my vehicle with some extra goodies in it like Band-Aids, bug spray, Benadryl spray, an extra pair of socks, etc. but I don't tote it all around on my person going to the mall.

 

[luzyfuerza]

There are two situations that make carrying a spare mag necessary: 1) shooting a gun dry, and 2) having a magazine break or fall out of the gun.

Anyone who feels the need to be prepared for either of these should definitely carry a spare mag. In a location that keeps the fresh mag clean and properly oriented.

However, quickly diagnosing and resolving type I, type II, or type III malfunctions does NOT require a spare magazine. Nor is having a spare magazine really even an advantage here.

This process is simple, clear, and easily learned.

(ETA: John's video takes shortcuts in this process that I do not agree with. I attached the video only to demo the alternative method of clearing a type III.)

By contrast, @Shawn Dodson , your post turns "...clear, and easily-learned..." into a muddy mess. It certainly does NOT support this conclusion:

Always carry a spare magazine otherwise you're being complacent.

If you want to discuss malfunction clearances in more depth, perhaps starting a new thread in this subforum would make sense.

 

[Rexster]

Magazines most certainly can be unintentionally ejected from one’s pistol. A reason that I switched duty pistols, in 1993, was because my SIG P220’s magazine had been partially released, three or four times, even though this was the original-pattern P220, with the heel-clip-type magazine release. The mags did not drop free, as some tension is maintained. In each of my personal cases, the mag release had snagged the seat back fabric in patrol cars. A colleague experienced a similar partial release, with his P220, when he found himself backed into a chain-link fence, during a struggle with a criminal.

My one Wilson Combat 1911 accidentally/incidentally ejected its mag about twice, as I remember it. I do not remember if the mag release button was significantly extended, but, it was not oversized. None of my other 1911 pistols have had this happen.

At least one police body-cam video showed a Houston PD officer unintentionally releasing his pistol’s magazine multiple times, during a gunfight. One time, he had to move into the open, to retrieve one of his dropped magazines, in order to have any ammo in his pistol. It looked like the officer’s large hands made his thumbs susceptible to touching the mag release, unintentionally.

So, yes, a significant reason to have at least one spare mag, is to insure against loss of the in-gun mag.

 

[aaaaa]

Magazines most certainly can be unintentionally ejected from one’s pistol. A reason that I switched duty pistols, in 1993, was because my SIG P220’s magazine had been partially released, three or four times, even though this was the original-pattern P220, with the heel-clip-type magazine release. The mags did not drop free, as some tension is maintained. In each of my personal cases, the mag release had snagged the seat back fabric in patrol cars. A colleague experienced a similar partial release, with his P220, when he found himself backed into a chain-link fence, during a struggle with a criminal.

My one Wilson Combat 1911 accidentally/incidentally ejected its mag about twice, as I remember it. I do not remember if the mag release button was significantly extended, but, it was not oversized. None of my other 1911 pistols have had this happen.

At least one police body-cam video showed a Houston PD officer unintentionally releasing his pistol’s magazine multiple times, during a gunfight. One time, he had to move into the open, to retrieve one of his dropped magazines, in order to have any ammo in his pistol. It looked like the officer’s large hands made his thumbs susceptible to touching the mag release, unintentionally.

So, yes, a significant reason to have at least one spare mag, is to insure against loss of the in-gun mag.

Would be nice if the gun companies made the mag release less easy to trip accidentally. I like where the release is on the Beretta Tomcat as it is away from where my thumb might hit it. Heel release is very good for retention, but not so good at quick reloads.

 

[JohnKSa]

Would be nice if the gun companies made the mag release less easy to trip accidentally.

Some do. A few have even included features that prevent mags from dropping out of the gun if the mag release is operated, requiring the magazines to be pulled free with the weak hand while the release is activated. The CZ-75 magazine brake is an example of that.

But in the U.S., people go crazy if a magazine doesn't instantly shoot from the gun at high speed when the release is pressed, and complain if the magazine release isn't directly under the thumb and easily depressed while the gun is in a shooting grip. At least the typical gun writer does. The result is that people will take a pistol like the Glock, that intentionally places the mag release where it's unlikely to be operated/difficult to operate with the gun in a normal shooting grip and put on an oversized or extended release to defeat that design feature.

I guess they figure that gaining a fraction of a second during a reload (that isn't even that likely to happen in a self-defense encounter) is more important than insuring that there is a magazine in the gun when it is needed and that it stays in the gun until the user wants it to come out.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I had many instances mag fallout out of the gun before I started carrying HKs. The worst had to be my Colt Commander in ,38 Super. It was a fantastic range gun but the oversized mag release would be activated every time I sat down. Many times I got out of the car to have my mag land on my foot. But the HK lever on the trigger guard has never left me with my mag on the ground.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...in the U.S., people go crazy if a magazine doesn't instantly shoot from the gun at high speed when the release is pressed...

Which s the current prevailing doctrine is handgun SD training courses. In an emergency (slide-lock) reload, your weak hand with the new magazine crosses the empty mag as it is falling out of the gun. The gun is without a mag for less than a second or so. In a tactical reload, where you retain posession of the mag, the old mag drops into your weak hand and you immediately insert the new mag. (I know yo all know this, just pointing out the obvious.)

...and complain if the magazine release isn't directly under the thumb and easily depressed while the gun is in a shooting grip.

Which is funny as I have yet to handle a semi auto pistol where I didn't have to break my shooting grip to hit the mag release. Don't even think about reloading a revolver without breaking your grip.

 

[luzyfuerza]

The worst had to be my Colt Commander in ,38 Super. It was a fantastic range gun but the oversized mag release would be activated every time I sat down. Many times I got out of the car to have my mag land on my foot.

I think of this as a holster rather than a gun problem.

For me, an acceptable EDC/street holster must cover and protect the mag release mechanism. This protects the mag in a holstered gun from being released by seat belt buckles and rolling around on the ground. And myriad other stuff.

Of course, this is in addition to holding the gun securely, preventing trigger activation, and allowing for one-handed reholstering.

ETA: I would never consider a gun with a heel-type mag release for street use.

 

[luzyfuerza]

In an emergency (slide-lock) reload, your weak hand with the new magazine crosses the empty mag as it is falling out of the gun.

This is the standard procedure for drop-free mags.

But as pointed out above, not every mag is drop-free.

For mags that aren't, train to use the back edge of the fresh mag to hook the front of the mag that's being removed to force it down out of the mag well. This is a subtle tweak to the basic procedure, but worth knowing and practicing.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Sheesh...if I carried everything that all the various people ("experts" and otherwise) suggested, I'd soon end up in full Marine kit. I was in the Navy on submarines back in the day. Full kit for me was bringing my seabag on or off ship between deployments.

"Two is one, and one is none."
"Always carry at least one spare magazine."
"You should have at least 15 rounds plus reload."
"Always carry a tactical knife."
"Red dot/laser."
"Mounted flashlight."
"Pocket flashlight."
"C or D cell Maglite."
"Kubaton."
"Pepper/CS spray."

And this doesn't include people who suggest body armor and other equipment.

I'm approaching my 60s and I've come to value space and minimalism. A year or so ago, I noticed my wallet started giving me problems with pain in my left hip/leg a bit. I seriously thinned it out, which helped a lot, and eventually moved it from my left rear pocket to my right front. No hip or leg pains any more.

My cell phone goes in my left front pocket. Pocket change, which used to occupy that spot, now goes into my right front and is emptied out first opportunity.

I carry my keys and my ceramic folding knife in my right front pocket with my wallet.

My pistol is strong side IWB (about 4 O'clock position) and my spare magazine is left side belt.

That's it. I don't have the time, patience, or desire to load myself down with a ton of other gear just to satisfy other people's opinions or "what if" scenarios.

Some of ya'll need an internvention. I just realized...I don't have any problems.

Indeed. But if it floats their boat, more power to them.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...train to use the back edge of the fresh mag to hook the front of the mag that's being removed to force it down out of the mag well...

Or I could only own and carry guns with drop free mags and not have to fiddle with an empty mag while I'm being shot at, stabbed, beaten, etc.