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Where is all of the .223

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by glockman19, Apr 28, 2007.

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  1. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    I'm in the market for 1,000 rounds of .223. Would like Federal NATO stamped 55 grain ammo and can't find any. Midway-OUT, Natchez, OUT, Ammoman, OUT. I can't even fins any Remington UMC.

    A good reason to get into reloading. I've been saving my .45 & 308 brass this may make me save .223 too.
     
  2. Jackal

    Jackal Member

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    Easy answer, it's in Iraq.
     
  3. coinshooter

    coinshooter Member

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    I only found 11 boxes of remington 55gr at walmart for 6.64 a box Thrusday thats all they had
     
  4. kcmarine

    kcmarine Member

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    You might want to look at Cabela's. I don't know the prices, but it is once- fired reloaded bulk ammo. And it's available. Hope that helps.
     
  5. Mike U.

    Mike U. Member

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    Where is all the .223? Three words for ya:

    Iraq and Afghanistan
     
  6. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    Just another reason to bring our troops home and make sure that they bring the ammo supplies with them. Although as long as theyre over there they need all the ammo they can get, so I'm more than willing to give up my share, until the war is over.
     
  7. IMtheNRA

    IMtheNRA Member

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    How much ammo is the military using there? There are major manufacturers here and abroad. We used to get great deals on quality imported ammo such as IMI and others. Now we're down to Russian steel-cased 5.56

    Could the US military require THAT much ammo? :what:
     
  8. repo

    repo Member

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    I recall reading that over 250,000 rounds are fired for every insurgant that is killed over there.
     
  9. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Well standard troop load out is six mags in web gear plus one in the rifle, or 210 rounds. Then you have to factor in all the ammo needed for resupply of those troops, and minimum reserves on bases/camps. Next add in the folks carrying an M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) with its box holding a large belt on the gun, plus a few spare belts. You'll need to add in SAWs mounted on vehicles too, with their larger boxes and more spare belts. Factor in the resupply and reserve ammo for all those SAWs. Factor in ammo used for qualification firing before deployment, and remember that even USAF support personnel are required to qualify before deployment. Factor in all the brass & primers used to make the blanks fired in mandatory pre-deployment exercises as well. It really adds up.
     
  10. DMK

    DMK Member

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    Don't count on that happening.
     
  11. cbsbyte

    cbsbyte Member

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    The lack of .223 has nothing to do with the military or the war effort. First the military does not use commercial .223, they use 5.56 which is similar but uses a thicker case than commercial brass. Second the military has its own standard type of 62 and 77 grain rounds, and does not use 55 grain bullets. Third, and most importantly the military has its own ammo factory, and international military suppliers to depend on during conflicts. The military is not draining the supply of .223. My guess is that the lack of ammo has more to do with demand than supply.
     
  12. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    cbsbyte, the ammo I like and am looking for is lake city 5.56
     
  13. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Except that ATK manages both the Lake City and Radford Army Ammunition Plants. ATK is a mega corp. which owns Federal, Fusion, Blazer, CCI, and Speer ammo; Speer bullets; and Alliant powders. That's a ton of normally civilian ammo & components makers whose production capability can be directed to meet US Forces needs. I stand by my correlation.

    http://www.atk.com/Customer_Solutions_AmmunitionSystems/cs_as_default.asp
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2007
  14. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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  15. TroubledOne

    TroubledOne Member

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    cbsbyte
    On your third point; I beg to differ, Federal Cartridge makes Military 5.56 rounds, But I guess working there doesn't amount to much. Federal can't make enough of it, even working 24/7.
     
  16. goon

    goon Member

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    I have bought ammo in Federal boxes that had LC nato headstamps. So at the very least, you are tallking about brass that is being drawn away from civilian production. Primers and powder too. And IIRC, there are still some NG units using old A1's that require 55 grain ammo.
     
  17. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    I think the military demand has something to do with it as well, but I also happen to think your right about civilian demand. AR-15 sales seem to be at an all-time high right now, and it makes sense that people want to shoot their EBR's!
     
  18. distra

    distra Member

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    No shortage here, I just load up what I want. :D .223 once fired brass is readily available from various sources as are bullets. I have about 3k cases and 4k bullets. Reloading is the way to go especially if you shoot a lot.
     
  19. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I don't understand why the military would still be needing 223 ammo at this time.

    They have been buying the whole time we have been in Iraq, which is like 4 years now, and I don't see where they have been involved in any protracted battles that would have used up a lot of ammo over there? What are they doing with all that ammo?
     
  20. cbsbyte

    cbsbyte Member

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    Well I have seen plenty of Federal 55grain 5.56 in the New England area. LC might be harder to find but should not be impossible.

    I still don't believe that the military is causing a shortage of .223 ammo since they don't use it, and their are plenty of manufactures of the .223 that don't supply the military with ammo. Also Military 5.56 uses different components than civilian .223. In addition, the military hoards ammo for war, and if more is needed, which I highly doubt they just make more of it at their plants or buy from international Manufactures such as IMI. It most likely civilian, and maybe LEO demand is out reaching the current supply.

    Remember civilian .223 is not the same as 5.56 NATO. They use different cases, primers, and bullets.
     
  21. kennyboy

    kennyboy Member

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    The military has it. All the rest of it is in limited amounts at stores and being fired from the thousands of AR-15s owned by the American population.
     
  22. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    The vast majority of ammo is used in training troops for combat, not actual combat. If you think about it a 3-day training class for civilians or law enforcement can easily have a round count of 2,000. Now imagine how much ammo you need to run a platoon through a MOUT package.

    For the special operations guys, ammo is a major consumption item. A SEAL team on workup for a six-month deployment might fire 20,000 rounds per man. These men need training to stay sharp.

    No; but a factory that is making one million rounds of 5.56 can't make one million rounds of .223 for the civilian market. Part of the contract for ATK allows them to use the military plant to produce ammo for commercial sales if there is no military need.

    You have to replenish the ammunition in your hoard or it doesn't help you much if a larger war breaks out. Do you think the military just hopes nothing else happens? As for buying from other manufacturers, they absolutely do that. Don't you remember the outcry over the military buying ammo from Israel for the war? The military had to promise this would only be used in training. You have to remember, the military has a single ammo plant. This is compared to 17-18 plants during WWII. The military relies heavily on the civilian market for surge capacity. You can google several DoD reports on that exact issue if you like.
     
  23. Fulcrum of Evil

    Fulcrum of Evil Member

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    From what I recall, that's down 75% from Vietnam.
     
  24. Glockfan.45

    Glockfan.45 member

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    Yes but their demand has not increased. No unit to my knowledege is deploying with A1s. Air Force security may be using a few but that would be it. All the A1s are pretty much living on racks back at their armories. Winchester, and Federal make ammo for Uncle Sam. Those two civilian manufactures shifting their focus to military contracts would put strain on the few remaining civilian manfacturers. If your really want to point the finger at somebody go scream at the ****heads over on ARF that hoard more ammo than they will ever shoot over their lifetimes. I am not kiding you some of those guys have over 5k rounds......loaded in mags, and another 20k loose. They are also the reason you can't find a stripped AR lower. I swear the "chicken littles" running around screaming "the ban is comming, the ban is comming" are really starting to tick me off :fire: .
     
  25. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    I just keep wonderng -- even after a few years, why can't manufacturers ramp up ammo supply to catch up w/ demand??? Easy...$$$$ ;) Notice how demand is up, supply is down & prices are up???
     
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