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Where is the Pistol Powder?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Triumph, Mar 7, 2013.

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  1. bds
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    bds Member

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    Lj1941, I would gladly recommend Red Dot/Promo for 9mm/45ACP, but it's the availability that's the problem for OP (especially if needing to order 8 lbs to justify hazmat charge).

    Promo using Red Dot load data has worked very well for me in 9mm/45ACP with lead, plated and jacketed bullets in producing mid-to-high range target loads.

    8 lbs of Green Dot from Cabela's is another viable option too which is in stock.
     
  2. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I prefer Unique but I jumped on a pound of titegroup when I saw it.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    bds - Great info - I've been reading. Some of the Enos forum stuff is pretty above my head right now.

    I'm attracted to the WST, WSF, Green Dot & Clays - just don't want to make an 8 pound mistake.
     
  4. bds
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    bds Member

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    I hear ya ... too bad we can't get you some W231/HP-38. These are from powder manufacturers' product pages. As you can see (with the exception of W231/HP-38), most are shotgun powders with secondary use as pistol powders due to their faster burn rate and cleaner burning characteristics even at lower target pressures with the exception of WSF (slower burn rate powders require high-to-near max powder charges for more complete burn to produce consistent chamber pressures that results in accuracy).

    If you have to commit to a total of 8 lb purchase (remember, you can buy 2 4 lbs or 8 1 lbs or a mix of 1/4/8), you can't go wrong with W231/HP-38/Zip for 9mm/45ACP and Clays/WST/Green Dot/American Select/WSF second for me. If I had to choose powders that came close to W231/HP-38, American Select/Green Dot. I would choose WSF, if you were considering loading full-power loads along with lighter target loads. Just keep in mind that there are current 9mm/45ACP load data for Clays/American Select/WSF. ;)

    W231/HP-38 - One of the most popular reload propellants, 231 is a pistol powder ideally suited to the 38 special, 45 Auto, and 9mm standard loads. Consistency, clean burning, low flash, and a broad range of applications make this powder a choice for any pistol cartridge reloader.



    Clays - It is the cleanest burning , most consistent 12 ga. 7/8., 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. powder available today, the preferred choice of competitive target shooters.. The superb burning characteristics of this powder produce soft, smooth recoil and excellent patterns. These features transfer directly to handgun applications where target shooting is the main goal. 45 ACP and 38 Special are only two of the cartridges where CLAYS gunpowder provides "tack driving" target accuracy with flawless functioning.

    WST - The choice for 12 gauge AA duplicate handloads and standard velocity handgun loads. Ideal for use in 45 Auto match applications. Consistent, clean, low flash and smoke are benefits to the shooter.

    WSF - Super-Field propellant is the propellant of choice for Winchester 20 gauge AA Target loads. WSF is an ideal choice to maximize velocities in 12 gauge 1-1/8 ounce and 1-1/4 ounce loads. Super-Field also performs well in 38 Super, 9mm, and 40 S&W pistol loads. Excellent propellant for action pistol applications.

    Green Dot - Best long range clay target powder creating tight and uniform patterns.

    Principal Purpose: Handicap trap loads
    Secondary Uses: 20 and 28 ga. target loads

    American Select - Our newest "ultra clean" burning premium powder makes a versatile target load and superior 1-oz. load for improving clay target scores. Great for Cowboy Action handgun loading, too!

    Principal Purpose: 12 ga. target loads
    Secondary Uses: Cowboy action handgun loads
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  5. bds
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    bds Member

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    We have more contenders!

    Gamaliel has Red Dot in 4/8 lbs and Promo in 8 lb containers! - http://www.gamaliel.com/prodcat/alliant-powder.asp?page=3

    They are bulkier flake powders but will certainly do well to produce mid-range target loads.

    Gamaliel has other suitable 9mm/45ACP powders in 1/4/8 lb containers and perhaps you can mix them up to try them all out?

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    Big Help - thanks much - I'll let you know what I do in awhile when I have time to digest all your great info.
     
  7. bds
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    bds Member

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    Knowing what I know, if I were you, I would order the Promo (only comes in 8 lbs) at $99. It is a larger flake powder that meters with .2-.3 gr variance in some powder measures but will still produce accurate enough mild recoil target loads.

    I use 3.8 - 4.0 gr for 125 gr 9mm jacketed/plated/lead bullets and 4.0 gr for 200 gr 45ACP SWC lead bullets.

    Next would be American Select/Clays/WST/Green Dot.

    Usually, it is ideal for you to try several 1 lb sample of each powder to see which powder works better for your pistols/bullets but unfortunately that option is not really feasible.
     
  8. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    ^ Yep, $99 plus thirty or so will put a lot of lead downrange and has for a very long time.. Red-Dot/Promo will about do it all. Add some/whatever other powders you can or care to and of course primers (if possible) to help defray hazmat/and to a lesser degree, shipping.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    Bds-

    Certaindeaf
    So if I reading right. Promo is the powder & I need to use the load data for Red-Dot?
     
  10. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    True, they are one and the same save the Promo doesn't have red dots. Very good powder for.. well, a lot of things. It's a target/mid-range powder for a great many handgun cartridges and more. I just use Red-Dot because I like the red dots.. kinda a safety thing. About ten bucks more per eight if you can find it.
     
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    Sounds good -

    I can start with Promo/Red Dot & also add one of the others to the order.

    Thanks very much for the help.

    One question - I am assuming if w231/HP38 was available you would use that instead?
     
  12. GT1

    GT1 Member

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    Most of us probably would, it is a crowd favorite. It loads well in anything from .380 to 45, and even does okay in light load .357 mag. It isn't touchy/spikey. It plays well in everything, that's why it is so popular.

    It is very hard to find right now in these times of everyone scrambling to buy up all they can. It can be found, but you might have to wait for weeks, and it would be mostly luck that you click on a site that has it because it sells out in an hour, or less.
     
  13. bds
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    bds Member

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    Yes.

    W231/HP-38 (same exact powder and many claim Ramshot Zip to be very close) is not a perfect powder like Unique (can load from target to full power loads) but where it shines is producing lower pressure mid-to-high load data range target loads that are very accurate.

    For higher pressure KaBoom prone 40S&W, I recommend W231/HP-38 to new reloaders as with 180 gr bullet, it can produce accurate target loads even at start-to-mid range load data with much lower chamber pressures.

    But if you can't find W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot can fill the spot for practice/plinking duty as economical 3.8-4.0 gr charges can work with 125 gr 9mm, 180 gr 40S&W and 200 gr 45ACP. How much do I like Promo? I am on my second 8 lb jug and have another under the bench.
     
  14. Fishslayer

    Fishslayer Member

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    Shhhhh... ixnay on the reenotsay... it's already hard enough to get ahold of. ;)
     
  15. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    I want to interject that promo and red dot ARE NOT THE SAME. they have the same burn rate and you use the same load data BY WEIGHT, be careful if you're using a volumetric dispenser (ex: lee auto disk) because youwil end up with more promo in a case than you would red dot and could go kaboom. Fingers don't usually grow back.
     
  16. bds
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    bds Member

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    Yes, good point. The link I provided to Alliant's Promo page states to use by WEIGHT and I always reference the Red Dot load data by WEIGHT and verify the powder charges with the Ohaus 10-10 scale.
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Member

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    I agree fingers don't grow back. Thanks very much for making sure I keep mine. I will be sure not to use in the Dillon 550B powder dispenser

    I won't be getting the Dillon for 5 or 6 weeks and will use the RCBS 10-10 to weigh the loads.

    8lb. of Promo is on the way.

    Tonight I figured out what I am missing. I do not have a powder dispenser, other than the inline powder dispensers I have coming with the Dillon 550B.

    Maybe I'll make my partner (my Aunt) spring for a RCBS Chargemaster Combo.
     
  18. bds
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    bds Member

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  19. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    you can probably use it in any dispenser, you will just need to adjust it to drop the appropriate weight. I don't know how the dillion works, but with an autodisk, just keep trying the smaller holes in the disks and weigh the charges until you get the appropriate weight.
     
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