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Which .22 round for home defense?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by vicdotcom, Jul 18, 2008.

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  1. vicdotcom

    vicdotcom Member

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    OK I know that the .22 isn't that effective as a home defense round. But in our action plan, I will be using the 12 gauge and my wife will be using the .22 lever action rifle as a backup. It is what she is familiar with and comfortable shooting.

    My question is what round would you choose? The gun runs CCI mini-mag ammo the best so our choices are down to:

    A) .22 copper plated hollow point at 1260 fps with 36 grain bullet

    or

    B) .22 copper plated round nose at 1235 fps with a 40 grain bullet.

    Or would either have the same effectiveness/ineffectiveness.

    Thanks in advance for any input!
    Vic
     
  2. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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  3. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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  4. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    All else equal, I would choose the non-hollowpoint option. I want as much penetration as possible with a .22 LR. Aguila Super Maximums do well out of a pistol. In a 2x4 at a range of one foot, they penetrated further than Velocitors or Stingers
     
  5. doc2rn

    doc2rn Member

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    I would go with a heavier bullet to produce a bigger wound channel, before looking at speed although a .22 bouncing around will do serious damage internally.
     
  6. Timthinker

    Timthinker Member

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    With a .22 long rifle cartridge, penetration is a paramount concern along with reliability. In a .22 carbine/rifle, I would favor the hollow point round since a longer barrel offers a greater possibility of both penetration and expansion. The one point I can not overemphasize is to make certain the person using a lever action can refire as rapidly as possible. This might prove necessary when facing a determined opponent.


    Timthinker
     
  7. EricShelton

    EricShelton Member

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    I don't know about those particular bullets, but if it's a lever action, I have trouble imagining running one type of ammo better than another. That being said, I can knock down coyotes with CCI Velocitor pretty easily. Copper, hollow point, 40 grains, and 1435 FPS. It's what I carry in my NAA revolver.

    Concerns about HP vs round nose... A deep, but tiny wound channel will have a greater probability of closing back up. Go with HP for maximum tissue damage, and if they don't open they'll act as roundnose anyway.

    Just my 2 cents...
     
  8. Rifleman 173

    Rifleman 173 Member

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    Yep. Go with the heavier bullet. Too bad it's not a Ruger 10-22 with a high capacity magazine and red dot scope... Now that would be something to fear. Sort of like a mini-machinegun with lots of accuracy.
     
  9. Aaryq

    Aaryq Member

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    Take the wife out and buy her something a little bigger. Some kind of 9mm carbine like a KelTec or HiPoint or even (if the budget allows) some kind of AR. It will be a lot more effective than a .22LR.
     
  10. crushbup

    crushbup Member

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    How would it bounce around? If it wouldn't be able to penetrate out the back, it definitely wouldn't be able to keep moving around through the body.
     
  11. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    In a rifle, I'd use Velocitors and, in a handgun, Aguila Super Maximums.
     
  12. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I'd use premium HV solids, because they are most likely to function reliably & smoothly in any rifle. They will also give the best penetration.

    100% Reliability & deep penetration are most important, in that order, with a .22RF used for SD.

    rcmodel
     
  13. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    There is no way a perpetrator is going to take thirty rounds of this. Not a primary but a very good backup. There was a case where an eighty some odd year old lady put one 22 round into a guy who broke into her house. He couldn't get out of the house fast enough. It took 6 count em 6 hours of surgery to repair this low life. She shot him with a pistol. Her husband told me.
    .22s are excellent for home defence as long as they are reliable and IMHO semi.

    Subsonic .22s at 726 FPS will penetrate solid wood an inch deep. Load this thing with stingers and the perp is in real trouble.

    IMAGE_317.jpg
     
  14. Auburn1992

    Auburn1992 Member

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    Maybe, if you decide to buy something for home defense other than a .22, you could get a beretta cx4 storm in 9mm, 40, or 45?
     
  15. vicdotcom

    vicdotcom Member

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    Thanks everyone for the input so far! I appreciate it. Ill try to address some ideas floating arround since you took the time to reply. If I missed you its not purposely but I thank you also for contributing!

    Sarduy:
    We have seen those rounds at the store also. After reading some other input we might shoot some of the Velocitor rounds next time out. But the Stinger rounds actually use a slightly longer case than the average 22LR.

    Timthinker:
    This is the direction that I am leaning towards with the HP bullets. The expansion is important, I just want to make sure that it would have enough energy behind it to penetrate bone and muscle at about 10 yards. But we both work on rapid quick aim shooting at the range. The Marling 39 that we have can shoot them out really quick and right on target again. But the main concern IS reliability. Thats why it was down to these two rounds. But I do want to try the CCI Velocitor ones also.

    EricShelton:
    Well the marlin 39a we shoot will eat any 22 lr, l, or s round we put into it. Its the extraction that sometimes causes a problem for us at the range. So far Winchester rounds give us extration problems in about 4x per 50 rounds. The Remington rounds have problem extracting about 2x per 50. And Federal rounds about 1x per 50. But out of all the CCI mini-mags we shot, there was never one extraction problem or misfire. That is why I want my wife to use this round in our backup home defense gun. Once the round fails to extract, a new round can not be feed until it is take out.

    Aaryq:
    Eventually, that is in the works. We are looking at getting a Marlin 1894 in .357 mag/.38spl She REALLY hates the AR platform. So that is out of the question. But she enjoys shooting lever action and is good at it. So I would rather her use a rifle she is completely comfortable with. That is why we want to go with the Marlin 1894 eventually but that will be a while.

    We arent to concerned with SHTF scenario at this time. This is mainly for intruder in the house and we are taking cover in the safe room situation. I will still have the primary big gun Remington 870 in my hands. In our Action Plan she is still taking cover with the Marlin and our son.

    Aubrun1992:
    Well again, our Rem870 is the primary defense weapon. She does not like to train with it so that is out of the question for her. But I will be carrying that. The 22 is the second line of defense for her to carry behind cover. Also buying her a 9mm or 45mm is different than her using it and being proficient with it. If I buy it for her and she doenst know how (or is uncomfortable) to use it, its no good to any of us. Especially in a high stress situation.

    U.S.SFC RET
    I think a perp would crap himself looking at that also lol I like that setup a lot. Wifey hates semi's though but trains a lot with the lever action and enjoys shooting those. Personally I think the training is worth more than the semi auto. I think for her, its a reliability thing. And if she "feels" that a weapon is more reliable I would rather her use that weapon than something she isnt used to.

    Everyone else:
    Thanks again so much. Im still giving it some thought (maybe to much thought lol) But I was leaning towards the HP bullets and it seems that most here feel the same. I will try out the velocitor rounds in a few weeks also.

    Any other thoughts, keep them comming!
    Vic
     
  16. 66GTO

    66GTO Member

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    Vicdotcom,

    You are taking the right approach. If, God forbid, your wife had to use a weapon in a home invasion situation, the most important thing is that she is WILLING and ABLE to use a weapon against the bad guy. If she feels comfortable and capable with the Marlin .22, then that is the most important thing. If she could get off multiple rounds on target with the .22, that is more important instead of being afraid to fire a larger caliber or firing wildly with a larger caliber.

    I was going to recommend the Marlin 1894C (.357/.38) as a weapon for her transition to, but you already have the same idea. I have a 1894C, and with .38 Special ammo it shoots like a .22. When the timing is right, buy her one and she will take to it like a duck to water.

    As far as a bad guy targeting the person with a .22 first, I can guarantee you that the bad guy will not calmly read the fine print on the barrel or examine the size of the bore with a micrometer. His first thought will be, "GUN POINTED AT ME!" He may, however, see that it is a woman and assume she is not willing to pull the trigger. THAT is why it is important for Vicdotcom's wife to feel comfortable using the weapon.
     
  17. FSJeeper

    FSJeeper Member

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    Not trying to be rude, but you might want to think about a shotgun for HD.

    Buy her a 20 or .410 gauge and get her used to shooting it.

    The shotgun is the number one HD weapon and should be the first weapon purchased for HD.
     
  18. vicdotcom

    vicdotcom Member

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    66GTO:
    This is the way we both see it also :) In fact we practice our action plan at least once a month with different variations thrown in just in case.

    FS Jeeper:
    Funny you mention that, That is actually what we decided to do once we have the funds for the shotgun and ammo for training. There is a thread in the shotgun forum about it. The .22 question is just in case something happens between now and the time she is comfortable with the 870 20gauge.
     
  19. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    In a .22 I would avoid hollowpoints. I know others have advised differently but I do not agree. If the bullet has to penetrate any clothing at all you will get very little penetration. The amount of expansion from a .22 hollowpoint is pretty neglible anyway. I would suggest the hottest solid I could find.

    To answer crushbup's question, a .22 solid will penetrate a lot. Quite often more than 9mm but often in an erratic path. The light .22 bullets will sometimes deflect off bone instead of breaking it and follow the bone to strange places inside of the body. I have read of people being shot in the forehead with .22's and have the bullet travel just below the skin and exit from the back of the neck without ever penetrating the skull.
     
  20. crushbup

    crushbup Member

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    Oh, okay. I was thinking he meant it would go through the target, hit the back, bounce back, then bounce again, sort of like a trampoline.
     
  21. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    My thought with regard to penetration is "how much do you need"... the heart is maybe a inch or two behind the ribs. The lungs are immediately there when you penetrate the ribs. You don't need 24" of penetration on a human.

    I lean toward CCI high veloctiy solids as my choice. They are probably as reliabe as you can expect with a 22rf.

    Of the hollow points if that is your preference, I'd go with velocitors.

    The 22LR will be fine. I'd be comfortable with it as a primary defensive gun; especially in a rifle. I would practice a bit trying to hit by pointing the rifle versus carefully aiming. I used to do that with a 22 semi and became quite good hitting things like chistmas light bubs and so forth. Fun too!!

    I think you would be better equipped with a semi-auto 22. I would lean toward the Ruger 10/22 if it is reliable with open sights. Very quick pointing little rifle especially when your target area is about 6" in diamter and less than 10 yds away.
     
  22. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    I would not use the Stingers. I made the mistake of using a very accurate .22 loaded with Stingers to shoot a yellow lab that was in the pasture chasing my cows, it took seven rounds at less then 25 yards to kill that dog and it was an ugly sight. Stingers are fast and the hollow point opens up explosively, not good penetration.

    I think you would be way better off with the 40 grain solids or the regaler hollow points. Just my opinion.
     
  23. plainsbilly

    plainsbilly Member

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    if she likes the lever action perhaps a winchester 9410 .410 shotgun loaded with 00buck is really impressive considering how little recoil
     
  24. DavidBAz

    DavidBAz Member

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    With a .22? Oh, very much so. I'm an RN and have seen AMAZING things involving gun shot wounds.
    .22's can be lethal. Especially to the brain.
    I've seen through and through head shots with .38's leaving the patient alive.
    And .22 head shots that did not. They were not through and throughs, instead acted much like your trampoline example.
     
  25. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    have you tried the cci SGB rounds yet? they are a split round, that after penetration of about 1 or 2 inches, breaks off into three big chunks...or better yet the Aguila sniper subsonic rounds, a 60 grain solid lead chunk of metal. If these do not work, the use the heaviest solid that is most reliable through the gun, forgo expansion, where a 22 is concerned, what you want is a wound track, with penetration. and if it will bounce off of bones and stuff once inside, all the better.
    And it has been proven many times in the past, that this is what happens with a solid chunk of 22, that does not break apart.
     
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