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Which .22 takedown rifle for bugout bag/survival kit?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by perpster, Jan 30, 2006.

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  1. perpster

    perpster Member

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    I'd like to stow a compact .22 rifle in my BOB/survival kit/backpack. I'm looking for new (not used) and seem to have focused on the Henry Survival Rifle (aka AR-7) and Marlin 70 (aka Papoose). Which would you choose and why, and am I missing any others that I should seriously consider?

    I'd like to keep the price around $200 or less. Key factors are weight; the smaller it stores the better; and reliability. I think the action should be semi-auto, not bolt or lever. Other than occassional plinking, this rifle will sit stowed in the BOB/survival kit/backpack. I'll eventually get a "regular" .22 for general purpose use.

    The AR-7's receiver, barrel and 1 of the 2 mags stow in it's handle which seems pretty compact and seems to offer good protection from getting knocked around/damaged (and seems pretty cool, too). Weighs less than 3 pounds. Would seem to be the perfect choice. Is it too good to be true?
     
  2. MAURICE

    MAURICE Member

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    I have not shot the papoose, although it does look like it would be a good rifle, if they are anything like other Marlins. Bulkier than the AR-7. The papoose does come with a floating case. Not sure that the AR-7 will float if it takes a swim in the drink.
    The AR-7 is a good little gun. The stock is larger (of course) than most rifles, but this is the price you pay for the overall compactness of the gun itself.
    A friend of mine has one that he loves. The only problem with it is it does not like some of the standard velocity .22 ammo. Simple solution, really. About all he shoots out of his .22s are CCI Stingers, so it is not really an issue to him.

    Both rifles are/should be 200 bucks or less. Gunbroker has both right now for right at two bills, look around locally, you may find them for less.

    Edited to add: Ok, after a little bit of research, it looks like the AR-7 will float.
     
  3. Sharpdogs

    Sharpdogs Member

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    I had a lot of problems with my AR-7. Especially in terms of ammo regardless of what I used. Accuracy was okay at best. I have heard very good things about the Marlin Papoose. One of these days I will pick one up. I sold the AR-7 a long time ago and I have no regrets about getting rid of it.
     
  4. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    The ''Papoose'' is maybe not so easily ''stowable'' - because parts do not all go inside a common container like the AR. That said - it would not be too hard to pack away with a little planning in advance - possibly even a custom canvas pouch deal which would be smaller than the zipper baggy it comes in.

    I'd certainly vote for it re a shooter. Mine has a cheapie red dot on it and is just perfect for squirrel category work and plinking. Only thing that irks me is - it comes with 7 round mags!! I mean 7 - and yet you can get tens - I did pick one up at a gunshow. That aside - I'd recommend it.


    [​IMG]
     
  5. azredhawk44

    azredhawk44 Member

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    Neither.

    If you are going to choose to plan ahead and have a long-gun in a bug-out kit (and therefore in your hands as a primary weapon if you need that kit) why would you choose a .22?

    For small game, its fine I guess. But your long gun is your prime weapon. If you want something cheap, small and reasonably accurate, I could see a hi-point or keltec carbine in 9mm. The keltec SUB2000 folds in half and would fit in a backpack easily. Automatic, too. Uses the same mags as several different pistol makers.

    But, it is 9mm rather than .22, giving a lot more power to the target.

    Better yet is a lightweight bolt action or lever action carbine in a real rifle caliber. .30-30, .270, .308, something like that. Something with light projectile weight but high speed (120-130gr at about 2500-3000fps), so its ammo is light enough to carry a hundred rounds or so.

    If you want a bunny-killer, get a cheap .22 pistol that is decently accurate like a Taurus 94 or Ruger mark II.

    But don't set yourself up for failure and have your prime long gun if SHTF be a .22LR. Would that .22 get you out of New Orleans? Will it stop a gang of 3-4 guys who are determined to take your survival equipment? Will it kill the polar bears that just escaped from the San Diego Zoo and are now 100 yards down the street moving towards you after the freak pacific hurricane practically leveled the city?

    JMHO.
     
  6. Hoshua1

    Hoshua1 Member

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    U CALL IT! BEST VERSATILE SURVIVAL RIFLE

    You all have good points. I'm on the fence for sure. I've toyed with buying either of those little 22's months ago but the reviews were too mixed including older models of the AR7 that jammed frequently. So Bunny Bear Killer here has a good point that your primary weapon should be a multitasker. Much like kitchen appliances and tools and in the intersts of cost and efficiency(which implies usability, accesability, its singular effectiveness as applied in various circumstances)you want a champ. I'd be weary of investing in a parachute that might not open 25% of the time. 9mm though? the pic of this papoose sure sells it. The barrel detatches for compactness I guess? Are the Marlin 60's more accurate? Will any of them shoot a souped up 22 bullet? Will the Papoose work with the 60's 10 rnd mag? Lets get right to it.

    >$230= compact, synthetic?, bolt or auto, .243 .270 Any Brand
    Somebody call it. Best versatile survival rifle.
     
  7. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    60's are tube fed.

    One word. Browning.

    If you want a single-shot rabbit hunter, get a Stevens Favorite takedown. Small, light, not much to break.

    I have yet to hear a good thing about an AR7.
     
  8. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    having owned both, I'd vote for the papoose. I just felt it was a better gun, although it did lack the ability to stow away as easily as the ar-7. My brother is currently teaching his kids how to shoot on the papoose . . .its a good little gun and is rare enough at the range to be a conversation starter.
     
  9. azredhawk44

    azredhawk44 Member

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    Centerfire Rifles won't be found under $200 unless they are used.

    The lone exception to this rule is the Rossi single-shot series, but they aren't something I want to depend on for defense or escape from a bad situation.

    Guns I think you could find for under $200 are:
    Mosin Nagant 7.62x54 Russian
    SKS 7.62x39
    Used Winchester 94 .30-30
    Used Saiga AK knockoff in .223 or .308

    Honestly between the choices I thought up here, I would go for the Win94 or SKS.

    Seems to me a kit survival gun should be something you can take out and clean once a year, but otherwise just leave in a closet or trunk and know it will work just fine when you need it.

    The Win94 is the lightest of the group I listed above. I would probably choose it. Actually, I have.:)
     
  10. SpookyPistolero

    SpookyPistolero Member

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    One of the first rifles I ever had as a kid was an AR-7. I must have been lucky because mine was quite reliable. That one was sold by my dad, not sure why, and I got another one a few years ago. It was also very reliable. I went so far as to get the scope mount and a different kind of tube stock for this new one. It's been just as accurate as the first one was. These may be anecdotal and not representative of general quality, but they're my experiences.

    For what it's worth, they do float when tucked away into the stock. Handy little suckers. I have no idea what your bug out/shtf plans are, but I too would give serious thought to what your requirements/needs are going to be and if the weight and bulk of a .22 rifle are worth it compared to a full-caliber rifle. Location, local types of game, potential to actually hunt that game, likelihood of meeting a foe, equipment that a significant other/buddy will already have, etc. (not to imply that you haven't already kept these things in mind..)

    They say 1/3 the fun of a backpacking trip is in the planning. I agree and would extend that truth to planning for these types of 'uh-oh' situations. I'd spend a lot of time diagnosing my likely needs, just to be sure I'd be fully suited by a .22.
     
  11. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I wouldn't get either; I'd find a used Nylon 66. You can depend on the accuracy and the durability. If it doesn't fit in your BOB, then get a bigger bag.
     
  12. cookekdjr

    cookekdjr Member

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    cz 452 scout. Its not breakdown but it is small. Insanely accurate, and can digest any .22 cartridge you can stuff into it short of .22 mag.
    Even has a single-shot adapter that would allow you to feed it .22 shorts.
    I would not choose a stevens favorite. It only seems like a good idea. Many folks at rimfirecentral.com have had pronlems with theirs. It is not the same design as the earlier favorite models.
    Basically, I recommend any simple, well-made bolt-gun that can operate as a single-shot. Simple. Reliable. Accurate. Effective.
     
  13. Hoshua1

    Hoshua1 Member

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    you're right

    60's are tube fed. I meant will the papoose use the mag from the 795? I'll look up some of these recs.
     
  14. NewShooter

    NewShooter Member

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    If you want to stay under $200 and wanted more firepower, Hi-Point has a 9mm carbine for about $140. 16.5" bbl, 10shot mag and scope mount.
    Personally though I like those break down .22's.
     
  15. perpster

    perpster Member

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    Excellent Replies but...

    You have all made excellent points, so let me elaborate. This takedown .22 would NOT be a primary defensive weapon. I would have with me at least a .38 &/or .357 Magnum revolver &/or a 9mm s/a pistol (and lots of 9mm/.38 +P/.357 ammo, mags/speedloaders). Like I said in my original post, this .22 would mostly sit stowed in the pack except for occassional plinking (to make sure it works and that I'm used to it). In primary long guns I'd certainly have (conditions permitting) a .30-06 MBR.

    Sooooo, all that in mind, my original question still stands.

    PS: A Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is already on my shopping list, with mags that work in my 9mm s/a, as is a .38/.357 lever carbine.
     
  16. thatguy

    thatguy Member

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    A quality .22 pistol would be more compact and more accurate than the AR7.
     
  17. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Just put your Ruger Mark II or III in the bag and you're better off. So, it doesn't float? Want a light rifle, again get the Nylon 66 or customize a Ruger 10/22 with pistol grip or something that you like. I wouldn't want to have to depend on AR-7 for anything. Cute idea, but.... Want a game getter; go with a Contender with a couple different barrels and ammo.
     
  18. SpookyPistolero

    SpookyPistolero Member

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    I'm not sure that I'm decided either way on the issue, but I'd have to disagree that a good .22 pistol would be more accurate than the AR-7. I've owned a couple of ruger .22 pistols, but only a 22/45 currently. I consider it to be very accurate and a good example of that breed. The AR-7 fills a different niche than most .22 rifles, but it is still an accurate rifle. My point is that both are more than accurate enough to do the job, and at ranges where slight differences in accuracy matter, the pistol gets that much harder to make successful hits with, compared to a rifle.

    Though I consider myself a pistol shooter before a rifleman, I'd have to say it's a lot easier to be accurate with a rifle than with a pistol, especially when you're half starved and dinner is riding on a successful shot.

    Perpster, I'm pleased that you've already made plans for a primary defensive weapon. Since you've already got at least two other firearms besides this potential .22 rifle, weight will of course be at a premium. It's this point that makes me undecided as to whether or not a pistol would be suitable. A ruger with one of those custom lightweight uppers would be an awfully tempting offer, all things considered.

    Anyone know whether some low-power .38 specials out of a 16" barrel make a useable varmint round? I've only used .22s when small game hunting. If the .38s would suffice, it seems like the .357 levergun combined with your revolver would have most of the bases covered with just two instead of three firearms. But this last part is just uneducated spitballing.
     
  19. Ad Astra

    Ad Astra Member

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    I have the Charter Arms iteration of the AR-7.... and it goes places where no other rifle can, in terms of space limitations.

    Jams with the 7 rounds mags. All of them. Jams with a 15-rounder.

    Works absolutely flawlessly with a Ram-Line 25 round mag.

    Better than having a .22 pistol... I guess... and it will float.

    It's worth the space it takes up, I'll put it that way. Don't forget the .22 tracer ammo, shotshells & Stingers.
     
  20. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    Mine is a Marlin 39M, not $200 but the best take down 22lr I know
     
  21. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    It's pretty safe to write that the best two current-production takedown .22 rifles are these two:

    1. Browning SA-22, an actual John Browning design still in production:
    http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=022B&cat_id=021&type_id=001

    2. Marlin 39A, takedown lever action:
    http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/22Rifle/Golden39A.aspx

    Each will shoot any .22 round from shorts to LR's; the lever gun will shoot CB or similar low-power rounds. Actually, each will, but with CB's you generally need to manually cycle a semiauto.

    Neither is cheap, but neither is overpriced, either. They're both truly great firearms.

    Also, a Ruger 10/22 with a folding stock is a reliable, flexible, and cheap option.

    I have to agree with those who suggest a pistol, though, too. My 22/45 Gov't Target (6 7/8" slab bull barrel) groups a lot like my 10/22 offhand, especially with irons. And it's really tolerant of fouling as well as different kinds of ammo.
     
  22. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    I have the browning in stainless - bought new from a limited edition run which I believe is discontinued. Still a few around. I love it.

    Having said that, its hard to beat the stainless Papoose with the floating case at half the price of the browning.

    The marlin makes more sense as a truck gun . . . .

    I've also heard bad things about the henry et al ar7 - but no first hand experience.

    Again, you could get both for the price of the browning . . . .
     
  23. borrowedtime69

    borrowedtime69 Member

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    The Cheating Choice...

    i like to cheat when it comes to surival, i dont just want to carry a .22 rifle, i also like to have a shotgun. so i carry a Springfield M6 seen below:

    [​IMG]

    it shoots .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle out of the .22 upper barrel, and .410 shotgun shot or buckshot out of the lower. i keep it in this case that Springfield sells:

    [​IMG]

    they stopped making this gun back in April of 04, so they are getting rare on the market and prices are going up. they sell them in both black parkerized and stainless steel. i got the stainless to last long in bad conditions.

    I shoot CCI Mini-mag HP's out of it usually, but i like the fact that i can shoot any of the 3 .22 types of ammo out of it, so i can scavange whatever i happen to find.

    For the .410 barrel, i carry Wichester #6 shot 3" shells and Winchester either 3 or 5 pellet 000 Buckshot. you can take a small deer with the .410 buckshot, up close, in an emergency as well as use it for up close defense from cougar, black bear (wait till its in close) and two legged preditors.

    i did some mods to mine, some of the credit for some of the mods go to a VShrake, who wrote an article on it on the web. I took a dremel and undercut the front sight, causing a shadow and making it easier to see the front sight through the rear peep sight. i then painted the peep sight and the fron sight black for visibility. i also removed the crappy trigger guard on it. the trigger needs some getting used to, but when you figure it out, it works well.

    I added a sling swivle stud to the back stock and made a sling out of 1" tubular webbing. I took two folding knife sheaths that hang with the length of the sling and in one i put a Silvia brand match case/compass. in the other i put a Camillus military folding knife and a Mini-maglite. all this can be seen in the above pic. NOTE: i do not recommend wrapping the barrels with cordage , it may warp the barrels. i have since taken it off mine. I also bought a hammer extender from Cabellas to make it easier to pull back the hammer if my thumbs are wet or frozen, works great.

    i have bought a couple of rifle ammo wallets to carry extra .410 ammo with the gun, and i carry a 100 round box of ammo with the case. it stores 15 rounds of .22 ammo and 4 rounds of .410 shells in a compartment in the stock.

    i have used my M6 to hunt squirrels in the mountains of Colorado with both the .22 and the .410, they both worked well.

    You would be giving up the semi-auto feature for the .22 by having the extra .410, but i dont mind as i carry a Ruger 22/45 for a semi - auto.
    Good luck -Eric
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2006
  24. gazpacho

    gazpacho Member

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    +1 on the M6

    410 slug may even be helful against bear.
     
  25. pete f

    pete f Member

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    I would second a ruger 10/22 with a folding stock or retractable stock. have no links but they do work.

    way more reliable. mags a cheap and plentiful, will feed cb shorts, and to make it function it just becomes a straight line bolt.
     
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