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Which .308 semi-auto platform in .7.62X51 (308) for hunting?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bexar, Apr 14, 2015.

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  1. Bexar

    Bexar Member

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    Thanks...that's good info. My shooting days and reloading days are quickly approaching sunset but I'd like to get her set up with an excellent higher capacity (hogs) .308. I've reached that point where I'm more of an observer and coach than player but she loves hunting and shooting so I'd like to keep that tradition alive for her.

    She has members on both sides of the family that hunt so she'll have plenty of opportunity. Because of getting hit by a drunk driver in 1985 and the progressive vertebrae break down over time from a broken neck I'm pretty much done for any recoil over a .223.

    Hunting and shooting is more than a form of entertainment in our extended family...it's a deep rooted tradition including her grandmother's job during the Depression was to shoot swamp rabbits and catch fish and seafood out of a Louisiana bayou to feed her brothers and one sister while the men went scavenging for work. Every son and daughter, save three, on both sides of the family which includes PhDs from prestigious universities know how to hunt...does hunt...and will continue to pass that tradition on to their kids.

    Maybe it's time for an Amen.

    Thanks...Bexar
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  2. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    There are lots of good hunting calibers in an AR that are not recoil heavy. The .300 Blackout works well as seen in the pic I posted and has no more recoil than .223. There is also the 6.5 Grendel which has a very mild recoil and does well on pigs too.
    This is my Grendel...
    PigJanuary21Grendel.jpg
     
  3. Bexar

    Bexar Member

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    She already has a .308 Savage Axis she won and many of her extended family shoot at least a .30-06 but most .308s. So there's potential logistics and learned ballistics within the .308. Guns get lent back and forth within the family and I'm still not sure where one 22-250 is.:rolleyes: :fire: But I'm sure it's in some Nieces closet. I, however, do appreciate your input and photos so please continue to share.

    Bexar
     
  4. ranger56528

    ranger56528 Member

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    FNAR with 16" barrel.
     

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  5. fragout

    fragout Member

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    I have been using my SAI M1A A1 Bush rifle and M14S TANKER as hunting rifles for quite awhile now and have sold off most other hunting rifles, as they never seen the light of day once I started using them.

    Both sport 18inch tubes (18.5in technically), and have used them to hunt just about all critters in this continent. ( deer hogs bear elk moose bison so far)

    Have used them hunting in several states , with optics or iron sights, and in extreme environments during severe weather. ( Had an AR10 and a bolt gun freeze up during a freak ice storm not long ago, but the M14S chugged along just fine). Very reliable rifle and easy to maintain once one learns how.

    I built the M14S with TX hog hunting in mind. From point blank on out past 600 yards. Same with deer. Barrel is a Criterion match quality chrome lined 18.5in.

    Some info for you that might prove helpful.........

    Weight= 8.3. To 8.5 lbs ( Rifles)
    Weight = 1.5 lbs ( 20rd M14 loaded mag)

    Scope mount= ARMS 18 GEN1 split rail .
    Stocks= Synthetic M14. Service rifle. Both stocks are properly fitted to the rifles along with the handguards.

    M1A A1 is currently set up with a SWFA SS 10X scope with ARMS # 22 rings
    M14S sports a Leupold VX1 hog scope

    Old pics but shows the M14S with arms mount.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  6. fragout

    fragout Member

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    All hogs should be shot on sight in TX at the very least. 20rd mags of 308 or 7.62x51mm do just fine for dumpin them critters. M14S with surplus FMJ did the trick below pic. ( South African 146gr and Malaysian 150gr ball)
     

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  7. fragout

    fragout Member

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    M14S with the Leupold hog scope was used to place one 168gr OTM in the sweet spot. Place the shot here and you have a DRT hog .
     

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  8. fragout

    fragout Member

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    A large deer using 168gr sierra bthp at 465 yards via M1A
     

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  9. greyghost01

    greyghost01 Member

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    SIG 716 DMR, 18" match grade barrel, 2 stage Geisel trigger, Piston Driven
    1/4 MOA from Factory, Its heavy but very accurate and handles like a dream I have a brake on it recoil is Very light, It is a serious shooter
     
  10. Bexar

    Bexar Member

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    You need to name that thing the "Baconator" :evil:
     
  11. fragout

    fragout Member

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    I like it. I call it the hog slayer but baconator is right up there on the short list.
     

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  12. fragout

    fragout Member

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    Same rifle works fine on other critters too. All were taken with 165gr sierra game kings.
     

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  13. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    FNAR with 20" fluted barrel (I think that was the long-barrel model);

    P7220050.jpg

    Baby's first semi-auto :evil:. With 20rnd mags, 1MOA guaranteed (whoever said .5MOA is probably exaggerating as a general rule, but I can believe individual rifles are made that attain that; the trigger and barrel are very good), and plenty of rails for lamps, sights, lasers, and coffee mugs, I can only assume the gun would be the hammer of God on a sounder of hogs.

    I think it was purpose built for ambush-pest-control. Even as a police/DMR setup, a 20rnd mag doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for this level of potential accuracy. But for dumping a lot of rounds half-willy-nilly into a mass of writhing, oinking sausage, it seems it would fit the bill nicely.

    Without the steel fore-end rails, and with a lighter than solid-rubber stock construction, the thing is nearly on par with other lightweight 308's like AR10s. Aluminum receiver and no lower receiver, don'cha know.

    I'd also submit the BM59 (original or conversion) for consideration:
    [​IMG]
    A cut-down 308 conversion of the Garand, with quite possibly the most overbuilt 20rnd magazine ever made. Still manages to balance like a very handy gun, at around 8lbs if memory serves. Tim Shufflin of Shuff's Parkerizing does very nice conversions (I did mine myself, and while it is functional, let's just say I won't post a picture of the magwell cuts ;))

    TCB
     
  14. fragout

    fragout Member

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    Below deer = D R T at over 600 yards with M14S. ( Optic at the time was the SWFA SS 10X )
    Ammo was 168gr OTM.
     

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  15. agtman

    agtman Member

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    Glad you mentioned the OTM load. I was wondering how they'd perform on the hogs, as OTM projectiles aren't normally considered "large game" bullets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  16. chiggerbyt

    chiggerbyt Member

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    It's an oldie but I still love my Winchester M-100 with Leupold 1.5X5 low mounted scope. Carries well for me and still shooting 150 gr. power points effectively on white tail deer. :)
     
  17. Bexar

    Bexar Member

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    Good gun. As a high school kid I was loaned one to hunt whitetail. I was explained the basic operation and set up in a blind. In the blind I tried to chamber a round but being an 03' shooter I didn't want to spook the deer that might be near by pulling the bolt all of they way back and letting it fly home. Instead I eased the bolt closed. Well...it didn't go completely into battery but being unfamiliar with the operation I didn't realize that. Out comes a buck...I put the crosshairs on him...squeeze and "clack". Followed the same procedure thinking I hadn't chambered a round and things got real fouled up. Anyway...lesson learned but by the time class was over...the buck had moved on. Did you have the factory recall modification done to yours? Thanks for the memory walk.
     
  18. Glock_10mm

    Glock_10mm Member

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    DPMS LR-308 Bull Barrel

    Personally i like the 24".
    Around $1000-1400 depending on options, barrel, etc
    Out the box sub 1 MOA @ 100YDS
    I can do sub 1 MOA @ 200YDS with 150-168gr match ammo.
    Takes 20rd mags.
    My 24" with mag and 2-7x luepold is around 13lbs. My friend has the AP4 and its significantly lighter( like maybe 10lbs?). Havnt had it on scale so my numbers are approx but close.

    Impressive for a semi auto.

    Plus if youre used to AR15 layout, its the same only slightly bigger so really easy to adapt to. If you are an AR Guy, this (well any Quality AR10) should be your only choice. :D

    Im not hating on non AR platforms either, if you wanted it for more than hunting id be pushing an HK platform, but its a 3 MOA gun unless you can get a PSG-1 trigger (which alone costs more than the DPMS).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  19. fragout

    fragout Member

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    The 168gr OTM is a very consistent hog slayer, despite it's match bullet. I have shot around 100 or so hogs with this bullet as well as a few deer, and it delivers decent terminal performance on both critters. It typically exits the far side with an exit wound . My M14S sports a Criterion tube and this particular rifle shoots it very well. ( 1/10 in twist)
    If I do my part consistently, then consistent placement right below the ear on a hog always puts um in the dirt where they stand.
    The same rifle shoots 165gr sierra game kings well, and have used this bullet while hunting bear, elk, moose, and bison.
    A future caribou hunt is in the works, and while I'm confident that either load will be effective, I'll most likely use 165gr sgk's for this hunt.

    Below pic is what 168gr OTM does to bunnies at 147 yards.

    Note: The OP mentioned hunting with optics, but don't underestimate a good set of iron sights for hunting either. Especially when there is snow on the ground. It comes down to personal preference, but the M14 types with 18in tubes feel well balanced in hand and are a natural point and shoot type of rifle for me at least. If one goes this route for hunting, I would mention 2 important things to consider.
    1. Choose a set of gloves carefully if you like to wear them hunting. Reason = location of the safety. ( BTW..... I use index finger and thumb of shooting hand to disengage safety right before the shot when stalk hunting because they make a very audible click otherwise.
    2. Unlike flat top AR type rifles, be selective when choosing optics/ rings for an M14 type. Cheek weld combined with eye relief was more of a challenge for me to get it all perfect with my M14S, and M1A A1, as compared to my 16in bbl Ruger SR762.
    If one plans to mount their optic over the receiver of an M14/M1A, choose a good quality mount or go with an LRB M25 receiver. I have had good results with the following mounts: Smith Enterprise, Sadlak, and my favorite is the ARMS 18.

    Note: I forget the name of the company, but there is a mount out there that closely resembles the ARMS mount. I haven't tried it, so can't say if it is any good or not via 1st hand account. I wouldn't use any SAI mounts ( gen 1 2 3) if they were given to me.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  20. fragout

    fragout Member

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    Pic below shows exit wound via 165gr sierra game king thru the M14S. Distance was inside 300 yards.
    This pig didn't go anywhere after being hit.....needless to say.
     

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  21. Grunt

    Grunt Member

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    OK, just what is "OTM" anyways?:confused:
     
  22. fragout

    fragout Member

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    Open tip match. Factory example in below pic.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  23. Grunt

    Grunt Member

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    Ah, so that's what the kids are calling a BTHP Match bullet these days. And here I thought it meant Out The Muzzle! Well, I would hope that's the way the bullet would fly anyways.:rolleyes:
    As far as a good semi-auto for hunting, depends on what kind of hunting you do. For example, my chosen rifle (M1A match rifle built up as a USMC DMR clone) works great in open country using Sierra 168 grain BTHP Match bullets in my reloads but is too heavy and bulky for dense vegetation areas. But when my close ranges here 200m and only goes out from there, it's not a problem.
    Of course, as they say, "this post is worthless without pictures", I'll throw a few up here:

    October82013Antelopehunt_zpscaaa8b5e.jpg
    My first Wyoming range maggot taken just outside my house North of Torrington, Wyoming in 2013. Range was just a little past 600 meters and was a 1-shot stop.


    11-07-2011buck.jpg
    After many years of being stuck in the South, this was my first deer I managed to harvest in 2011 after moving back home to the family farm in 2011. Range here was 423 m and again was a 1-shot stop.


    168grainBTHPmatchexitwound.jpg
    So just what does a wound from a 168 grain BTHP match bullet look like? Here's the same buck from 2011 with his winter coat removed. In this case, this is the exit wound. Here in North Dakota, the only projectile prohibition is no FMJ ammo and (I don't even know where you'd get these) no exploding tips. A BTHP is not classified as a FMJ round so it totally legal for hunting here. Your typical projectiles "designed for hunting" that are designed to expand on impact is to take in account for poorly placed shots by the typical hunter that might only fire a box of ammo for an entire year. However, a BTHP placed properly will still leave impressive results and a quick, clean kill.
    ETA: I just noticed Fragout had used my same picture and mentioned it was 465m. Now I was confused and maybe had earlier used the same picture but had listed the wrong range. I had to grab my antler mount off the wall and check the range I wrote on the back and yup, it was 423m. If I listed a wrong range in an earlier post, I apologize but I still think the effects within 42m isn't really going to be all that different in any case.


    5EA0D29E-B7EB-4383-90E8-6589E9C611F8-2032-0000036A7EC1EFB6_zps1a30e50b.jpg
    Now of course I am a huge fan of the M-14 rifle and the performance she puts out. However, I have recently decided to go with a contender to see if I can give my old DMR a run for the money in the long range semi-auto department. This past winter I managed to complete my AR-10 SASS to see if I can get an AR10 to shoot as well as my beloved DMR rifle. To date, she's only been putting out groups a little over 1 MOA whereas my DMR with her custom designed reloads will do 3/4 MOA all day and down to 1/2 MOA when I bring my A-game out to play. However, that has been with factory 168 grain BTHP Match ammo and not handloads tuned for this particular rifle. I plan to do some experimental reloads this summer and see if I can improve her performance but for now, my DMR rifle is still king of the hill.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  24. fragout

    fragout Member

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    Which rifle do you prefer to hunt with grunt?

    In TX, your gtg with FMJ while after hogs or white tail deer. Same with match bullets.
    I love hunting in WY as well, although my bison hunt wasnt all that exciting. 165gr game king bullets do the trick on um however.

    And yes, the kids at FED and SSA like the term OTM.

    My SR762 literally froze up during a 3 day hog hunt in extreme weather ( ice snow sleet etc.....). To the point it had to be thawed out. Same thing with a RUGER GSR.

    Unlike those rifles mentioned above, the M14S worked just fine once I put a boot to the op rod handle. ( Everything was coated in a sheet of ice by the 2nd morning and by that time all equipment too include rifles were soaking wet right from the 1st day)


    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  25. Grunt

    Grunt Member

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    Well, I've only hunted with the M1A but pending load development this summer, might try the AR10 this fall. The weight is roughly equal with the DMR fully loaded being 16 lbs. 7 oz. and the AR10 being 17 lbs. 2 oz. The biggest difference I see are the heavier barrel on the Armalite compared to the medium weight Douglas barrel on the DMR but a heavier receiver of the DMR as compared to the aluminum receiver of the AR10. The reliability being equal with both rifles at 100% although the AR10 has seen only a fraction of the rounds the DMR has fired. Ergonomics can be argued in favor of the AR10 by those used to an M16 but the ergonomics of the DMR aren't as bad as many claim when you're not wedded to one AR design, especially when the cocking handle of the DMR isn't hidden under the scope like the AR10. If it wasn't for the larger charging handle of the AR10, it would be even more difficult to operate. The AR10 is simpler to break down and only requires CLP or LSA for lube where the DMR is a little more in depth taking it apart (BTW, I used Devcon liquid steel to prevent the breakdown of the bedding as traditional glass bedding is prone to do with repeated disassembly) and requires grease in certain locations but it's still not a big challenge to take apart an M14 style rifle. Also, mounting the scope for the AR10 is a lot simpler in that I used a 20 MOA canted Larue QD mount rather than attach the rings directly to the receiver. Mounting a scope on the DMR wasn't a real challenge with the Brookfield Precision mount either but while the BPT mount was the same price as the Larue mount I used for the AR10, that BPT mount was bought years ago when you could get them for $250. Not that way any more...IF you can even find one for sale!
    Really, it's a matter of what do you prefer best. If you have the mechanical aptitude of understanding that 90% of screws in the world are "righty tighty, lefty loosey", the M1A is still a pretty good choice. If you have to watch a Youtube video on how to turn a screwdriver, then the simpler AR10 may be the way to go. Right now though, I still have to go with the DMR based solely due to the fact that my DMR has put out superior accuracy when compared to the AR10. That may change in the future with further load development but as for now, it's still the DMR that I would grab before the AR10.
     
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