Which .308 semi-auto platform in .7.62X51 (308) for hunting?

[fragout]

I'm humping right at 10.5 lbs with M14S set up to shoot. ( Rifle with web sling, one 20rd mag full of 168gr OTM, Leupold VX1 1-4×20mm hog scope and rings)

The rifle itself is capable of more precision then I can utilize from most field positions, and simply find it the more useful rifle\Optic combination while after pigs in the brush where shots typically need to be made in a hurry.

.86 MOA while shooting off a decent rest with her best load.

Most anything off the shelf, and the rifle will keep it inside of 2 MOA.

Milsurp FMJ varies enough that I would have to refer to my notes via each type, but all of it will put pigs down.

 

[agtman]

The 168gr OTM is a very consistent hog slayer, despite it's match bullet. I have shot around 100 or so hogs with this bullet as well as a few deer, and it delivers decent terminal performance on both critters. It typically exits the far side with an exit wound . My M14S sports a Criterion tube and this particular rifle shoots it very well. ( 1/10 in twist)
If I do my part consistently, then consistent placement right below the ear on a hog always puts um in the dirt where they stand.
The same rifle shoots 165gr sierra game kings well, and have used this bullet while hunting bear, elk, moose, and bison.
A future caribou hunt is in the works, and while I'm confident that either load will be effective, I'll most likely use 165gr sgk's for this hunt.

Below pic is what 168gr OTM does to bunnies at 147 yards.

Thanks for the follow-up. I've always found the 168gn OTMs to be accurate in several of my rigs; glad to hear they'll also dispatch hogs.

 

[Grunt]

Yeah, the McMillian stocks weigh up pretty fast too. Fun fact about the A2 stock on my DMR clone is that McMillian had surplus stocks they had made for the DMR project they were selling and that's where mine came from. I thought about filling in the selector cutout notch but then figured that it was such an interesting feature about that rifle I decided to leave the notch alone. Yeah, it's an access point for dirt but nothing a little 100 MPH tape won't fix and still leave the historical aspect intact.

 

[fragout]

I think you made the right call with that particular rifle grunt. You might even consider one of those fake selector switches to finish off the DMR appeal, as yours is the spitting image of Uncle Sam' s version. ( Nice looking rifle brother)

I filled my selector lever holes in as the M14S wasnt built as a Military clone. Strictly a worker bee shooter in this case.

With the Smith Enterprise Vortex direct connect flash hider, overall length is only about 1 1/2 inches longer than an M1A. Socom 16, even though My bbl length is 18.5 inches compared to the Socom at 16.75 inches.

Below pic shows the differences between the SEI " front end" next to the standard castle nut front end of an 18in bbl M1A A1 Bush rifle. ( The factory muzzle brake via an M1A Scout Squad is at the same length as the GI flash hider.)

agtman: Same results here with all of my 308/7.62×51Mm rifles using OTM. So much in fact, that I use it to get an idea of how much precision a new 308 rifle is capable of ringing out.

 

[Bexar]

You know...y'all aren't helping.:banghead:

Now I want all of them!!!!

 

[Grunt]

So is there any windage adjustment with the HK style front sight post? I always love the HK style front sight "doughnut of death". However, I like the standard front sight post in that I can take on a windless day, center the rear sight to mechanical zero then adjust the windage with the front sight so as to leave me with an equal number of lateral adjustments to be made for wind.

 

[dvdcrr]

Almost all of the 308 ARs are heavy or they have a 16" barrel which gives up quite a bit of performance for 308. And do you really want to lug 9.8 lbs of steel on your shoulder for six hours.
For this reason I look at the purpose built light AR10 hunters such as the MP10 and the G2 from DPMS with 18-20" barrel.
Standard M1a with scope is somewhat heavy BUT among the 22-24" barrel 308 club its relatively light.

 

[Bexar]

Do all platforms feed/function with commercial softpoint reliably?

Thanks...Bexar

 

[fragout]

Grunt: No windage with the sei HK style front sight, but the advantages of it outweigh this for me at least.

 

[agtman]

Dvdcrr is right that many of the .308 platforms are heavy - especially those models with generous rails on long forends - but of course they'll get heavier as you start adding optics, bipod, etc.

Still, you need to vet the so-called "hunter" models, like S&W's MP 10. They tend to be ammo-finicky out of the box, choking on 7.62 FMJ surplus unless you pay a gunsmith to open up the gas port. There have also been a few negative posts from users about proprietary barrels that are not easily replaced.

As far as optimum barrel length, that entirely depends on your purpose for having a .308/7.62 AR.

For deer hunting or close-in hog-hunting, or as a "tactical blaster" that's also reasonably maneuverable, a 16" tube is fine. For a precision rig that's intended for open Match events, sniping competitions, or longer-range hunting, 18"-to-20" is optimum.

By the way, I own two M1As (one's a mid-'80s Super Match), and after many years shooting them, I feel they're best left to their stock iron sights. I've found that scoping them is ultimately awkward at the end of a long range day, compared to the ease and ergonomics of the AR-10 platform.

 

[Welding Rod]

Still, you need to vet the so-called "hunter" models, like S&W's MP 10. They tend to be ammo-finicky out of the box, choking on 7.62 FMJ surplus unless you pay a gunsmith to open up the gas port. There have also been a few negative posts from users about proprietary barrels that are not easily replaced.

Very true. Mine likes 308 and will short stroke on some lower powered 7.62 ammo.

I also agree that I found my M1as poor platforms for optics. The platform is wonderful with irons, not optics.

 

[henschman]

I don't think velocity is the main item of concern with a 16" barrel... noise is. Have you ever shot a 16" .308 without ear pro? It does not feel good, trust me. You don't hunt with ear pro do you? I'd say the Armalite AR-10B 20" is the way to go, unless you have a can.

 

[Fremmer]

Not just noise, but weight, too. For the sake of an interesting discussion:

The BAR will do everything the battle rifles will do - and it'll be better for hunting. It'll be far lighter with a better stock. Think 10 lbs isn't too heavy? Add a scope and a loaded 20 (or 30 or whatever) magazine, walk a couple of miles with it, and hold it in a semi-ready position on the field while still-hunting. It'll feel like a boat anchor by the end of the day. Just look ar the size of that FNAR. Compare that to a 7 lb short trac BAR, which will be a lot easier to carry and use in the field.

 

[MistWolf]

I just shot my M&P-10 today, using reloads that duplicate the performance of NATO ammo and it functioned just fine. In fact, I removed the carbine buffer and installed the heavier H buffer and it still functioned fine. The gas port has not been opened up and remains at .062", just as it left the factory.

When I first got it, the rifle did fine with surplus ammo. But as winter set in and the temperatures dropped, it started short stroking with anything that wasn't full power commercial ammo. It may be the rifle is ammo sensitive during cold weather, but it still seems to be getting better as it's shot more. It also weighs a lot less than 14 or 17 pounds with scope, sling and a fully loaded 20 round magazine

 

[fragout]

No problems here with any type of ammo in any weather conditions or at any altitude so far. The M14S will fire anything. ( softpoint hunting ammo too include 180gr, milsurp 7.62, steel cased fodder, and subsonic handload to name a few.

Currently working up a load for the M14S/ Leupold vx1 hog scope using 168gr Barnes TTSX bullets. My hope is that this load will coincide well with the optics holdover points out to 500 yards with 50yard zero.

My flat top SR762 was a much easier rifle to mount optics on compared to the M14 design, so Im much more selective when it comes to optics/ rings with my M14S.

But, the SR was more finicky when it came to ammo selection even though it sports an adjustable gas system.

I also was involved in a 3 day hog hunt where all rifles we took along froze up with ice. ( M14S, Ruger GSR, and Ruger SR762) Both of the Rugers had to be thawed out to get them to operate. A boot to the op- rod handle and the M14 was back in business.

As mentioned earlier, mine sports ran 18.5in bbl, and weighs out at 10.5 lbs that includes a fully loaded 20rd mag, web sling, vx1 1-4×20 Optic with rings, and Arms 18 split rail mount.

 

[Grunt]

Think 10 lbs isn't too heavy? Add a scope and a loaded 20 (or 30 or whatever) magazine, walk a couple of miles with it, and hold it in a semi-ready position on the field while still-hunting. It'll feel like a boat anchor by the end of the day.

So, get stronger. My time in the Corps was spent as an M-60E3 around the world so these "boat anchor" rifles are light in comparison. But seriously though, if you can't handle the weight of a rifle, you really need to get back into shape.

 

[agtman]

So, get stronger. My time in the Corps was spent as an M-60E3 around the world so these "boat anchor" rifles are light in comparison.But seriously though, if you can't handle the weight of a rifle, you really need to get back into shape.

Couldn't agree more - although some will simply opt for the lightest possible rig. The more disciplined path of working-out to maintain sufficient fitness requires, ... well, that you get your dupa off the couch, put away the Bon-Bons, and go work-out.

Some dudes think a "work-out" is carrying their scoped AR-10, mags, ammo, spotting scope, and gear bag from the trunk of the car to the 100-yd sight-in bench. Then these same dude-skis almost go into cardiac arrest when they take that .30-cal rifle to a tactical rifle course, suited up in another 10lbs-15lbs of vest or belt gear, and start running drills with it. Seen it happen, trust me.

Can't imagine how they'd handle a fast-moving hog-hunt, where you're out on foot all day, humpin', movin', and shootin'.

 

[d23]

reloading for .308 bolt

I have been reloading for my REM.700 for a couple of years. I did weight each bullet and separated them by .10 of grain i.e.150.00, 150.01, 150.02 and so on. Then, I noticed that the reloading book has the same powder weight for 150 to 155, and 175 grain to 180 grain.
Now, I am just measuring from the ogive of the projectile to the base and separating them. Is this the right way to have a consistency in reloading one's ammo? of course I do weighting each powder charge and using the same primer, resizing each brass and trimming them, if necessary. I am also crimping them to have less variation in muzzle velocity. I am also reloading for .223, .3006 for grand, .308 for Rem.700 and M1a, and .338 lappua.
Any one has any advice to make a better more consistent bullets? I would really appreciate any recommendation to my question.

 

[lysanderxiii]

I have been reloading for my REM.700 for a couple of years. I did weight each bullet and separated them by .10 of grain i.e.150.00, 150.01, 150.02 and so on. Then, I noticed that the reloading book has the same powder weight for 150 to 155, and 175 grain to 180 grain.
Now, I am just measuring from the ogive of the projectile to the base and separating them. Is this the right way to have a consistency in reloading one's ammo? of course I do weighting each powder charge and using the same primer, resizing each brass and trimming them, if necessary. I am also crimping them to have less variation in muzzle velocity. I am also reloading for .223, .3006 for grand, .308 for Rem.700 and M1a, and .338 lappua.
Any one has any advice to make a better more consistent bullets? I would really appreciate any recommendation to my question.

Do you think that Federal does that on their Gold Medal Match Production line?

If you are looking for accuracy, first find a load/bullet combination that works well in you rifle. then work from there to improve it.

 

[d23]

I have found 44 grain of varget with 168 grain of SMK works well at 100 yard. after 5 shots every shot goes thru the same hole created by first 5 shot. However, now I am working on 175 grain projectiles with N540 and RL15 powders for 600to 1000 yards. I have been trying to go to the range for past 6 weeks, but always some thing comes up.
I do not know what federal gold match does for its bullets. I enjoy developing my own loads, and I am looking for pointers to improve accuracy.
thanks for taking time to respond to my question.

 

[Bexar]

For you M1A owners...what kind of groups are you getting with a scoped rifle?

Any particular manufacture best or worst?

Thanks...Bexar

 

[Bexar]

I don't think velocity is the main item of concern with a 16" barrel... noise is. Have you ever shot a 16" .308 without ear pro? It does not feel good, trust me. You don't hunt with ear pro do you? I'd say the Armalite AR-10B 20" is the way to go, unless you have a can.

Noise...I was thinking noise but not having any practical experience with a 16 inch barreled .308 I couldn't even conjecture. As soon as I get opinions on the accuracy of the M1A I'm really entertaining that platform. I also need to see which she is comfortable with and scope configuration. The other is the FNAR. Lots to consider and to justify it all I would probably have to sell her Danish Garand. Anyway...

 

[fragout]

Bexar:

LRB ARMS puts out a very good quality M14S. ( This is where I bought my bbl for concerning my custom built rifle)

My LRB M14SA was built by them using the same tube, and shoots as well as my M14S custom tanker while optics are utilized.

If your plan is to use optics exclusively, you might be more interested in the LRB M25 receiver instead of their M14SA receiver. They also have an extended rail that can be used in place of the shorter one that sells with the M25.

www.lrbarms.com


Another is Fulton Armory.

I have heard good things about James River Armory, but no 1st hand use with one of their builds.

Smith Enterprise will build you a great rifle, but it is up to you to supply some of the parts last I checked.

Tim at Warbirds can also build whatever configuration of M1a you want once you send him the parts.
Im not sure if George at GA PRECISION still builds them or not.
John Wolfe also builds custom M14 types and also has parts available, so he just might build you an entire rifle to your liking.

agtman: For some, it is much easier to blame it on the rifle being too heavy rather than admit it is past time to get into shape. It is funny you bring up an all day hog hunt, as I have seen folks literally fall out after a few hours into it..... and they were cursing out their M4 clones as being too heavy.

 

[agtman]

[Quote:
Originally Posted by henschman
I don't think velocity is the main item of concern with a 16" barrel... noise is. Have you ever shot a 16" .308 without ear pro? It does not feel good, trust me. You don't hunt with ear pro do you? * * *

Noise...I was thinking noise but not having any practical experience with a 16 inch barreled .308 I couldn't even conjecture. As soon as I get opinions on the accuracy of the M1A I'm really entertaining that platform. * * *

A 16" .308/7.62 is loud. But since many (maybe most -?) owners also add a break of some type to their 16" tubes to dampen muzzle rise for quick follow-up shots (which does work), the noise, flash, and lateral concussive blast is absolutely enhanced - horrendously more so than with simple A2 FH.

 

[Bexar]

Bexar:

LRB ARMS puts out a very good quality M14S. ( This is where I bought my bbl for concerning my custom built rifle)

My LRB M14SA was built by them using the same tube, and shoots as well as my M14S custom tanker while optics are utilized.

If your plan is to use optics exclusively, you might be more interested in the LRB M25 receiver instead of their M14SA receiver. They also have an extended rail that can be used in place of the shorter one that sells with the M25.

www.lrbarms.com


Another is Fulton Armory.

I have heard good things about James River Armory, but no 1st hand use with one of their builds.

Smith Enterprise will build you a great rifle, but it is up to you to supply some of the parts last I checked.

Tim at Warbirds can also build whatever configuration of M1a you want once you send him the parts.
Im not sure if George at GA PRECISION still builds them or not.
John Wolfe also builds custom M14 types and also has parts available, so he just might build you an entire rifle to your liking.

agtman: For some, it is much easier to blame it on the rifle being too heavy rather than admit it is past time to get into shape. It is funny you bring up an all day hog hunt, as I have seen folks literally fall out after a few hours into it..... and they were cursing out their M4 clones as being too heavy.

Classic beauty. I'm settled. That's it.

Gonna take a while to raise that kinda coin and decide what to sell but I swooned when I saw "forged receiver." I'm a precision/accuracy freak but she's gonna use it to hunt deer and hogs within no greater than 250 yards and hogs are usually up close and can get very personal.

Thanks...fragout...thanks.