Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by alex13, Mar 20, 2007.
Get a BHP or an Argentine FM-M95 Classic, FN 9HP and you will not regret your purchase. I don't.
I don't know if it's best for you, but I LOVE my CZ-75B!
CZ 75 Compact
A carry gun should be concealable (i.e. slim, not bulky, accessible), resistant to corrosion from perspiration, lightweight, and of course manageable (i.e. responsive in YOUR hand, promptly brought into action). A fine choice is the CZ 75 Compact (with the CZ 75 semi- compact in 2nd place). The following are some illustrations:
1. Concealability. The champion at concealability is the Colt 1903 Hammerless, .32 acp, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Colt_1903_right_side.jpg . It is ultrathin at nearly 1" in width all the way around, 4" barrell, and single action. Recall that it was made during the early 20th Century when people could readily carry concealed weapons- both law abiding citizens and gangsters. Other handguns from the era were the .25 FN pocket pistols and thin .38 special revolvers. The purpose for these guns was to get a bullet on target at close range. There was no obsession with imaginary "stopping power" that has come to characterize the post 1960's era, http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html . The shock effect of a bullet injury as discussed in the FBI article is a key element in neutralizing a threat. In the post 1930's, the idea of bigger is better in calibers became the marketing technique of the gun industry. As a result handguns became larger in length, girth, and weight. You are now struggling with engineering contradiction between a larger caliber and the need for a smaller, concealable handgun.
Since for your question we are stuck with the 9mm, let's look at what handgun can approximate the genuine concealability of a 1903 Colt Hammerless in the limited family of guns you selected. The Glocks, though uniquely engineered, are blocky. HK's are blocky. Many S&W modern renditions are blocky. In fact many companies, even FN, offer a blocky gun that looks like a Glock, likely because they have to compete with the popularity of the Glock. Ah, marketing. Take a closer look at the Blocks vs. the CZ-75 to compare narrowness. The compact CZ-75 is light relative to its all steel construction and 3 1/2" barrell.
CZ's have near perfect ergonomic frames. Stay away from the bulky, slab side CZ's.
2. Resistance to corrosion. The CZ-75 has high gloss salt resistant synthetic finish.
3. Lightweight. The CZ is relatively lightweight. The weight is needed to control the recoil of the 9mm, which exceed the smaller calibers of the early 20th century. You give up weight for the larger caliber. The FBI's study recommends more powerful calibers to penetrate car doors. You don't need your gun for that.
3. Manageable. You need to get a grip on the gun, get it on target, and place a shot that will deter the threat to your person. It is not a wild west shoot out or A-Team combat scenario. The CZ 75, which I have owned and shot, has a very smooth action in all aspects. They are double action or have decockers. CZ-75 compacts like all CZ-75's are light in the front due to the narrow front slide, i.e. they are natural shooters because you can quickly acquire the target. My aluminum frame S&W 915 cannot compare. Yes, I have shot a Glock and the other Blocks. They are not natural target acquirers.
Glocks and other blocky guns in their full size configurations are good guns for their intended purpose- reptead, heavy use in military combat. Take a step back and you will see that massive guns like Beretta 92F, full size CZ-75, etc, are designed for assembly line type of work on a battlefield without breaking down. They are not intended to be carried in your waistband or under your arm pit all day long while you type at the office or shovel snow.
Compare your choices carefully. And, by all means when testing put each one in your waistband without loosening your belt and take it from there (which reminds me...I need to get bigger pants...damn drier shrank my pants...).
Voted other for the Ruger P-series.
Try all three and find out which one you shoot best. This matters more than anything else. I owned the CZ75B first then got a G19 later and currently prefer the G19... let me run you down the pros and cons as I see them.
- DA/SA with Safety, let's you experience different trigger pulls and actions which is an advantage from a collection standpoint.
- "Better" trigger (I like the G19's better, but that's just me).
- "Better" grip (again, the G19 fits my hand better and shoots better for me, but generally people like the CZ's grip).
- Cadet .22LR Kit with target sights lets you smooth out the trigger as you practice with cheap .22LRs... I have to say this is my favorite .22LR semi (even against purpose-built ones like the P22, MKIII, or Buckmark), few- if any- conversion kits are as good.
- Aftermarket magazines less expensive & more reliable than Glock mags
- Exchangeable grip panels.
- Sexy rounded edges and slide-in-frame design.
- Col. Cooper's recommendation... a SA with "double-strike" ability.
- Consistent trigger
- Better factory sights (CZ sights are tiny)
- More easily maintained, the CZ is no slouch with a polycoat finish, but the G19's polygonal barrel, super-easy field strip, and low parts-count give it an edge in this category.
- Accessory rail (doesn't help me but if I'm mentioning things like grip panels for the CZ...)
- Lighter & more durable, you can always cram the G19 somewhere into your range bag to give it some practice time.
- Greater slide surface to grip.
- KISS philosophy that's very zen...
Both are accurate, reliable (zero G19 failures, CZ premature slide-lock that was operator error), low bore axis, and a good value for your money. You can't go wrong with either except to buy without trying first. At least in your hand, but even better actually shooting them (many Glock converts are due to how it handles while fired, I know I was).
For me, it came down to two main things... I shoot the G19 better (which would be enough on its own to prefer it) and I'm more comfortable cleaning (or not cleaning) the G19 than I am leaving the CZ75 dirty. Maybe that's just psychology (since the CZ75 has passed some pretty wicked torture testing itself) but it translates into more range time for the G19 for me.
I voted for the CZ75B, I love mine, very accurate, reliable, and fits my hand great. I also own the kadet kit, which I use on my CZ75B or CZ75BD, or CZ75 PO1. The only problems with CZs is that when you're not looking, they tend to multiply.
My first centerfire handgun was a G19, then I bought a CZ75 P01, sold the G19 and never looked back, I am continually amazed by the accuracy of all my CZs, and I am an average shooter at best. Good luck with your decision.
CZ really makes a nice hangun.
A lot of people have been mentioning the Glock's weight as an advantage as well as tac rail. My P01 has a tac rail and it's 26 ounces - only 4 oz more than a Glock.
Either are good guns though. Somebody also mentioned the P series Rugers, you can't go wrong with those either unless you're talking conceal, which you aren't.
RE: 9mm poll choice.
I picked "other" in favor for the GLOCK 17. I prefer full sized guns as opposed to the listed G19. Higher capacity and better fit for me. Plus with many testimonies accrediting service life in the 200,000+ rounds area you really can't argue with that.
The Original Poster's (OP) poll specifically mentions the CZ75B and the G19... so a P01's weight or rail wouldn't be a particularly relevant comparison. It's a different beast with lower capacity, aluminum frame, and a decocker... maybe a worthy contender, but I only mentioned the ones asked about.
I used to be a Glock hater and owned a Beretta 96 Centurion which felt a lot more solid. But then I shot a 1911 and realized how much I disliked the DA/SA trigger. Granted a Glock's trigger can't compare to a 1911 but I like consistency between pulls and sold my Beretta and picked up a G26 for concealed carry and a few 1911s for carry and home defense. I've grown very fond of the simplicity of a Glock.
But shoot what you find comfortable. I've been impressed by the ergos of the CZs I've held but have only seen DA/SA in the local shops. Maybe I need to go order a 75 B SA...
EAA Witness P
Get an EAA Witness P - it is a beautifully made CZ clone. It feels good in the hand, eats anything you feed it, shoots accurately, and is a very reasonable weight due to the polymer frame. The price is not bad either - it's a great value for your money!
My vote goes to Walther P99 AS
Smith & Wesson 3913TSW ...
Browning HP or XD9 are good choices as well.
I'm new to this like you and also want to purchase a 9mm. I asked the question about the Ruger P89 or P94 and received positive response on this forum. I already own 2 Rugers and love both of them plus the price is right. I can't wait to go to a local gun show this Sat and check them all out!
Springfield XD-9... simply remarkable.
Ok well I went to my local shop today and checked out a few. I tried the Glock 19, XD9 and the CZ 75 B. Well the Glock 19 fit well but I have recently been leaning towards the the CZ 75 B. And the XD9 fit really well but I am a little worried about the dependability as well as its reputation. And then their is the CZ 75 B, it fit well in my hand and has a great reputation and seems to be very reliable gun. And as far as price goes their is really not much of a difference between them. But before I make a decision I am going to take a Basic Class within a week or two before I buy the gun. Decisions Decisions.
I voted CZ.. voting 'other' was on CZ's heels tho..
Ive owned 2 Glocks, and sold them both. Personally, I wont do Glock again. over hyped in every aspect imo/ime, cept you could be part of the biggest pistol groupie movement in history..lol the 19 was the better of the 2, and did preform moderately, but left much to be desired, mostly in reliability.
If you are going to look further outside of these 3 choices, peek at some Taurus, Ruger and S&W pistols.
get what works best in yer hands tho..... that more important than ANY of OUR opinions! by far!
Pro-9 / FNP-9
Kimber Aegis 9mm new to market but a sure winner.
I'm a CZHead but I don't think you can go wrong with any of the choices above. All those guns are for all practical purposes, quality firearms. It should come down to ergonomics for you and confidence in the weapon.
Whatever you decide to buy, just remember that practice & training are more important then the tool.....
CZ ALMOST UP TO THE GLOCK!! WOOHOO
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