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Which 9mm?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by 17poundr, Dec 12, 2008.

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  1. 17poundr

    17poundr Member

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    Now, I know, I know, most of you are thinking "why does it have to be a 9mm"?

    And indeed, there is no good reason why it should be, but being an European, and having looked at gun sites and read gun magazines, and having discussed handguns at the range, I get the impression that appart from America (and perhaps Latin America too, meaning Mexico-Central and South America), the 9x19mm seems to be the most commonly used caliber in the semi-auto guns being used today.

    So, if we limit to this field, I would like to get your oppinions (and learn some with any luck), about which 9mm semi-auto handgun you think takes the number one spot? (I'm not aware of any 9x19mm revolvers that are out there in great numbers, but again I'm shure there is more to learn about that too)...

    I myself trained on a FN made 'copy' of the Browning hi power in the Finnish army, and must commend it for being very easy to shoot (at least I think that's what it was :confused: how long has the 'basic FN-9mm' for sale now been going)?).

    After that, I would put the Sig-226 (the regurlar no frills version, as there were none of the specialist types for rent, I would love to try out the p-226 Equinox though).

    And then there is the cz-75. Now this is Finlands most popular semi-auto handgun, the very good price to quality ratio of the CZ-75b!

    I saw a website that was dedicated to this very issue, and maybe some of you have read it (check it out, I thought it's pretty good reading, and made for US residents, at least the prices are in USD http://www.best9mm.com/ ).

    After reading that site, I really would love to try the 'baby eagle', otherwize my ambitions lay in other guns of other calibers, and types of action (he said with the vivid image of a 5inch barrel S&W 627 with the non fluted cylinder in his mind)...

    Please share your views on the best 9mm handguns that you know of!

    Mr poundr.

    ps, I put on the article about the cz-75b, I think it does it justice.

    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  2. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    The information on the site below may be helpful to you.

    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ75.htm

    Personally my choice is the Hi-Power and the CZ75.

    There are a good many good 9mm guns out there. A lot depends on your needs and your tastes. But it's hard to go wrong with the CZ75.

    tipoc
     
  3. meef

    meef Member

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    Personally, if I could have only one (thankfully that's not the case), it would be a Hi-Power.

    Nothing else compares - in my book.

    :)
     
  4. Marcus L.

    Marcus L. Member

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    What is the best 9mm? To everyone on this board it is their own personal favorite. ;)
     
  5. Isher

    Isher Member

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    CZ P-01.

    Hands down.

    Small physical envelope for concealed carry, minimal recoil, 14 round magazines available, torture tested by the Czechs for reliability, tackdriver.

    That being said, I'm not into "work of art" guns.

    I just like a gun I can rely on 365/7/24.


    Isher
     
  6. punkndisorderly

    punkndisorderly Member

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    How about a Glock? I have a 26 for carry and a 34 for range/home defense use. While it's not sexy or exciting and it won't get you noticed at the range, it has its advantages. Fairly inexpensive, reliable to a fault, easy to take down, easy to clean, and holsters/accessories abound.

    The Smith M&P is another worth checking into.
     
  7. TOADMAN

    TOADMAN Member

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    Glock 19.. The most popular Glock in the entire Glock line-up.. Possibly the overall most popular 9mm..
     
  8. 17poundr

    17poundr Member

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    First, thanks for Tipoc for this good link!

    " The information on the site below may be helpful to you.

    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ75.htm ".

    It really seems like it's a threesome between the CZ, Browning(or FN, take yer pic), Hi-Power, and the Glocks... (although I didnt quite know what was meant by the 'zc P-01' that Isher mentioned, any pics or links on that)?

    I havent had the pleasure of firing a Hi-power, but I guess the FN's that we had in the Finnish army back in 1990-91, were some kind of 9mm Hi-power guns, as I seem to remember they resembled the general appearance. Nowadays the Finnish army has the Walther P-99 as their handgun.

    I have shot the Glock-17 though and It was a very good all round gun. The fact that I didnt remember anything special about it, isnt bad at all, what I think it means is that it functioned flawlessly, thus giving me the impression of smooth shooting, and one thing that I must point out is that when one is in say minus 17c, then the metal trigger and slide of the older FN's were pretty darn nasty on the fingers (before they went completely numb ofcourse, but then we couldnt hardly rack the guns anyway, this was a one off four hour session to get us into the feeling of what it's like to shoot without anykind of gloves on in the Finnish winter, and man it hurts)!

    So, for taking that into mind, the polymer Glock is perfect for wintertime, as most normal gloves for warming up the hand, are almost impossible to shoot with!

    And as we are on polymer guns, I shure would love to try the Springfield XD, and the Walther p99! Although I'm not shure if they are similar in being 'true polymer guns', or if the p99 has only some polymer parts in it...:confused:
    [​IMG]

    Having said that, I do have a thing for 'good old iron guns', and I would love to try out the imported Turkish made Armalite-24, and the EAA, Zastava, the Zastava is said to be very much like the sig (I assume they mean the sig-226).

    Please keep your info coming in!

    Mr poundr.
     

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  9. PAPACHUCK

    PAPACHUCK Member

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    I own 4 9mm's;

    Overall favorite = Sig P229

    Everyday carry 9mm = Glock 19

    Pocket pistol = Kel-Tec P11

    Range gun = Beretta 92FS


    Yes, I like the 9mm.
     
  10. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    All Browning Hi Powers are made by FN, so whether its FN or Browning labeled its the same gun. I'd either go Hi Power or CZ.
     
  11. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Also a big fan of CZ75 family, Browning Hi-Power, Kahrs, and 1911s (which can be had in 9mm), and to a lesser extent, Sigs.
     
  12. ZeBool

    ZeBool Member

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    I would go Springfield or H&K, the XD is cheaper but I love the P30
     
  13. Isher

    Isher Member

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  14. george29

    george29 Member

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    I like the 9mm. It is not the same weak round that was produced decades ago but Americans were brought up on the Bigger-is-Better mentality. This why we have huge vehicles (but Toyota is leading the Big Three) and why we have huge butts (Super Size me). Europeans traditionally set minimal requirements on their lifestyles (I spent many years in European Countries). The French eat very well but small proportions, Italian men think nothing of riding scooters instead of motorcycles. The 9mm of today is as every bit and perhaps better than the .45 in many ways. This comment will get me flamed but I assure you that even Jeff Cooper would not totally disagree with the 9mm when it was properly loaded with the right bullet weight, configuration and velocity. Jeff did in fact believe that the Browning High Power, the same thing Europeans call the FN Browning or FN Herstal, was the best platform to shoot the 9mm.
    I have done much research into the 9mm, carried it for over a decade in the Mark III configuration as my primary carry whilst in uniform and love its classic design and reliability. However, were I to get a 9mm that would serve as my everything gun, if I were restricted to one gun because of my spouse or government, I would have to say that the Glock 17 or 19 are the best choice for reliability, comfort, interchangeability, repairs, accuracy and firepower. The 19 does not properly fit my hand because of the grooves, the 17 was fine and I can't remember now why I got rid of the one I owned. The Glock has very good resale value and is easy to get rid of, more than any other weapon on the market. Personally, I defend myself with revolvers, but if I were to bet on any one handgun, I would go the Glock route, and I don't say this lightly for I think they are ugly and boxy, but they have a great reputation, are cheap to customize or repair and are adequate for most jobs dealing with two legged, and certain 4 legged creatures. The Glock will also shoot +P+ and MG rounds. The FN/HP has been known to crack its frame because of +P ammo. Metalurgy is much better but they still advise against it.

    There are more comfortable guns (S&W Sigma), there are more advanced guns (S&W M&P), There are lighter guns and everything in between guns. I personally have had the pleasure of owning / carrying in 9mm: Jericho & Baby Jericho, Beretta 92FS, Glock 17, CZ75, FN MKIII, S&W 6904, 5904, Ruger P89. I have examined the Rami, Cheetah, P11, Star, Bersa, G19 & 26, XD, HK, Sigs, EAA Witness (metal & polymar), Kahr PM9 and probably a few others.

    I still stand with going with a Glock (for Europeans), and trust me, I find saying this very difficult.
    I also would choose a properly loaded 9mm over a properly loaded 45, and the 1911 was my first love and it still is a wonderful classic design. But a Glock 17 with a +2 mag extension is 19+1 of +P+ power. that's close to three times the capacity of a normal .45 and 100/115/124/127/147 grains of +P+ going at 1100-1500 fps is nothing to mock.

    The next closest weapon in 9mm is the M&P, some say it is better than the Glock. For you in Finland, the Glock is more recognizeable, for me here in the States, I could choose either and be OK.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  15. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    You can view some of the other CZ products here...

    http://www.czusa.com/

    The other nines mentioned also have their sites.

    tipoc
     
  16. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Pick one...If it works 100% of the time...It's yer favorite...
     
  17. mongo4567

    mongo4567 Member

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    I like the Glock 17, Beretta 92FS, and Browning HP.
     
  18. DawgFvr

    DawgFvr Member

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    After many weapons...I now CCW the Glock 26 in a MTAC holster.

    Comfortable...reliable...light weight...and 11 rounds of hollow point 9mm will solve most any social problem.
     
  19. modifiedbrowning

    modifiedbrowning Member

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    Definitely check out the Walther P99. The best polymer pistol IMO.
     
  20. the foot

    the foot Member

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    I own a Browning Hi-Power and a SIG P228. Both function flawlessly, both shoot straight. I recommend either of these. My next 9mm will be the CZ75.
     
  21. amprecon

    amprecon Member

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    Not very well-known or popular, but this little gem has been totally accurate and reliable and the price just can't be beat at $350 out the door. Now it may not be as polished or refined as the other leading mfg's, but what do you want to do with it, stick it in a glass presentation case or use the heck out of it? With a 13-round magazine it has a very nice grip and as I could pick any weapon out there to carry I use this the Bersa Thunder 9 Ultra-Compact.
    It has an aluminum-alloy frame and a decocking safety which I felt more comfortable with for carrying than I did with my Glocks.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "..."why does it have to be a 9mm"?..." 'I want one', is reason enough. Please reduce the size of your pictures. And go buy a Browning High Power. An Inglis, if you can find one.
    "...not the same weak round that was produced decades ago..." It was never 'weak'. Jeff Cooper decided it wasn't powerful enough. He also thought a bolt action rifle should have its scope on the barrel. His 'Scout rifle' idea was one of his sillier ideas.
     
  23. CPshooter

    CPshooter Member

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    Glock 19. It's still my favorite all-around handgun. I own several handguns, but the 19 is still the most versatile, best performing all-around gun that I own. I love it!

    Here is a crappy pic of mine w/ night sights and a glock 17 mag w/ a +2 factory extension for a total capacity of 19+1. The stock 15rd mag is also loaded w/ gold dots, and the 33rd Glock mag loaded with WWB FMJ is just for "backup." :)
    [​IMG]

    Forgot to mention that the 9mm is a great round. Don't listen to the non-believers! A good 9mm JHP can do the same thing as a .40 or .45. I own all 3 calibers, and still stand by this statement.
     
  24. 17poundr

    17poundr Member

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    Thanks guys! Loved the pictures.

    good posts chaps! And thanks again for this: 17poundr -

    Here ya go -

    http://czcustom.com/catalog/product_...c03a6c1dd093db

    I have a pair of them.

    One house gun.

    And one which goes everywhere I go.

    Isher

    I looked at it and it could be a good carry gun. Otherwize I would stay with the 4.4 inch barrel on the cz-75 rather that the 3.9inch barrel on the cz-01, but for carry, now that makes the 01 a good option.

    Thanks for bringing the Bersa to my attention. I always have equated Bersa with the imho good looking .380 Bersa (that looks rather like a Walther PPK), it's good to know that they make a 9x19mm gun too. Bersas are pretty cheap, how much is that 9mm? is it about 3-400usd new?

    The slovakian madeK100 seems interesting, check it out [​IMG]
    does it have anything to do with the east european factory that makes the springfield XDs?
    I noticed that nobody has mentioned the Ruger 9mm's. They are good, and durable I have heard. Also the Beretta storm got praise from a guy on the forums. The EAA Zastava gives a sig-226 performance but for half the price!(About 400+ usd). And the Sig-226 shoots a bit tighter double tap groupings than the Hi-power (at least according to the two SAS soldiers showing the SAS kit in a tv program, the two handguns they use, are the older Browning hi-power and the newer Sig-226)... ( http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_194_32/ai_n25469389?tag=rbxcra.2.a.3 ).
    There is a new 9mm from Taurus, it's based on the model 92 with the shorter 4 inch barrel, and has a whopping 20round magazine!
    [​IMG]

    The armalite ar-24 is reportedly a very good all metal handgun, of good quality (made as all guns were back in the 'good old days'), and has similary quality made parts as in the good old CZ-75b. ( http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_53/ai_n27161899/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1 ) [​IMG]

    I would love to own an XD. And here is a very special camo scheme on the 9mm xd! : [​IMG]

    And then there are the high end guns, to name one is the German Korth. Now that is such hi quality, that it will set one back by over 4000euros! But it must be worth it. And like most EU nation built guns, it's a 'niner'.
    [​IMG]
    I saw a great reasoning on why the 9mm has been considered worse than it is in the US, it was to do that when the 38special was the most used round in the US (before ww2), the US looked down on the smaller looking 9mm parabellum. What many americans didnt know back then was that the 38special used an older fashioned powder in it's cartridge, and was pretty much filled up with it.

    But the 9mm parabellum was designed for the new 'smokeless powder', more to the tune of modern fast burning propellants. This means that the 9x19mm cartridge is not near filled up with propellant, something that explains why it's more powerful than the larger 38special.

    This explained the thing to me too, as I had wondered when holding the 38special in my hands, that 'how can this be deemed less poweful than the 9mm?

    Not only is the 9mm a great all rounder but pretty good for smaller usually 3inch barrelled semi pocket handguns, as the .40cal and the .45apc might kick too much, and flip the barrel too high for good double taps. I did like the makarov in 9x18mm I must confess, no recoil to speak of, I would use it as a carry/backup gun. And the 9x17mm'kurz', has it's usages in similar guns too... But all in all I would put my faith for various reasons in these hangun calibers: the 22lr (plinking deluxe, and a great training ammo for 1911 kits), 327magnum(pretty darn good according to what I have read, finally a '32' that delivers proper punch similar to a light 9mm), 9x19mm, 357magnum (both the original and the new 357sig), .40s&w, 10mm, 45apc and the magnum44.

    From these calibers the 9mm is a pretty good 'all rounder'. And that is probably why it's arguably the worlds most commonly used handgun ammo.


    Here is what I pasted from ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum ', : As mentioned above, the .357 Magnum was developed from the earlier .38 Special. This was possible because the .38 Special was originally designed to use black powder, which requires two to five times as much powder by weight to produce the same velocity with the same bullet as does the much more efficient smokeless powder. Thus the .38 Special has a relatively large case. The 9 mm Para was introduced the same year (1902) but was originally designed for smokeless powder, and for higher pressures (~35,000 psi). It therefore produces considerably more energy than the .38, despite its case having less than 1/2 the powder capacity. Most 9 mm powder charges fill the case to the base of the bullet, and some are heavily compressed. Many .38 Special loads use the same powders, in similar charge weights, but because the case is so much larger, those charges only fill the case about half full. Light target loads with fast burning powders may only fill the case perhaps 1/8 full. Filling the case with slower-burning powders produces much more power, but also much more pressure; far too much pressure for older, smaller-frame revolvers chambered in .38 Special. It was to accommodate these high-pressure, high-power loads that the longer .357 Magnum, together with the stronger revolvers designed to handle it, were developed.

    This explains what I was trying to say about the 9x19mm round being so efficient despite it's rather smallish size.

    Thanks and keep up the posts. :)
    Mr poundr.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  25. tbtrout

    tbtrout Member

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    I am partial to the CZ 75. I liked the Walther P99 and Sig P226. I do want a BHP. But I chose the CZ first and have no regrets. Until recently it was the sleeper in the US handgun market.
     
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