Which AR should I get based on the following

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Skribs, Dec 27, 2011.

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  1. proven

    proven Member

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    the best advice i can give is to buy a plain jane 16"bbl carbine and a case of ammo. you've already admitted that you have very little (if any) rifle experience. so buy a quality carbine and learn to shoot it....at more than ten feet. become comfortable with the operation, do clearance drills, and just plain shoot the heck out of it. THEN, once you are proficient with it in stock form, decide what is necessary for your application and what isn't. same thing with a HD shotgun, learn how to shoot it. you might just find that anything more than a light is just extra weight.

    as for brand, you just can't go wrong with a colt, bravo company, lmt.....
     
  2. BCMjUnKiE

    BCMjUnKiE Member

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    I second the dog. I have a 84lb. Red nose pitbull that is solid muscle. If you can get by him, good luck. Then it's me you have to deal with which will not end up good.
    Get the AR that will work for you best. You just can't beat a BCM.
     
  3. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Option 1: Get a BCM USA upper and snap it onto any lower. I usually recommend the BCM USA 14.5" upper, standard barrel, middy gas (high preformance)or carbine gas (reliability with weak ammo), 12" Larue rail, pinned PWS 556 flash comp, and the standard BCM auto bolt carrier group.

    Option 2: Get a Colt 6920. Send the upper to ADCO. They can cut the front sight off and install a rail for you. I'd recommend the 12" Larue rail or 13.2" Larue.


    You can add a Stag ambi safety, Magpul BAD lever, and BCM large charging handle to any AR to get full ambi control. Magpul XTM covers are nice for your lower and side rails.

    Ironicly, even though the Ar15 wasn't originally designed for ambi use, with these simple mods, it works better when used ambi, than most of the newer ambi oriented carbines out there.
     
  4. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    In that senerio I prefer the much weaker FN PS90 5.7x28mm carbine.
     
  5. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    What I don't understand is if you know all of this about HD how do you not know at least a couple of the "Tier 1" AR rifles to pick from? You know what rails, lights grips, and sights you need but don't have a clue who makes a quality AR. You like the car analogy. It's like knowing who makes good headers, tires, and exhaust but not knowing who makes a good car. Seems odd.

    I'll suggest one more thing. Go to the store or shop at your favorite online dealer and buy one. Being in the debating stage does no good when an issue comes through your front door.
     
  6. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Noveske, Larue, DD, KAC all make exactly what I think the OP is talking about give or take a couple small parts. LMT, BCM (if available) may also have somthing similar.

    Most of us just pick out good uppers, often from Larue or BCM, and build our own lowers now.
     
  7. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Because I've been reading the generic strategy and looking at what I need in a rifle to meet that strategy, and then I found a platform that met what I needed, that platform being the AR. From that point, I wanted to narrow it down to a make and model. S&T doesn't discuss brand so much as they discuss generic "rifle" "long gun" or even "AR".

    I know of accessories not just from my search for my AR, but also from when I was setting up my Benelli with accessories. That's when I decided that I want a light for target ID (based on S&T reading), a RDS for target aquisition, among others. I've also handled an AR (dont know the brand) to know that I'm most comfortable holding it with a Magpul AFG.
     
  8. StrutStopper

    StrutStopper Member

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    As someone here previously mentioned, you should probably spend an evening reading through some posts on m4carbine.net. Lots of knowledge there from people whose lives depend on the AR platform. Personally, for my first AR, I just picked up a complete upper (less BCG and hand guards) from LMT and a stripped lower and put it together with quality components. I'm glad I went that route. If you want to purchase a kit, PSA has some great deals and quality components from what I hear although I have no personal experience with them. Of course, if you want a complete rifle already built, for your purposes a S&W M&P, Colt, BCM, DD would probably work just fine for you. Of course, adding an aimpoint will probably up the price by 50% but if you want a reliable red dot you get what you pay for.
     
  9. proven

    proven Member

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    skribs, once again, you're putting the cart ahead of the horse. have you ever shot an AR? or any rifle for that matter? how many rounds have you put downrange with your benelli? what works for others may not work for you, and you're talking about changing things on a rifle that you have absolutely no experience with other than holding one and you didn't even know what brand it was. doing research is fine, reading suggestions is fine. but starting with a basic rifle until you learn to handle it well is a much better idea than changing out and adding a bunch of stuff to a rifle platform that you have no experience with. you can't become proficient with a firearm by reading on a forum.

    on the other hand, if you just want to be a mall ninja and have a rifle with bells and whistles to shoot once a year at ten feet and show off to your buddies, then by all means, proceed as you have.
     
  10. marine 97-03

    marine 97-03 Member

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    Well said proven
     
  11. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Read the stats and police reports on home invasions. Most are initiated by the big three - you stole drugs from a dealer, you are sheltering "someone else's" woman, or you prominently display valuables others think they can take from you.

    Here's another: Most gun thefts involving B&E occur the following six weeks after showing off a firearm to a "friend of a friend." What many naively assume is admiration is actually casing out what's available to steal. Most of these "friends" have buddied up in the past few weeks and aren't really vetted yet, but enthusiastic about what you have.

    Yes, home invasions ARE real, when the druggies and jealous boyfriends are taken out of the equation, then the serial murderers pop up, which are extremely rare. The best defense is to be prepared, and deal with physical security of the property. The last thing you want to do is ask why you opened the door to them, and that's exactly how most get in - the homeowner was "being nice."

    "Fight your way to a long arm" is BS - you'd better have it ready every time you open the door. People kicking it in need to be addressed IMMEDIATELY, not after they have barricaded you in a "safe room." Overpenetration works BOTH ways - if they want you dead, they can shoot through the flimsy hollow core doors, or through the sheetrock.

    I spent some time in MOUT, one facility was an abandoned office complex where you could work thru existing sheetrock stud walls. It's not hard at all. Anyone who's remodeled will tell you it's the preferred construction technique because it's so easy to tear down. Lathe and plaster is much more difficult - but not impossible. There's one specific reason why tomahawks and breacher bars are carried at the team level - if you can't go thru a door, make one.

    Turning your back to retreat to a safe room that isn't armored, literally, also reduces your options of self defense. The perp and target acquisition are no longer the focus at exactly the time when centering the sights on them is required - they have demonstrated intent, and their actions are life threatening.

    Just shoot them with your handgun. Again, most homeowners who do respond do exactly that, and less than three shots are fired. Why? The perp decides the risk is now too high for whatever reward, and they leave, if still ambulatory.

    Study the big picture instead of myopically focusing on special 1% situations, and take care of the major reasons why someone would even find you or your domicile an easy target. CCW is the real answer to personal self defense 24/7, not trying to outrun the guy to the cool hideout of the tactical HD gun he already saw come from your bedroom. Regaining consciousness from hearing the screams of your significant others locked in with him and his two companions is not what you want to hear while discovering severe trauma that has disabled you. There is NO guarantee you will have the upper hand in the initial assault. That's another one of those annoying little statistics - Joe Perp likes to ambush his victim, it's the preferred method to maintain dominance and reduce injury to himself.

    If this 100 unit condo is so dangerous that a rifle is needed as backup to an existing handgun, why is anyone but a victim still living there? For the money, a Uhaul is cheaper. People flee the metros precisely for these reasons.
     
  12. jlg

    jlg Member

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    Several people have mentioned these already but I will mention them again...

    Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport
    - May be hard to find. They are a good deal and aren't being shipped out in super mass quantities, but they're out there.
    - Has a 1:8 twist which will allow you to shoot most any ammo
    - Using 5R rifling which is supposedly better than standard rifling...although I don't have any first hand knowledge
    - Doesn't have a dust cover or forward assist - neither of which do I believe you need unless you just like the looks of them
    - Comes with a MagPul flip up rear sight and a fixed front sight post. If you're using a red dot the front sight post will be in your sight picture. However, if you like to have co-witnessed iron sights this can be a positive thing.

    DPMS Oracle
    - Much easier to find than the S&W
    - 1:9 twist / standard rifling
    - flat top, no front sight post, no rear sight - optics ready

    IMO, having held both side by side, the S&W looks and feels nicer. The buttstock looks and feels much better on the S&W than the one that comes on the DPMS - if I could get either one and the price was the same I'd take the S&W.

    You can easily swap out the standard handguard on either one with carbine length quad rails ($40-100 for good enough - you can spend $200+ on rails but I don't see the need and it sounds like you don't either)

    Ambidextrous safety is fairly easy to swap out yourself later

    You should be able to find either one for under $650
     
  13. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Tirod, to my back is a 3rd story window, not sure how many people are going to be Mission: Impossible-ing into my room from that direction.

    Like I said, I'm not planning on using my handgun to fight through hordes of BGs on the way to my rifle. I'm planning on, if something goes bump in the night, grabbing my handgun from my desk (which is right next to my bed) and going to get the long gun from the safe, which isn't right next to the bed (it's in a less visible location). That way, if the BG pops into my room before I get my long gun, I still got my handgun. Home invasions aren't always because I let someone in - they can also happen because someone broke in while I'm in another room.

    So because I shot a shotgun first, I should never use a rifle? Or, since I have a shotgun, should I use that even after buying a rifle, and then decide which I want to grab?

    And I have used the 9mm and .40 versions of an AR enough to know they're the easiest weapon to shoot that I've used. I just bought the shotgun first because I don't need to find a new range (pistols and shotguns only at the one I go to now) and it was half the price of an AR.

    I am smart enough to know that if I don't have enough practice with it, I shouldn't use it. However, if I never get one, I'll probably never practice with it. If I do opt to use the shotgun or the handgun, I still can. I'm not trading in my Benelli for an AR, I'm adding it to the collection. But for some reason you seem to think I only want to have 1 gun and that it's going to collect dust until someone breaks in and I hope I know the MOA by that point. I don't see how you could have such a negative opinion of me simply by the fact that I'm asking for advice on brand names I could look at.
     
  14. proven

    proven Member

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    you're aren't just looking for a brand name to look at. you've stated what you want to rifle to have, what optic you are going to use, how you don't need it to hit anything beyond ten feet, you've posted an article to back up your choice of the rifle in HD over the handgun or shotgun.......all without ever having shot it in the first place.

    you've been give plenty of quality brands to consider. add a rifle to your collection and learn to shoot it. it's pretty simple. learn to use the tool before deciding that it's the best one for the job.
     
  15. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Exactly. My question was "based on the criteria above, what brands would you recommend". My posting of the article was because a lot of people are bashing me for what I want in a rifle. FYI, if you peruse this forum, there are a lot of people who feel the AR15 and the .223 is a great platform. So yes, for my post here, I WAS just looking for a brand name to look at. Because I had already considered the other factors by doing my research in the other areas.

    I may not have shot a .223 before, but I have shot an AR. Once again, I wasn't even asking whether or not to get an AR, but specifically which brand to get. Before I got my handgun I didn't have much experience with one, but I did my research, tested a few, and found one I liked that met my requirements. That's what I'm doing here.
     
  16. 2WheelsGood

    2WheelsGood Member

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    You don't have to swing a hammer to know it's the best tool for driving a nail. You don't have to drive a car before knowing it's a good way to get from point A to point B. And you don't have to pull the trigger on an AR before you have a pretty good idea what it can do. The original question was absolutely legitimate. Your responses are not.
     
  17. proven

    proven Member

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    neither are your analogies. there are plenty of different hammers, cars, and firearms....and they don't all fill the same role. knowing what something can do is different than knowing it's the best for a certain job. i'm surprised i have to explain this.

    the OP has been given many suggestions on reputable brands. i'm simply of the opinion that before you employ something for HD or choose to mod a weapon you should become proficient with it in the first place. no amount of reading or research can do that for you. feel free to disagree, i care not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  18. proven

    proven Member

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    skribs....let us know what rifle you choose based on your research.

    cheers
     
  19. jlg

    jlg Member

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    This thread is quickly going down in flames.

    Why don't we get back to giving the OP suggestions based on first hand knowledge to help him make a wise, researched decision on which AR15 brand / model to buy.

    I'd hate for the moderators to lock the thread before the OP was able to get the information he needs.
     
  20. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    What info is there left to say? People have covered the budget options that seem to be built well and people have covered the tier 1 options as well. It's time to pick and move on.
     
  21. kfgk14

    kfgk14 Member

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    Not interested in building? I'd say you could build to your specs and get a very good rifle for not too much money, but if you aren't interested in building, just buy a Palmetto State Armory 16" mid-length and add the ambi safety and magazine release.
     
  22. Hacker15E

    Hacker15E Member

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    QFT.

    I think the OP -- like many of us -- would be well suited with a basic firearm, a case of ammo, and time spent at the range learning it well and practicing. Knowing your weapon and having a solid foundation in basic marksmanship skills (which, unfortunately, some firearms enthusiasts seem to have ignored or bypassed) is the real cornerstone of being able to defend person or property with a firearm. Those skills are far, far more important than any gadgetry.

    People have defended themselves and their property extremely well for a long, long time using firearms without the "benefits" any faddish tacti-cool mall ninja accessories.
     
  23. sgtstryker

    sgtstryker Member

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    The Doublestar brand seems good and a good deal. I put a DPMS upper on one of their lowers this year and it performs great. However, I did replace the trigger with a Geissele two-stage. It depends on what you want the rifle to do, as many have said. Good luck, Good shooting.
     
  24. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Can someone explain to me the benefit of training with irons if my plan is to put an RDS on the rifle? Wouldn't it be better to train on an RDS?
    It would be like telling someone "oh, you want a Glock? Get a lot of practice with a Ruger LCR so you can shoot good with the Glock."

    I said in the OP I have little experience, not no experience.

    No, but I can get advice from reading a forum, and luckily I know which advice to follow. I'm not planning on having a rifle that will cook my pizza and call my grandmother on tuesday. I have very specific reasons for wanting what I do...

    A red dot for target acquisition (you can say an RDS doesn't help here...but you'd be lying or grossly misinformed). Yes, I have used a pistol caliber AR with the standard A2 sights and with a red dot, so I know first-hand the difference. Yes, irons are just as accurate. Accuracy isn't what I'm trying to improve by getting an RDS.

    A Magpul AFG for comfort. Because I've tried both the standard grip and a VFG, and found the AFG to be more comfortable than both. Are you going to tell me that ergonomics is a mall-ninja trait?

    A flashlight for target identification. Which is recommended by pretty much anyone. For those who say "how are you going to keep the light on?" please, actually use a weaponlight (I only bring it up because someone mentioned it earlier that I need a spare hand for the light).

    I've had several people answer the actual question in this post. To those people: thanks. To those who are going off on tangents that have nothing to do with the OP, and then assuming that because I didn't bring it up in the OP I obviously have no clue what it is: do you feel mighty enough now?
     
  25. proven

    proven Member

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    what will you do if the rds fails? fall back to irons that you've neglected to train with? i, and others are of the opinion that becoming proficient with irons precludes adding other types of sights. you're also talking about ten feet or less. how much faster do you actually think a rds is at that range, in a hd situation? if an assailant is only ten feet away you'll be snap shooting, and you won't be "aiming" anything. JMHO. but then, you already "know what advice to follow". just go buy a rifle already and shoot it.
     
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