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Which Boberg XR9?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by ABBOBERG, Feb 22, 2008.

?

Which gun should be offered first?

Poll closed Apr 23, 2008.
  1. Boberg XR9 Standard Size (5.84")

    45 vote(s)
    46.4%
  2. Boberg XR9 Shorty (4.99")

    52 vote(s)
    53.6%
Thread Status:
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  1. Sylvan-Forge

    Sylvan-Forge Member

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  2. rsilvers

    rsilvers Member

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    Interestingly I would have made the barrel even longer. This was a perfect opportunity to get a 4.5 inch barrel into a small pistol.

    There is no benefit to chopping the barrel for IWB-holster carry and I would never pocket-carry anything.

    A longer barrel has more velocity, better sight radius, and less muzzle flash. Also it makes me more content to shooting standard pressure ammo. If I have a short barrel I feel like I need +P to make up the lost velocity but that is punishing to shoot.

    I like this so far, providing you can clear a jam and it ends up working well.
     
  3. ABBOBERG

    ABBOBERG Member

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    Thanks for the lead - I will be giving them a call.

    Arne
     
  4. ABBOBERG

    ABBOBERG Member

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    I don't like the word "was". This is a brand new product and can be offered in other permutations. I plan on offering different barrels as drop-ins. A 4.5" can be made, and possibly offered as a standard option if it becomes popular. I was thinking that a 4.75" would be nice as a match the Beretta 92barrel.

    If a longer frame is desired to match the barrel length, it can be considered later on as an added SKU. Otherwise, the XR9, with longer drop-ins, will look like the LAR Grizzley, with the extra pipe protruding from the slide.
     
  5. ABBOBERG

    ABBOBERG Member

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    There is no question that the long barrel makes this gun look, sound and feel like you are shooting a much larger gun, but the other advantage to this design that is not apparant until you shoot it is the minimal chamber blowback. The chamber does not have to be sloppy since the cartridge doesn't have to come from the bottom and "wiggle" into the chamber like on a traditional feed mechanism. Tighter chamber clearance yields about 4% more kinetic energy with 115 grain bullets, and 12% more energy with 147 grain bullets compared to other same-barrel-length guns with the standard sloppy chambers. More power channeled forward instead of backward...
     
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Don't do it.
    Stick to standard chamber dimensions.
    It is not worth it for the ballistics and your reputation. SAAMI or CIP is a safe bet. The 1911 industry is plagued by undersize chambers, I suspect by reamer wear in mass production and by a desire to advertise slightly greater accuracy in the high end. They pay for it by reduced reliability and you cannot afford that on a startup with a radical new design. I don't care what you say about your design's superiority in feeding, it must accept all ammunition under all conditions. People are peculiar, they will buy a thousand dollar gun and then shop for the cheapest crap to shoot in it, then complain loudly and widely if it jams.
     
  7. Reinz

    Reinz Member

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    If you can get the recoil system working right out of the shute, then I would be more likely to buy a shorty more quickly than a full size. I am more of a CCW kind of a guy in a hot weathered state. I wear a jacket maybe 7-8 weeks out of the year tops. A coat, 1 -3 days maybe. The smaller, the better.

    Thanks for listening and best ot luck to ya!

    Reinz
     
  8. bnsmartt

    bnsmartt Member

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    I would like to see the xr9 come out first
    it dose look visually balanced.
     
  9. Sylvan-Forge

    Sylvan-Forge Member

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    Excellent! I bet it'd be slick with a good suppressor.
     
  10. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Member

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    I've got to agree with Jim. Damn few people will ever actually chrono their new pistol, but if even one in twenty decide to use crappy ammo and have reliability problems as a result, the hate threads will be never-ending.
     
  11. GDN28

    GDN28 Member

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    Shorty

    My vote is for the shorty. My wife loves the look of the gun and it is now at the top of her Christmas list.
     
  12. Loomis

    Loomis member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
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    I like the shorty micro.

    One thing I would like you to try to improve, is to try to reduce the distance from the trigger to the bore axis. A high bore axis combined with a stubby grip makes for an uncomfortable gun to shoot.

    At one time, Taurus was making a small pistol with a titanium slide. I would like to see your shorty micro made with a titanium slide AND a titanium frame. Forget about polymer frames for now.

    Maybe you could even experiment with a stainless frame combined with a titanium slide. My reasoning for this is that a top heavy pistol does not feel good in the hand. ONe reason why the 1911 colt will not die, in my opinion, is that it has an unusually narrow slide and an unusually low center of gravity.

    If you could get a very low bore axis, like in an HK P7, and the narrow slide/low center of gravity "feel" of a 1911 colt, you will conquer the world with your little gun. A heavy-ish frame combined with a light top end could give you some of that "feel".

    Just my $0.02

    One more little brainstorm I had...it seems to me that your mechanism would be well suited to a broomhandle mauser type of pistol chambered in something too long to fit in the grip. Like maybe 30-30 winchester. :)
     
  13. Loomis

    Loomis member

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    I like the shorty micro.

    One thing I would like you to try to improve, is to try to reduce the distance from the trigger to the bore axis. A high bore axis combined with a stubby grip makes for an uncomfortable gun to shoot.

    At one time, Taurus was making a small pistol with a titanium slide. Maybe they still do. I would like to see your shorty micro made with a titanium slide AND a titanium frame. Forget about polymer frames for now.

    Maybe you could even experiment with a stainless frame combined with a titanium slide. My reasoning for this is that a top heavy pistol does not feel good in the hand. ONe reason why the 1911 colt will not die, in my opinion, is that it has an unusually narrow slide and an unusually low center of gravity.

    If you could get a very low bore axis, like in an HK P7, and the narrow slide/low center of gravity "feel" of a 1911 colt, you will conquer the world with your little gun. A heavy-ish frame combined with a light top end could give you some of that "feel".

    Just my $0.02

    One more little brainstorm I had...it seems to me that your mechanism would be well suited to a broomhandle mauser type of pistol chambered in something too long to fit in the grip. Like maybe 30-30 winchester. :)
     
  14. belus

    belus Member

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    Titanium is about 5x more expensive than stainless for the raw material, and hugely more expensive to machine.

    If I were involved in this company I'd be pushing for aluminum frames (assuming the durability is there). Al-7075 is the new super strength aluminum alloy, but Al-6061-T6 is a classic standard of the aerospace industry. Anyways, the money saved on machining would be something I'd pour into marketing: magazine adds, sponsored articles, and free examples to well respected bloggers (ala Stephen Camp).

    The only product I've ever heard of that sold itself was post-it notes. Free samples to office managers and workers made the whole service industry instantly dependent :).

    I like the idea a lot and I'm really curious about it. Hopefully it's within my price range. I'd also be ordering the full size one.

    I like the integral laser idea a lot too. You could probably fit one powered by three watch batteries with a switch in a 1" by 3/8" diameter cylinder if you have room.
     
  15. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    What are the laws and junk on laser power, anyway? I have a 140 mW red laser, and it completely blows away any of the usual <5 mW lasers. You can shine the beam on the surface of a lit 60 watt bulb, and still see the dot on it. You never have to play "find the dot" with this thing. But it's also not hot enough to burn anything, unless you focus the beam down to a point.

    I really wish someone made a decent laser sight of comparable power.
     
  16. Sylvan-Forge

    Sylvan-Forge Member

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    Good old blued steel is nice :)

    .
     
  17. knivesharp

    knivesharp Member

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    Which one

    I normally carry a seecamp. Am confident with it, but want something more effective. Being a mgun dealer, I have been able to sample all the small entries. I have narrowed my search to the Rohrback 9mm or their new .45. Since the 45 is a couple of years away, I have settked on their 9mm. After viewing your site, I would select your 9mm micro over the rohrbach and send you a down payment immediately
     
  18. gazpacho

    gazpacho Member

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    Start with the shorty. Then skip the regular model and produce a double stack 5" barrel model.

    As far as the sights go on the shorty, I'd consider a guttersnipe channel with a big XS style front dot. Speed and ease of aiming is paramount in a pocket pistol. Superb accuracy is not.
     
  19. ExtremeSquared

    ExtremeSquared Member

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    I assume the reason the chamber can be tight on this one is that the round is fed straight in from behind, and is already lined up with the bore.
    See http://www.bobergengineering.com/video2.wmv
    Also I like the shorty, and vote for stainless.
     
  20. isher2000

    isher2000 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
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    Sorry, I'm too late for the poll but I do have a few comments if you're still hcecking this thread.

    1) Your original design is incredible as is and is the gun that you should initially offer in my opinion.

    2) For the die hard old school guys (I can say that since I'm 54) a steel frame model might be nice as a later option but not as the initial offering. Ditto the shorty and Micro guns.

    You envisioned this as a carry gun with a performance edge and that is something well worth delivering. To go steel frame initially would repeat the mistake that Kahr made in bringing their guns out in all steel design initially. I owned one an early all steel Kahr K9, it shot great and carried like a brick. I eventually traded it in on a polymer P9 and have never regretted that decision.

    I am a casual shooter but have done my share of LFI courses, CCW training and IDPA shoots.

    I have owned more than a few compact handguns Glock 19, Glock 23, Kahr K9, Kahr P9, and Kel-Tec P32.

    Also a fair number of service size pistols Colt Commander, Colt 1911 Series 70, Glock 24, Beretta 92, Beretta 96D, Beretta PX4, HK P7M13, Steyr GB, FNH Five-seveN, etc.

    After all that my CCW pick is a stock Kahr P9 with Heinie sights. It's light enough to carry and keep around when I need it and hits hard enough to be useful should I ever really need it, hopefully I never will.

    I'm considering upgrading to a Kahr TP40. The same grip size but moving up to a 4" barrel from the P9's 3 1/2" barrel to soak up the extra .40 S & W bounce and get a little better sight radius. I think many people that do CCW recognize that it's the grip you have trouble hiding when using an IWB holster not an extra 1/2 " of barrel.

    Having seen your design I think I'll hold onto the P9 for a while and see what comes of your project.

    If I were to be bold enough to suggest a direction it would be to do your intitial design 4" barrel, alloy frame and frame rail for a light or laser included. Then redo the same gun in .40 S&W.

    After that go where ever the market takes you.

    Best of luck, what you're working on looks great to me.
     
  21. ABBOBERG

    ABBOBERG Member

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    It may be hard to tell from the G26 overlay from my website, but the trigger on the G26 is about 0.40" lower than the XR9.

    By the way, I was going to update the website today to show a video of the Shorty in action, but my primary computer with my web files on it died today. I am looking for my backup disc so I can upload the video using my laptop, but I can't seem to find that right now. Needless to say, I have worked out the recoil mechanism for the Shorty and it now seems robust (after some tweaking). "Where did he put the spring?" you ask. Along the 8:00 position of the barrel as you point the gun forward. I had to move the locking lugs a little bit, but now there is room for the spring and a long, skinny guide rod. After I post the video, I will try to get detailed pics of the recoil mechanism on there too.

    Arne
     
  22. Loomis

    Loomis member

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    "is about 0.40" lower than the XR9"

    That would be a very good thing for you to advertize.
     
  23. ABBOBERG

    ABBOBERG Member

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  24. Josh Aston

    Josh Aston Member

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    What's the trigger like on these?
     
  25. ABBOBERG

    ABBOBERG Member

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    Smooth double-action only - a constant 6.5 lb - much like a S&W revolver.
    Stroke/reset: .40"
     
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