Which Caliber: First Bigger Rifle

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The Nikon Buckmasters are nice scopes for the money. My father in law has one. I got a manufacture refurbished Leupold VX1 3-9x40 this summer for 120 shipped from midway. That's the best scope under $200 I've ever looked through.

As for cartridge choice I was just looking at some bullets and load data between a 308 and a 6.5 creedmore. A 140 grain 6.5 Sierra game king and a 180 grain 308 Sierra game king have the same ballistic coeficient. Hodgdon's load data has the velocities for those two as identical so the only difference for practical hunting purposes as far as I can see is the 308 is putting 40 grains more lead on the target with probably a third more recoil. Recoil is a big deal to some but not others. I've been party to enough deer hunting tracking adventures that I've personally come to the conclusion to use the biggest gun you can comfortably and accurately shoot with the heaviest practical bullet for the caliber. I think light recoiling calibers make a lot of sense for people that do not shoot very much. I'm a big guy and shoot a lot so it's not much of a factor in my thinking.
 
the nice thing about 308...you have a whole host of wonderful choices off the shelf for most hunting.
but...when you get to reloading...aw lawd...fun loads? sure....some trailboss and 110 gr 30 carbine bullets...
you wanna hit a bear? you can load up 180-200 gr bullets.
it has an impressive list of weights and ranges that can do almost everything you need worldwide.
I love mine. I am sure you will yours.
 
As a .30-06 guy, the .308 is better for a general purpose gun. Ammo is cheaper and then you'll have more rifle options if you decide to upgrade.

6.5 creedmoor is enough gun for deer and blackbear if you go that route
 
Good Ol' Boy, you never defined what you mean by "longer range plinking." What distance are we talking? Lower-power fixed and variable scopes work just fine on working hunting rifles, but if you're wanting to "call shots" at 500, you're going to want something in the 10X range or better. Lesser quality glass is going to be more evident "way out there," too. $100 budget is going to be tough for a quality scope, even used.
 
I appreciate the info on the scopes guys.

Can somebody do me a favor and Google Nikon buckmaster 2 and tell me what the difference is in the between the Bm2 that everyone's selling for 129 and standard Nikon that Cabela's and sportsman's is selling for 99?

The only difference I can tell is the turret caps....
 
Legionnaire said:
Good Ol' Boy, you never defined what you mean by "longer range plinking." What distance are we talking? Lower-power fixed and variable scopes work just fine on working hunting rifles, but if you're wanting to "call shots" at 500, you're going to want something in the 10X range or better. Lesser quality glass is going to be more evident "way out there," too. $100 budget is going to be tough for a quality scope, even used.
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That's a fair question. 500yds would be the max and I'm just looking to hit steel at that distance. I'd like to be able to get some decent groups at 300 sub on paper.

Considering most of my "distance" shooting so far has been pinging steel with a red dotted AR at 1-200yds I consider what I'm looking for longer distance. We're definitely not talking precision shooting at 1000 or anything, at least not with my current optics budget, even if the rifle is capable.
 
One of my friends has a couple of Buckmasters on rifles I’ve helped him sight in. They are pretty decent. To my eyes though the Minox ZV 3 blows the Buckmasters out of the water. Everyone’s eyes are different but to me ZV-3 glass is comparable to a VX-2.
 
someguy2800 said:
A 140 grain 6.5 Sierra game king and a 180 grain 308 Sierra game king have the same ballistic coeficient. Hodgdon's load data has the velocities for those two as identical so the only difference for practical hunting purposes as far as I can see is the 308 is putting 40 grains more lead on the target with probably a third more recoil.
Click to expand...

Plugging in those calculations gains the .308 the approx. muzzle energy of a .22lr extra for that 30+ % increase in recoil. Where 6.5 really shines however is pushing lighter bullets like the 129gr to enjoy the approx. 25% reduction in wind drift over .308 which gives it a very real world practical advantage.


someguy2800 said:
I think light recoiling calibers make a lot of sense for people that do not shoot very much. I'm a big guy and shoot a lot so it's not much of a factor in my thinking.
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I shoot .50 cal and .30 cal regularly and at 6' 3", 250 I'm not exactly a featherweight. Size does not predict recoil sensitivity though, heck my oldest ran his first 5 rounds down the pipe of a .300 win mag when he was 8. 50 rounds of 30-06 at a sitting is as much as I've done on several occasions and I didn't care for it despite all the shooting I do. Having run a few rounds of 6.5 I can say it's a round I could shoot all day long with no bruising the next day.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
I appreciate the info on the scopes guys.

Can somebody do me a favor and Google Nikon buckmaster 2 and tell me what the difference is in the between the Bm2 that everyone's selling for 129 and standard Nikon that Cabela's and sportsman's is selling for 99?

The only difference I can tell is the turret caps....
Click to expand...

I can't be sure but I think the elevation and windage knobs are better on the Buckmaster II's. They have the best elevation and windage knobs (resettable to zero without tools and great click adjustments) I've ever used on a scope under $300. I use Leupold VX-1's now, but the Buckmaster II's don't give up anything in clarity to the Leupy VX-1's. They give up a slight amount of eye relief (not enough to worry about) and some field of view. That's it. The Buckmaster II's weigh 2 oz. more than my Leupy's as well, but they are still only 13 oz. which is very good for a 3-9x40 these days.
 
I think the biggest factor is how often a person shoots and how much recoil they are used to. If you shoot twice a year it's going to be tough to shoot a 300 win mag well. If you shoot it twice a month no big deal. For sure recoil wears you out but that's a concern for bench shooting not hunting. If it's a 90% range toy a 6.5 is a no brainer. If I'm buying it to shoot deer I'll take the extra 40 grains of bullet because I know what the result will be coming out the other side of the deer.
 
Skylerbone said:
Where 6.5 really shines however is pushing lighter bullets like the 129gr to enjoy the approx. 25% reduction in wind drift over .308 which gives it a very real world
Click to expand...

I still don't get it. If you step both down in weight Hornady shows .447 for there 165 grain SST and .485 for there 129 SST. Hornady shows the 308 being 100 fps faster in those bullet weights. I'm to lazy to plug it in but I don't see the 6.5 have any meaningful ballistic advantage at practical hunting ranges. If recoil is a factor or if we change the subject to non hunting bullets or factory ammo then I agree the 6.5 wins no question.
 
Some people that shoot regularly can’t handle heavy recoil.

someguy2800 said:
I think the biggest factor is how often a person shoots and how much recoil they are used to. If you shoot twice a year it's going to be tough to shoot a 300 win mag well. If you shoot it twice a month no big deal. For sure recoil wears you out but that's a concern for bench shooting not hunting. If it's a 90% range toy a 6.5 is a no brainer. If I'm buying it to shoot deer I'll take the extra 40 grains of bullet because I know what the result will be coming out the other side of the deer.[quote/]
Click to expand...
 
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Folks with a heavy caliber are going to shoot less but recoil in popular rifles can be improved to a reasonable degree.
1/2 is going to be some measures to reduce perceived recoil.

- Recoil Pad.
- Geometry/Ergonomics
- Weight / weight distribution.
- Muzzle attachments if they proceed.
- Shooting position

The other 1/2 is going to be physiological and will improve with some adjustment and perhaps some direction and coaching.
It is like deep tissue massage, some people are afraid but once you get to relax and embrace it then you loose that fear.

Like always, firearms and ballistics is a world of trade-offs. You want more momentum on the target, then you are going to have more recoil.

A different story is, if that is always needed. That is why one needs to choose calibers and loads accordingly.

The 308 is an easy to shoot, well balanced, poopular cartridge for what you want to do.
 
someguy2800 said:
I still don't get it. If you step both down in weight Hornady shows .447 for there 165 grain SST and .485 for there 129 SST. Hornady shows the 308 being 100 fps faster in those bullet weights. I'm to lazy to plug it in but I don't see the 6.5 have any meaningful ballistic advantage at practical hunting ranges. If recoil is a factor or if we change the subject to non hunting bullets or factory ammo then I agree the 6.5 wins no question.
Click to expand...
That's because people keep confusing the expectations of the creed with the Remington results compare the .260 to the .308 or the creed to the .300savage and it's a little more visible, THE biggest perk is the high bc/sd low recoil trade-off....at least to me anyways.
 
I don't mean to spin things off course to a caliber discussion now that the rifle has been chosen, and fwiw I think .308 is a fine choice for the OP as a hunting round. Where 6.5 earns its stripes is at distances beyond 200 or in windy conditions.

If someone shoots often then most of that shooting is likely to be practice for the hunt or recreational; with a chance to push the yardage, wind becomes a huge factor. Recoil reduction is simply a bonus as are the larger selection of high bc bullets.

As for penetration, the bullet will generally determine how much penetration is possible at a given velocity.
 
That's a good looking rifle, Ol' Boy, I've got a Hawke on one of my 30-06s. Now after the fact, Nikon discontinued the Buckmasters line several years ago. At that time it resided between ProStaff and Monarch whereas the relaunched BM2s are positioned below the ProStaff and are not of equal quality to the original line.
 
Looks good! I like it in a utilitarian sorta way. Most of my guns are wood stocked now, i keep feeling like i kinda NEED one of these all business rifles......

As an aside on the buckmasters....the new gens have caused enough confusion, that if you look carefully on ebay you can offten get the older buckmasters for new gen prices, or very close.

Ive bought a 3-9x40 for 100, and a 4.5-14x40 for 150 recently.
 
The axis is a nice and very strong action.
I saw on a hunting forum a guy who beded the budget stock and filled the back with rocktite and a steel rod to give it more strength on the grip.
Not a bad idea for a rifle one might beat and potentially fall with it. He also put a PVC YouTube on the back and fill with a bit of bird shot to balance the rifle and work as a dead blow weight.
Just some ideas to make the factory Tupperware budget stocks a bit more consistent. There was another thread here where another forum member fixed the SPS hogue stock that otherwise touches the barrel.
With simple improvements and a popular cartridge should give many years of enjoyment. There are also videos of DIY retrofits to tune down the axis 1 triggers otherwise there are some aftermarkets trigger and sear retrofit
units out there.
It is also a good idea to put a soft rubber wedge between the mag and the catch to keep it secured. otherwise magazines feed great and are very reliable.
Just a few things one might consider but not critical for everyone.
Congrats with your new rifle and I hope you enjoy every shot with it.
 
Figured I'd update this thread a little.

Got to finally sight her in yesterday. Gun ran fine and I really like the glass. Shot 60rds and would've shot more but we ran out of light.

I LIKE the 308. Recoil did nothing but put a smile on face, along with the boom. I found it about on par with my buddies '06. I'm definitely going to be going further down the bigger caliber rabbit hole in the future.

On accuracy, after actually shooting the thing I could really tell how heavy the trigger is. Best I was able to manage at 100yds was 3" groups. I could feel myself moving the gun ever so slightly when pulling the trigger. Shot my buddies second gen 308 , basically the same gun, with the accu-trigger and was shooting 1- 1.5" groups.

So, I took the advice someone mentioned earlier and ordered the Mcarbo trigger kit today.

I will relay my thoughts on the kit once I've shot with it in.
 
sure thing I have been looking to and those are some good rebates
enjoy the new rifle
 
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