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which cartridge will win: .458 SOCOM, .45 Bushmaster, .50 Beowulf, .499 LW

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by atek3, Oct 26, 2007.

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  1. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    Forgive me if this one has been hashed to death, but it seems like there are 4 cartridges that fulfill the same niche... Which cartridges are going to die out and which will be around in 5 years?

    thanks,
    atek3
     
  2. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    .50 Beowulf and .450 Bushmaster probably have the best chances, in my opinion.
     
  3. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    The LW is long gone, as much as I like my .50 Beowulf I think the .458 Socom will far outshine it in sales. AA decided to keep the .50 as a non-SAMMI cartridge so no one else builds uppers for it, but several people build the Socom uppers. I'm still not sure why Bushmaster decided to come out with another one, perhaps they believe they can beat out the Socom with marketing power.
     
  4. shuter

    shuter Member

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    For the long version of my opinion on this . . .

    see my post on my new .450 BM above. The .450 is a nice, simple straight-walled case that should last forever, from a strength standpoint (all it is is a cut down .284 Win case).

    I also like it over the .458 Socom because it uses bullets developed for the .454 Casull/.460 S&W that operate well in it's velocity range, and are proven big game bullets (like the Hornady XTP's).

    I guess the 300 grain HP's for the .45-70 fall into this range as well, and should work very well in the .458, too.

    I know Rock River chambers for the Socom, so that's good. But I doubt that any ammo manufacturer will step up and standardize the round as Hornady has done for the .450.

    Regardless, I think it'll come down to the .450 BM and the Socom, and those are 2 pretty awesome choices for a Thumper.

    see ya
     
  5. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    458 Socom will have more market share five years from now than any of the others.
     
  6. shuter

    shuter Member

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    What might you be basin' that on?

    You may be right, but I'm curious.
     
  7. biggameballs

    biggameballs Member

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    I dont know much about AR style rifles but why the heck dont they just make them in 454 instead of comming out with these wacky rounds. Honestly I may buy an AR if it were chambered in 454 but I would never buy one in one of these odd ball rounds. (well odd ball to us hunters anyways)
     
  8. shuter

    shuter Member

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    biggameballs, this is a ".454" . . .

    same bullets as the .454 uses. However, a rimmed cartridge, such as the .454 CASULL (if that's what you were referring to) creates problems for a semi-auto like the AR, in terms of reliable feeding.

    So, "oddball" is what you're stuck with if you want this kind of power (.454 Casull + about 25%, if that turns you on) in an AR-15.

    Believe me, I own .454 Casulls, .500 S&W's, a zillion .44 mags, .45 Colts, and I love .45-70's more than anything with gunpowder in it. However, I've never had as much fun with a firearm - with the possible exception of a couple .22 lr's, and a .17 HMR on jackrabbits - as I have with my .450 Bushmaster.

    It really is a "kick".

    see ya
     
  9. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    I am not opposed to any of the rounds, but I don't know if any one of them will "make it". My suspicion is that each will have it's adherents, and each will hang around, but none of them will ever have mass appeal. If I had to pick one, I think my vote would go to the Beowulf, but I am just not convinced that any of these cartridges are going to succeed long term.
     
  10. LoadedDrum

    LoadedDrum Member

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    Corbon factory loads the 458 SOCOM

    I like that it uses UNMODIFIED AR mags as opposed to needing a special follower.
     
  11. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Whichever is the most industry supported will win. Not really which one is most popular with consumers. Such things are still in the marketing/introduction stage of their product lives. What counts is who can get them out the most and the cheapest so they can become established. People will like that which is available and at the right price. This isn't a contest of which one actually performs better. They all hit hard. What weights on the consumer mind is availability long-term.


    .450 has Bushmaster behind it. .458 has Cor-Bon loading. Things like that help a lot.


    I'd say the one with the most abundant and lowest price uppers, and secondly the one with the most factory loadings will win in the long run.
     
  12. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    When RRA backed the 458 SOCOM and Cor-Bon made factory loads available for it, the stage was set (IMO) for the 458 to claw its way to top of the big-bore AR heap.

    Bushy may have its own chambering, but so far they've not managed to get factory ammo reasonably available nor reloading components/load data out on the street.
     
  13. shuter

    shuter Member

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    Don'ttread,

    .450 also has Hornady loading AND producing brass for it.

    Having said that, I'll probably get a SOCOM in addition tot he .450. If one Thumper is good, 2 have to be better!

    Plus, Rock River makes nice AR's, and I can sling 500gr bullets with the .458. I still think the .450 BM will be around longer in the end,though.

    We'll see.
     
  14. LeibstandarteAdH

    LeibstandarteAdH Member

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    .45 bushy

    .50 beowolf to me is just a novelty, its reverse tapered rim and all.
     
  15. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    The .458 SOCOM is much more versatile than the others. It's basically a semi-auto .45-70. I like that you can load up 600-grain bullets for sub-sonic shooting. Basically a suppressable sledgehammer.

    The choice to go with .454" bullets in the Bushmaster was a dumb one in my opinion. That drops it out of the realm of large, dangerous game usage in my book.
     
  16. cat_IT_guy

    cat_IT_guy Member

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    I cant guess which one will do the best, as I have no experience with any of them, however, I suspect that none of them will ever gain a whole lot of popularity, as ammo will be too expensive for the high volume shooting we like to do with our ARs. I would imagine that even with reloading it just wouldnt be worth it, although I guess the .450 would be pretty easy to do since it is a straight walled case.

    Maybe one or more of these cartridges will surprise me, but right now I just see them as novelty shooting/hunting rigs.

    Dont get me wrong, I love playing with new cartridges, but I just dont see these really catching on.
     
  17. mrsig

    mrsig Member

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    Do the Bushmaster and SOCOM both use unmodified mags?

    - Sig
     
  18. shuter

    shuter Member

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    Eldon, would you really use an AR-based gun

    for "large and DANGEROUS game"? I know I wouldn't! Now, I would use my .450 BM on any Elk that ever walked.

    see ya
     
  19. bbshriver

    bbshriver Member

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    I'm hoping the beowulf, since that's what I got. To me it definitely has the most novelty appeal, based soley on the .50 part of it.
     
  20. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    I don't see why not. They use them against AK-47 wielding Muslim extremists. Don't see why you couldn't use one on a grizzly bear in an appropriate caliber.
     
  21. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    The .50 Beowulf has a good sized following, so I expect it will always be around.

    However, I have to agree that CorBon's support of the .458 SOCOM (and the fact that it uses the same bullets as a popular caliber like .454 Casull) will end up giving it market superiority.

    I expect the .45 Bushmaster will go the way of the .45GAP primarily because Bushmaster is owned by a large company and as such unless it takes off like a rocket, they'll end up abandoning it pretty quickly when the bean counters say drop it.

    Keep in mind that one of the things pushing these types of cartridges is the threat of a .50 ban.
     
  22. shuter

    shuter Member

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    A couple points:

    Zund, the Socom does NOT use the same bullets as the .454.

    Eldon, no way in hell I'd knowingly go after a brown bear, or any other dangerous critter with a gas-operated autoloader. That's why God made bolt and lever guns.

    These are fun guns, elk guns, deer guns, and maybe people guns.

    To each his own.
     
  23. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    Well seeing as the people they are typically used on pose much more of a threat than any animal, I don't see much logic behind that. If it's good enough for Marines to trust their lives to, it's a good enough system for me. People say how much the AR sucks all the time, but truth is it's an excellent, reliable weapon.

    Hell, I've had my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun tie up on me too. It's not like lever guns are incapable of jamming. Bolt guns I can't fault, but I'd feel alot better being able to rattle off 10-rounds on a charging brown without taking my finger off the trigger than I would trying to cycle a bolt and work through my three or four round magazine.
     
  24. zinj

    zinj Member

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    Comparing any of these big-bore AR cartridges to dangerous game cartridges, say a .458 Win Mag, is a bit like comparing the .30 Carbine to a .30-06. Same caliber, a world's difference in power.
     
  25. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    The .458 SOCOM has about the same performance as a .45-70. I would consider a .45-70 to be fine for dangerous game. It's plenty adequate for just about any dangerous game in the US. Dangerous game does not necessarily imply you're going to Africa.
     
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