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Which of these three guns for a new shooter?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Hal, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. Hal

    Hal Member

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    Please, limit it to these three only:

    AR in .22lr
    AR in .233
    Remington 12 ga. 870.

    Brand new shooter with no experience at all with a firearm.
    None.


    Has never fired a gun before in his life.

    The gun my be used for home defense by the man, his wife, and possibly young son - age not known.
    Presumadly, the wife and son have never fired a firearm either.
     
  2. Ramone

    Ramone Member

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    I'd go with the AR in .223/5.56

    every year, thousands of people who have never shot a rifle go into USMC bootcamp, and come out the other end as Rifle Experts.

    It's enough gun, but not too much gun, for just about anyone.

    I would give some thought to a carbine in 9MM for the above circumstance, as the price of ammo will encourage practice.
     
  3. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Member

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    Of your specific scenario, I'd lean towards the 223 AR. Though I am personally in the camp that thinks a 12 gauge is better, it's recoil can intimidate many leading to them practicing less. The 223 AR essentially has little recoil but is still a very capable round. With little recoil, hopefully they will practice more. In fact, I would strongly encourage them to save up and attend some formal training as soon as they can.
     
  4. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    I don't know, sheep. My friend's little sister was 19 first time she went shooting, and she chewed through 3.5" magnum shells out of my pump. Personally, though, I think the .223 is a better SD platform, and also probably better for a new shooter.

    I'd give consideration to a 9mm pistol instead, though. Cheaper than a .223 rifle, and gives the option of carrying if he'd like. Also easier to store out of sight but with quick access.
     
  5. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    I agree with the AR in .223 - If they enjoy it and want to benefit from lower cost practice they can get a .22LR later... if they start with the .22LR and do not like it the resale may be a little more of a loss and say what you want about shot placement I would rather have .223 in a life or death over .22LR

    As far as the 870 goes... Shotguns to me are pretty specific tools and require quite a bit more skill than an AR to be good with them. Just the shooting of the gun requires more "fortitude"?
     
  6. JAshley73

    JAshley73 Member

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    Some would argue that they are more versatile. It's hard to hit a flying target with a rifle. But you are correct, they require a DIFFERENT skill-set for sure.

    To give my opinion (I hope it doesn't stink :) ) to the OP, I'd ask the first time buyers, what they think would be more fun - pistol, rifle, or shotgun shooting. I say ask about the fun factor, because if its also fun for them to shoot, hopefully they'll do it more often and be more proficient, than they would have been had they just bought a gun and left it in the closet.

    I would also advise against a .22lr if they would consider their first purchase for defensive purchases. That can come later, after they've gotten their feet wet, and want to save money on plinking...

    Just my $.02...
     
  7. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    22LR.............with out a doubt. You have to walk before you can run!
     
  8. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    With this information arising, my vote changes to a pump-shotgun.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  9. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    Budget is going to play a big part in that discussion. A Marlin Model 60 and a S&W Sporter can be less than a Colt AR.

    Also a big factor is training range availability. I "think" all our indoor ranges allow .22LR and birdshot, but only two allow rifle fire.
     
  10. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Big reason I don't have a rifle and I do have a shotgun, even though I advocate rifle for SD.
     
  11. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    22 LR, been training newbies and youguns for decades.
    Get the basics first, then they can graduate to a SD/HD weapon.
     
  12. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    A lot of people want their first gun to be good for SD/HD. It's often their justification for getting a gun.
     
  13. almherdfan

    almherdfan Member

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    I thought it was pretty much canon that new shooters started with 22LR. 22LR will suffice for HD, if the shooter has the mind-set, training and the correct tool.
     
  14. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    Agreed. I am surprised so many non-.22LR advocates so far.

    Besides, a .22LR out of a carbine is a lot more potent than out of a pistol, and you can send a lot of (well-aimed) bullets downrange in a hurry! I would vote .22lr
     
  15. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Well then I ain't canon. Never owned a .22 LR and never will. I've started a few people out on .40 S&W and they handled it just fine.
     
  16. Steel Talon

    Steel Talon Member

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    Ist time owner/shooter 22lr is the road to take. Cheap lots of fun will always be a favorite in your gun safe and will see regular use.As you grow and as you teach others.

    That 870 will make a fine bird gun if your a hunter. and can be used as a home defence howitzer.Shoolting magnum loads at the range will wear you out pretty quick...

    .223 is a good cartridge, ever popular AR platform has many mods etc. available to move into a field of interest for you
     
  17. Hal

    Hal Member

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    Budget is no barrier for the firearm.
    Budget for ammo is unknown - but - it could play a factor.
    Buyer's access to a range is unknown.
    Buyer's willingness to seek proper training is iffy. My gut feeling is - no.

    Assume for the sake of this discussion, this will be the buyer's only firearm and the choices are limited to only these three - so while a handgun in 9mm would make a good choice, it's not an option.
     
  18. youngda9

    youngda9 member

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    An AR is the LAST firearm you should choose for the above person. Amazing that so many people can't think beyond their noses.

    Shotgun is 1/3-1/2 the price and much more effective.
     
  19. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    You're missing out.... big time
     
  20. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I say the 12 gauge.
    The reasons are:
    1) One can shoot mild or wild (inexpensive low-brass or full-magnum) loads
    2) One can shoot small or big (shot-sizes)
    3) One can shoot many, a little, or one (birdshot, buckshot, rifled slugs)
    4) One can have several different barrels for your liking which can be changed within one minute, or less
    5) With the 870, you can get parts just about anywhere
    6) One can purchase from an infinite array of aftermarket modification parts if they happen to get tired of the OEM gun and they eventually would like some changes
    7) The gun will appreciate in value, if it is well-cared for
     
  21. tacxted

    tacxted Member

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    I want to say 870, but if budget is no barrier for the gun I would say ar 223. Maybe this person wants to add all of the tactical suff on later. Im saying it would be funner for a new shooter to cusomize an ar223 over a 870.

    I feel the 22lr would not be enough fun over a mag dump with an ar223 or blowing up pumpkins with an 870.

    Its about new shooters learning about the fun side of firearm owner ship. my 2 cents
     
  22. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    Hard to answer the OP's question without more input. For no intention to train, no intention to practice, and pure HD, the pump 870 shotgun would be the best choice of the 3.

    I take it you're not planning on having kids and grandkids and enjoying shooting with them. You're being very shortsighted about the best way to introduce youngsters and other non-firearms owners to shooting, but possibly that doesn't matter to you.
     
  23. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    So, in your opinion it is easier to shoot a 12g shotgun than an AR?

    Thats the great thing about opinions... they can differ.

    In MY opinion (And experience with two teens who started shooting when they were very young) the AR platform is hands down the easiest to learn on.
     
  24. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    AAH I've shot a couple .22 LRs. About as fun as a trip to the dentist, IMO. Especially the revolver. Now that the OP says assume this will be the buyer's only firearm, I have to say .22 LR is not a good idea if the buyer's goal is HD. If there are no plans to get a .223 or a shotgun, then I'd have to recommend getting something with enough power off the bat.

    Youngda, whether the shotgun is better or worse is not very clear. I actually think the carbine makes a better HD platform than a shotgun, for several reasons. I'll agree with you on price, but as has been mentioned by the OP its not a factor. I would love for you to enlighten me on how I "don't see past my own nose". I'd also like to hear how a rifle is so much worse for a new shooter, when (as has been said in this thread) many people join the Army/Marines with no previous firearm experience and get taught on the .223 M16/M4 just fine.

    If someone is timid, I can borrow my Dad's .22s and start them off with that. However, I'd rather start them off on a BB gun and then go to a 9mm. The first gun I ever fired was a 9mm, my friend and his sister first shot my .40, and my Mom first shot a .38 revolver. None of us were turned off by these. You are right, though, I don't plan on having kids.

    Like I said, I've shot the .22 before, and my experience is that it is less fun than either a BB gun or a 9mm.
     
  25. Hal

    Hal Member

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    Doesn't that sort of contradict your answer about the shotgun over a .22?
    I did mention the buyer is a first time gun owner with no experience.

    I'm curious here about one thing.
    Why the change?
    Shotguns have no real sights. Just a front bead.
    Also - 870's are prone to short stroking in the hands of newbies.
    Those two factors would seem to make the 870 an unwise choice for someone that's not going to go through any real training.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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