Which powder for 9mm and 45acp?

[Hamish]

I use Titegroup for both 9mm and .45 ACP. I just started with the .45 ACP so I don't have velocity data yet, but with the 9mm and 115gr bullets (several kinds and brands) I average about 1100 fps.

Titegroup meters quite well in the Lee Auto Disk Pro, and I also use it for .40 S&W with great succes. Overall, I like this powder quite a bit, find it reliable and versitile, and have put several pounds of it through a Lee Auto Disk Pro without any significant issues.

 

[jim243]

Win 231


Jm

 

[zdc1775]

Ok, so it seems like the overall consensus is either HP-38/Win 231 or Unique. Seeing how the LGS doesn't have Unique right now I think I will try HP-38.

Thanks for the help.

 

[7mmb]

HP38/231 will work well in both and there is a lot of data, especially under the 231 moniker, remember they are the same powder and data is interchangable. It meters very well too. I use Universal for both. It's cleaner and a little slower, not as fine grained but still meters well.

 

[1SOW]

For your speeds and calibers, check out Vihtavuori n320.
In cost per rd it's about 1+ cent more per cartridge, but runs clean and has a good load range.

Win 231 @ 1000 fps for 9mm Luger will burn very sooty. At about 1070 and higher it'll clean up quite a bit.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Ok, so it seems like the overall consensus is either HP-38/Win 231 or Unique. Seeing how the LGS doesn't have Unique right now I think I will try HP-38.

Thanks for the help.

4.0gr HP-38 under a 158gr LSWC for the .38 Special.
5.5gr HP-38 under any 230gr bullet for the .45 Auto.

 

[bubbacrabb]

Win 231 is a great powder. I own a lot of it. I bought all I could afford of 231, Unique, and h335 with the upcoming election. I still think Unique is the best in 45. I really like unique in 38 also.

 

[hentown]

I use AA#5, exclusively, for .45acp and 9mm reloading. Meters well; works great for both moderate and full-power loads.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Certaindeaf, comparison picture below shows flattened small ball powder W231/HP-38 with flake powders Unique and Promo (I have been using Promo with Red Dot load data). Unique is larger than Bullseye flakes and both Unique and Promo charge weights vary up to .2+ gr (Promo will vary even more than Unique). The comparison was done on my newer Pro Auto Disk (I have three). Interestingly, when I used my 17 year old Pro Auto Disk, my weight variation decreased with even large flake Promo, so I have the older Pro Auto Disk dedicated for Promo.

Also, note that W231/HP-38 has shiny coating on the surface. This coating seems to coat the Pro Auto Disk sliding surfaces and lubricate parts. I always recommend W231/HP-38 to break-in new Pro Auto DIsk (about 50 or so cycles and actions start to get coated/lubricated. I never clean my Pro Auto Disk surfaces, just wipe off excess powder with paper towel. With W231/HP-38, the shiny surface you see on disks is not wear, just shiny lubricating coating from powder.

Excellent. Thanks

 

[Slamfire]

Bullseye will work great in both applications. A load around 3.8 to 4.0 grains Bullseye with a 200 gr H&G 68 type bullet is extremely accurate in the 45 ACP. W231/HP38 works very well in both cartridges.

[SIZE="3"]Walther P5  3.4" barrel			
			
					
125 LRN .356" 4.0 grs Bullseye  Lot 827 (60's/70's) Mixed cases WSP OAL 1.10"
	28-Jun-09	T = 93 °F	
		
Ave Vel =	1072	 	 	
Std Dev =	22.44		 	
ES =	107.4		 		
High =	1145		 		
Low =	1037		 	
N =	32		 		
					
					
	 				
125 LRN .356" 4.0 grs Bullseye  1998&2005 mixed lot Mixed cases WSP OAL 1.10"
	20-Jun-09	T = 90 °F			
					
Ave Vel =	1038	 			
Std Dev =	8.48				
ES =	20.71				
High =	1049				
Low =	1029				
N =	8				

125 LRN .356" 4.1grs W231 Lot 8UB9 Mixed cases WSP OAL 1.10"	
	20-Jun-09	T = 90 °F			
					
Ave Vel =	956.1	 			
Std Dev =	23.57				
ES =	71.09				
High =	998.1				
Low =	927				
N =	7

[ATTACH=full]620262[/ATTACH]	


						
Kimber Custom Classic 				
						
200 LSWC 5.6 grs W231 Mixed cases Fed 150		11-Sep-05	
T = 88 °F	

Ave Vel =	854					
Std Dev =	21.21					
ES	87.61					
High	907.1					
Low	819.5					
N =	32					
						
						
200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases CCI300 11-Sep-05	
OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"	
T = 88 °F	

Ave Vel =	738.9					
Std Dev =	10.34					
ES	37.98					
High	755.8					
Low	717.8					
N =	32					
						
						
200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP  21-Jun-06	
OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"	
T = 97 °F	

Ave Vel =	748.2					
Std Dev =10.86					
High	763.2					
Low	721.7					
N =	22					
[ATTACH=full]620263[/ATTACH]	[/SIZE]

 

[zdc1775]

How well does Bullseye meter?

 

[RandyP]

Several great choices out there - I happened to start reloading using Win 231/HP-38 and for the 4 calibers I reload I have not yet found a reason to search for anything else. It's not very expensive and it meters very well in my Lee dispensers. It has a lot of published load data.

Not saying my choice is the 'best', but it works for me to create the ammo I want and I enjoy the simplicity using only one powder offers.

 

[LiveLife]

How well does Bullseye meter?

Bullseye meters pretty well in my Pro Auto Disk with less than .1 gr variance charge-to-charge but not as well as W231/HP-38. Having said that, Bullseye can produce more accurate loads than W231/HP-38 but produces more snappy recoil for me.

 

[Trent]

Plus another for Unique.

 

[floydster]

I tried many different powders for my pistols over the years and I still come back to Bullseye

 

[mike.h]

Bullseye

 

[hentown]

So, OP, what do you know now, that you didn't know before you started this thread??

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I'd go with Unique or Universal for both. I load Unique in 9mm and 40 S&W and its always worked great.

 

[zdc1775]

Not much hentown, just a little more confused.

 

[hentown]

That's the way threads like this always go. If you ask a question about what somebody uses on a forum like this, you'll get eleventy-zillion preferences. You'd do just as well just picking a powder at random. I use ball powders, when possible, for easy metering.

 

[LiveLife]

So, OP, what do you know now, that you didn't know before you started this thread??

Not much hentown, just a little more confused.

Maybe this will help with your lead 9mm/45ACP powder selection.

For me, I use W231/HP-38/Unique/Universal as the line I draw between faster burning pistol powders good for target loads and slower burning pistol powders for full-power loads. Here's a powder burn rate chart for reference - http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

Slower burning powders usually need to be used at high-to-max load data to generate consistent chamber pressures for tighter shot groups. When I conduct powder workup with slower powders, I often see accuracy trends that improve as the test loads approach the max charge and accuracy is poor-to-fair at start-to-mid range load data and loads burn dirtier.

Faster burning powders like W231/HP-38 will produce more consistent chamber pressures even at lower powder charges and produce very accurate target loads at mid-to-high range load data (powders such as Bullseye, Red Dot/Promo, Clays, Titegroup, WST, N320, W231/HP-38 etc.). Some faster burning powders will start to produce accuracy trends even at start charge and most will produce good-to-very good accuracy trends at mid-to-high range/max load data that are cleaner burning.

To me, Unique/Universal are "medium" burn rate pistol powders with characteristics that meet both the faster and slower burning powders to produce accurate target loads and full-power loads. Unique doesn't meter well for some powder measures. Many claim they switched to Universal for better metering. I have used Universal for 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP and prefer the faster burning W231/HP-38 for lighter target loads. For range practice/plinking loads, most reloaders I know do not use max loads and faster burning powders produce accurate target loads while using less powder (4-5+ gr vs 5-6+ gr) that will lower the cost of reloading.


IMO, bullet-to-barrel fit/seal is crucial for lead bullets to produce consistent chamber pressures that results in accuracy and reduced leading in the barrel. At mid-to-high range load data, faster burning powders build high enough chamber pressures quicker to bump the bullet base to deform/obturate with the barrel to seal the high pressure powder ignition gas. Here's more on leading in reference to powder burn rate - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

Another source of leading that can be traced to the components of the load is the mismatch of the powder burn rate to pressure generated by the load. Many years ago Elmer Keith used to write about the "balance point" of a given powder; the range of pressures at which that powder delivered smooth uniform ballistics

Basically this boiled down to fast powders for light target loads (e.g. Bullseye, W231, HP-38, AA #2), medium burners for standard pressure loads (like Unique, Universal Clays, AA #5), medium slow powders for +P loads (powders like HS-7, Blue Dot, AA #7) and slow powders for full-house magnum loads (like W296, H110, 2400 and AA #9).

I hope this helped.

 

[Uniquedot]

Here's a powder burn rate chart for reference

Perhaps if he needs or wants an accurate burn rate chart he should turn to the powder manufacturer of the powder he wants to use as that hodgdon chart is way off the mark.

 

[jfrey]

I started off using Unique and was satisfied with the loads I got. On a suggestion of a reloading friend, I changed to WSF and like it much better. Meters very well through my Dillon powder measure. Load drops are right on the money. Unique will give you +_.1 or .2 sometimes. No big deal when I load .45 Colt ammo. For 9mm you want what you drop to be consistent. .45ACP the same way.

 

[Uniquedot]

Here is a more accurate chart.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf

 

[LiveLife]

I do realize powder burn rates are "relative" and comparison charts should be used as a reference guide.

Kinda interesting that the chart has W231/HP-38 as faster burning than Titegroup, Red Dot/Promo and E3.

Really?