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Which school of thought do you fall into re: hunting w/o permission?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, Oct 9, 2009.

?

Which theory do you subscribe to?

  1. A

    172 vote(s)
    86.9%
  2. B

    17 vote(s)
    8.6%
  3. C

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  4. D

    8 vote(s)
    4.0%
  5. E

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. PA Dave

    PA Dave Member

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    I have to stay with A. Regardless of the law, someone else's land is not my sandbox to play in unless they invite me in or say yes when I ask. I can't find a logical reason why the activity of hunting should be exempt from the concept of personal property...it isn't mine. I didn't work for it, pay for it, or inherit it, so what possible right would I have to hunt, hike, bike, camp, or do whatever on it? Honestly, I can't understand anything but the A answer. We take weeks to scout, plan, map, and prepare, but don't feel it necessary to take a few minutes to ask permission well in advance of the season?
     
  2. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    That is pretty much the way it is from Van Horn to The Pass. The hill country is a bit different--
     
  3. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Around here, there are still ghost towns. Not state parks or museums, but towns that people abandoned 100 years ago.

    Some are being repopulated as cabins, some are still true ghost towns. Sometimes, someone owns a place but hasn't fixed it up. They plan to, but haven't yet. Generally they'll post it. Other places are abandoned. The deed says something on it, somewhere, I'm sure, but the owners have been dead for generations.

    Situations like that are why Idaho requires the land to be posted for it to be off-limits.

    I wouldn't hunt on land that was obviously in use. But that's not the whole story here.
     
  4. Gadzooks Mike

    Gadzooks Mike Member

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    Can I come over to your house and have a picnic with my friends if you don't have a fence around your yard?

    If you leave your keys in your car, can I take it for a ride without asking?

    NO you can't hunt on land that belongs to someone else.
     
  5. federalfarmer

    federalfarmer Member

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    Wow! Just back here after a long day at work, and after reading your response's some of you need to learn what private property is! :banghead:

    You can not track an animal because you want to, you can not be just scouting around. A fence and a sign mean NEVER without prior consent.

    YES you would get shot!
     
  6. federalfarmer

    federalfarmer Member

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    No, I do not want to shoot anyone. I can imagine that even justified that sticks with you forever mentally.

    Aside from Whom you protect, private property is second. Without private ownership of land our economic system does not work.

    Sorry you all really took me by surprize with justifications for trespassing.
     
  7. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I find it ironic that someone spouting out justifications for MURDER is incensed and accusing others justifying trespass.


    Please enlighten me RAMBO How is this supposed to work? You see someone you don't know on your land what do you do?

    1.Shoot first then try to find out who you MURDERED?

    2.Find out who they are and then execute em in cold blood?

    3.Shoot em with a rifle a couple hundred yards away and let the body lie?

    4. Pontificate about being all ultra libertarian tough guy on the interweb and do none of the above in real life because you know you'll get to spend the rest of your days learning to enjoy the finer points of anal rape in state prison"

    Lord I wonder if your meter reader knows his life is in peril if he comes to check the water usage and you turn out to not be at work. What about folks who genuinely get lost in the wilderness and are looking for help? You gonna be a great Samaritan my shooting them in the back like some despotic third world gang member?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  8. slabuda

    slabuda Member

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    The trouble I have I grew up with private land being fenced. Not all fenced land here is private. You are supposed to see a sign or an orange post I think every 600 ft or something like that. I get nervous crossing fences when I dont see an orange post. As much open land that is here its next to impossible to do constant maintenance on fence posts and lots of them are rusted. I always think what if the paint has gone away leaving the rust. Next thing I got bullets flying over my head.


    ArmedBear, What do you do with fenced land where you dont see orange posts?
     
  9. SHvar

    SHvar Member

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    I live in PA, I hear of many cases every year with hunters here roaming onto land they are not welcome, restricted properties, high security areas (nuclear power plants on islands which get them arrested, and can get them shot dead), private properties, even into housing developments which gets them arrested. Dont ask me what gets into these ignoramous every year when its deer season. If I remember right you need permission from the property owner or you can be arrested, and fined, possibly worse.
     
  10. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    Federalfarmer, I do know what private property is. And, while I do respect your rights to your property, I don't see any justification for an attitude where you state that you'll shoot any hunter/trespasser who you find in your woods/fields/waterways.

    Your posts in this thread represent the attitude that I think the anti-gun movement fears most about the gun-owning community. While I hate to seem like I'm personally targeting you, I can't help but feel that you are either posturing from the safety of your keyboard, or you are on the verge of being a violent sociopath.

    You speak of the apparent evils of trespassing, and then use it as a justification for cold-blooded murder. That's about as backwards as I can imagine this conversation being. As far as I'm concerned --and I certainly don't make decisions around here-- you seem to have a solid case of bloodlust here. Are you just looking for some reason to shoot someone?

    I've carried a gun for many years in a professional capacity, working in a violent and unfriendly area, and I always look for ways to NOT shoot someone... maybe you and I are just different on this level?



    Krochus, thanks for saving me the trouble of typing that portion of my response!

    And, Federalfarmer, I agree with the importance of private property rights. But, while I'd support you defending your home, I am in clear disagreement with your statement that you'd be justified for killing someone who happened to be found walking around on your 'back 40'.

    Are you planning to shoot the neighbor's kid if he wanders onto your land while playing in the woods? If so, I suppose we'll see your name in the news before too long.
     
  11. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Wandering onto the wrong land can in fact get you killed and not always by the landowner (and possibly even on your own land). In the 30s,40s and 50s it might be moonshiners now it might be marijuana growers or meth cookers.
     
  12. 3pairs12

    3pairs12 Member

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    ^^^ That's a very good point.
     
  13. rino451

    rino451 Member

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    This is the most ridiculous statement. With that logic, just because I have my garage or front door open, you're right to c'mon in andmake yourself at home. You SERIOUSLY believe that this "theory" has merit?
     
  14. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Honestly, I assume that fenced=private, and I investigate further.

    Some fenced land is BLM rangeland or even a WMA. A map generally clears that up. Otherwise, if it's fenced, I look around for any indication of whose it might be.

    But... If it's in the middle of public land, say surrounded by NF or BLM, I don't work as hard, because it will be posted, at least IME. Most fences are leftovers from the past, if they're on public land. If there's a gate, I leave it as I found it.

    All of that said, I have had friends who were assaulted by armed ranch thugs, er, security, when they were hunting on public land. One hunter pulled out a map and told the guys they'd better get the hell out of there NOW, or he'd press assault charges. That was along the Mexican border, though, not here. That's a whole other weird world down there.

    So it does help to have a map, sometimes. And doing the right thing doesn't mean you'll never have any trouble.

    It doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution. If there's some really great-looking hunting spot and I'm not sure, I'd probably go down the the county and figure out who owns it. GPS has made that a lot easier than it once was.

    I'd rather not get shot, as you say.:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  15. android

    android Member

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    Gee, with that theory, you could get to:

    Well the woman was just walking around in a cute dress, she didn't say she didn't want to be raped. She could have forked out a few bucks for a burka, they're not that expensive after all.

    Whatever happened that very basic rule my parents taught me?? "If it doesn't belong to you, don't touch it."
     
  16. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    I am one that will find the owner and ask to hunt. Nothing worse than being on a piece of land you have know right to be on or walk up on the guy that does. Do your home work first, might find a real deal thats all legal and full of deer. Most owners also have photos of there land to help with there boundries.
     
  17. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    OK, I'm pretty well convinced that my moral compass was off - adopting theory "A" now; thanks all for the good discussion.
     
  18. bpl

    bpl Member

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    I'll admit I didn't read the entire six pages of the thread. I didn't vote either. Here in PA, if you do not want hunters on your property, you are required by law to post the perimeter every so many feet, and the posted signs must contain your name, address, and phone number.

    There are a lot of parcels of public lands, ie. state game lands, state parks and state forests and parts of the Allegheny National Forest that have small parcels of private land intermixed. It would be quite easy to wander onto private land accidentally in many places. Otherwise, if you find a hunter on your unposted land, you can certainly ask them to leave, but you cannot procecute them legally unless they refuse to leave after being asked.

    Also, there are lots of Hillbilly-types on rural PA who feel that they are entitled to hunt such and such land because they hunted it as kids, their daddy hunted it and their granddaddy hunted it, etc. and they don't care if its owned by some rich guys down in Philadelphia. Those rich guys were probably responsible for driving 'ol farmer Johnson bankrupt so he had to sell that land anyway!

    We have posted our land in compliance with the law.
     
  19. shiftyer1

    shiftyer1 Member

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    although I don't agree with shoot first ask later when it comes to trespassing, you also have to consider other circumstances. Heres a personal example, my mothers house has been broken into 3 times in 2 years also things dissappear from the yard from time to time. This spring someone in HUNTING cammo shot up her house around lunch time. The sheriff has been called everytime and a report made.

    She lives in a heavily wooded area with TONS of deer, the shots were assumed to be from poachers. Sooo if your stalking (sneaking) thru the woods with a gun... are you hunting or checkin out the house for the next break in. Are you planning to rob her now and brought the gun because now someones home? Or are you after the big buck that comes to eat in the backyard in the evening? After all thats happened mom's scared but has stated " i'll be damned if they'll scare me off." I don't know if she'll shoot but it wouldn't surprise me.

    This is just one reason not to KNOWINGLY trespass. The owner doesn't know your there and could possibly interperate your actions to be something totally different.

    I was raised in Minnesota and also have been shot at while deer hunting on my families land by someone who just decided it looked like a good spot to hunt. Another good reason to ask permission first. Accidents can and will happen.
     
  20. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    In other words, if you are on property on a Friday late afternoon that you have been given authority to hunt on, and you shoot a nice TEN-POINT BUCK, and it runs a bit further than the property you KNOW you can hunt on, and now it MIGHT be on someone else's land, you are going to go back home, and wait until Monday morning when the town office opens to find out just who owns that land that you didn't want to step onto?

    Oh, and it is all in the middle of nowhere, so there are no houses within miles. But, that land the buck is now on is DEFINATELY NOT on the land you have permission to hunt.

    Please explain what you would do.

    Please be honest.
     
  21. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Several things show up in this thread, not the least being the sort of wild-eyed exaggerations which have no bearing on reality.

    Look: State laws about access to land vary a lot. Local custom varies a lot. Again, there's no "One size fits all," whether law, custom or morality.

    IOW, save the snark and sarcasm. It wastes bandwidth and doesn't help the discussion.

    Again, I respect fences and "no trespassing" signs, as do most honest people. That's no big deal. It's just common courtesy; I don't even need laws to behave that way.

    But what difference does it make to anybody if I--or anybody else--hunts across unfenced land where the owner hasn't been there for forty years? For that matter, I know of three different sections of land where the owner hasn't been there since the 1930s. That seems to me to be a different situation from currently-used but unfenced land. And that gets us to what was posted here about Idaho's laws about signs. IOW, what I do in my back country would be fully legal in Idaho, regardless of any legal issue in Texas or elsewhere.

    There's no single common "right way" in this...
     
  22. shiftyer1

    shiftyer1 Member

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    Inspecter.... In MN I have always been under the impression that it's illegal to chase a wounded deer on someones land without asking. I know it is here in tx. BUT I bet at least 85% look for the buck for at least a little bit.

    To me it's ethical to recover your animal. I THINK most landowners would give permission to recover it as long as the property is the same as you found it. But thats not hunting on someones land w/o permission. If you hunt that area frequently knowing the neighbors sure wouldn't hurt.

    I think Art said it best LOCAL CUSTOM VARIES ALOT
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  23. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    What difference does it make if you enter a vacant house where the owner hasn't been there for years? It's still breaking and entering.

    And how do you know he hasn't leased the hunting to someone else?

    If you want to hunt on the land, look up the owner's address at the tax assessor's office and contact him. Ask him what he would charge to allow you to hunt. That's just common courtesy.
     
  24. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Since you have anticipated that a buck you shoot on land where you can hunt might run onto someone else's land, go to the tax assessor before the season opens. Obtain the names and addresses of the surrounding land owners and contact them before you shoot the deer. Ask if you can track a wounded deer onto their property.

    There is no excuse for trespassing on private property.
     
  25. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    No, YOU would have to do that.

    In my state, I can hunt wherever I want as long as I am not on posted land and as long as I am such-and-such a distance from a road and from any buildings.;)
     
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