Which steel .380?
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HisSoldier
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Rex B,
I have a Llama "Especial" which has the stupid rib, see photo below. The other one is on it's way and is a later version with plastic thumb shelf grips. (What liberal moron decided a thumb shelf made a handgun a "sporting" model, and worthy of importation?) The one in the picture was made in 1966, has wood grips, and to list the poor quality aspects will take a while. The barrel lower lugs were .020" too high, so the link took all the lockup pressure. The barrel bushing has .010" slop on the outside where it slips into the slide and .020" slop around the barrel! I welded up and remilled the lower lugs. The hammer and tang both had hand finished off kilter edges, very noticeable. I've worked them over too. It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. This gun, though it looks nice in the photo, looked like it was made in Pakistan when I took it apart! I've used it as my gunsmithing project, heh heh. I wish I could find one like yours. That's nice!
I have a Llama "Especial" which has the stupid rib, see photo below. The other one is on it's way and is a later version with plastic thumb shelf grips. (What liberal moron decided a thumb shelf made a handgun a "sporting" model, and worthy of importation?) The one in the picture was made in 1966, has wood grips, and to list the poor quality aspects will take a while. The barrel lower lugs were .020" too high, so the link took all the lockup pressure. The barrel bushing has .010" slop on the outside where it slips into the slide and .020" slop around the barrel! I welded up and remilled the lower lugs. The hammer and tang both had hand finished off kilter edges, very noticeable. I've worked them over too. It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. This gun, though it looks nice in the photo, looked like it was made in Pakistan when I took it apart! I've used it as my gunsmithing project, heh heh. I wish I could find one like yours. That's nice!
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Rex B
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Ribs (no sauce)
Ah, OK, that makes sense. I had heard that the ones with the rib were not as well made as the earlier non-ribbed versions.
By the way, I saw some grips on ebay that were wood grips, conventional straight sides, and were advertised as fitting the MicroMax and other small-frame Llamas. If I had one with those thumbrest plastic grips, the grips would be gone immediately if I had to wrap electrical tape around the frame!
I'd also be tempted to mill that rib off.
If you think the above Llama looks nice, you should see the one I bought at Cabelas. It's a new gun. took me several months to find another, but now I'll be buying them as they come along.
Ah, OK, that makes sense. I had heard that the ones with the rib were not as well made as the earlier non-ribbed versions.
By the way, I saw some grips on ebay that were wood grips, conventional straight sides, and were advertised as fitting the MicroMax and other small-frame Llamas. If I had one with those thumbrest plastic grips, the grips would be gone immediately if I had to wrap electrical tape around the frame!
I'd also be tempted to mill that rib off.
If you think the above Llama looks nice, you should see the one I bought at Cabelas. It's a new gun. took me several months to find another, but now I'll be buying them as they come along.
ak-kev
Member
Im sorry, I have to vote Colt Mustang too. Im still on my honeymoon with mine. Its great!!
denfoote
Member
It's the end of the world, I tell ya!!! The end of the world!!!
Gott im Himmel!!!
A Sig!!!
We're all doomed I tell ya!!!
We're all doomed!!!!
Gott im Himmel!!!
A Sig!!!
We're all doomed I tell ya!!!
We're all doomed!!!!
HisSoldier
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AK-Kev, On your honeymoon with yours? What state lets you marry your gun? What's this country coming to? (grin)
MICHAEL T
Member
I own a PPK/S (Interarms ) Interarms would be my choice not a S&W. Bersa CC 380 would be even a better choice See thread on BersaCC
mustang is nice I have one but cost as much as a a good 45
mustang is nice I have one but cost as much as a a good 45
Rex B
Member
HisSoldier wrote: "It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. "
I wonder if a Colt .380 bushing is close enough to work?
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85637983
I wonder if a Colt .380 bushing is close enough to work?
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85637983
MCgunner
Member
I really don't see a purpose in a steel .380. If I was going to get one, I guess it'd be a PPK except that the Bersa is what I'd go for. I'm not sure it's not an alloy frame, but I'd get it before I did a Walther. Walther's Ss don't have a good rep for reliability, but just the fact that it's a Walther, I'd get it to play 007.
When it comes to CARRY, my P11 is a 13 shot 9mm that weighs much less and is more compact and easier to tote, more reliable and just as accurate or probably MORE accurate. Why carry a .380 when I have a 9 that's a lot easier to tote and more effective?
Yeah, I'd get a Bersa. They have a good rep and they're nice lookin' guns. They also fit my budget better than your choices.
When it comes to CARRY, my P11 is a 13 shot 9mm that weighs much less and is more compact and easier to tote, more reliable and just as accurate or probably MORE accurate. Why carry a .380 when I have a 9 that's a lot easier to tote and more effective?
Yeah, I'd get a Bersa. They have a good rep and they're nice lookin' guns. They also fit my budget better than your choices.
KevininPa
Member
The .380s that I own and carry have the features that I want in a semi auto. DA/SA, exposed hammer, slim, compact design. There are 9mms that are the same size but their locked breeches usually make them wider. They are also almost always DAO, such as Kahrs and your P11 McGunner. And I just don't care for DAOs. Now I'm ready to upgrade to a 9 with a Springfield EMP, but unfortunately my wallet isn't and probably won't be until I find that "Magic" deal. As for steel frames, well I also just prefer steel. In pistols as small as a 232, I just don't find it that heavy to carry. So for me personally, the caliber was chosen by the pistols.
JP from Phoenix
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I'd love a little PPK those lil guns are super classy
HisSoldier
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"It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. "
Rex B said;
"I wonder if a Colt .380 bushing is close enough to work?"
I haven't tried that, I've got a series 80 Gov't .380, I'll see, thanks!
Rex B said;
"I wonder if a Colt .380 bushing is close enough to work?"
I haven't tried that, I've got a series 80 Gov't .380, I'll see, thanks!
Ohen Cepel
Member
I would say the SIG. However, just sold mine since it bit my hand A LOT!
I have the CZ and it's a close second if not first, especially if you buy the 9MAK version off the surplus market for $250 or so.
I have the CZ and it's a close second if not first, especially if you buy the 9MAK version off the surplus market for $250 or so.
MachIVshooter
Member
I have an old IIIa (ribless) that I inherited from my grandfather. It's actually a really nice little gun. I also have a 2004 Micro max and, while it lacks the refinement and is blowback, it shoots fine and will handle anything I've put into it (including handloaded 102 gr. Gold Sabres that clock 1067 FPS/avg.)
KevininPa
Member
MachIVshooter........
...........what powder are you using? I'm just getting ready to start reloading for .380s and I've already purchased 100gr. FMJ .355 rounds. I'd like to reach 1000FPS with them out of a Sig 232 or a CZ83. I already purchased Bullseye, but I'm afraid that the max load will fall short of the mark.
...........what powder are you using? I'm just getting ready to start reloading for .380s and I've already purchased 100gr. FMJ .355 rounds. I'd like to reach 1000FPS with them out of a Sig 232 or a CZ83. I already purchased Bullseye, but I'm afraid that the max load will fall short of the mark.
Mac Attack
Member
Colt 1908
or Colt Mustang Plus II
or Colt Mustang Plus II
Rex B
Member
Bushing?
HisSoldier, how'd that Colt bushing look?
This new Llama is a bit loose at the muzzle. I am going to swap my two guns' parts around to get the best combination on the carry gun. But if there's a tighter option I'd like to know about it.
HisSoldier, how'd that Colt bushing look?
This new Llama is a bit loose at the muzzle. I am going to swap my two guns' parts around to get the best combination on the carry gun. But if there's a tighter option I'd like to know about it.
HisSoldier
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Rex B,
The Colt Gov't .380 bushing was at least as loose as the Llama bushing was. I planned on making a new one anyway. But thanks, if it would have worked that would have saved lots of time. How loose is yours? I have another Llama .380 coming, left Mass. today, if it's bushing is loose too maybe I'll make three of them up. The cylindrical OD of mine is .561, the hole it fits into in the slide is .579 (.018 slop) the ID is .478, while the OD of the barrel is .470, (.008 slop) total slop value is therefore .026. The bushing in my Colt series 80 .45 is a Wilson combat bushing and I made it a slight push fit on the OD, there is no play at all, and that's what I'll aim for in the new bushings. The barrel has to have a bit, I'll look at the book and see what it's supposed to be for a 1911 and make it the same.
The Colt Gov't .380 bushing was at least as loose as the Llama bushing was. I planned on making a new one anyway. But thanks, if it would have worked that would have saved lots of time. How loose is yours? I have another Llama .380 coming, left Mass. today, if it's bushing is loose too maybe I'll make three of them up. The cylindrical OD of mine is .561, the hole it fits into in the slide is .579 (.018 slop) the ID is .478, while the OD of the barrel is .470, (.008 slop) total slop value is therefore .026. The bushing in my Colt series 80 .45 is a Wilson combat bushing and I made it a slight push fit on the OD, there is no play at all, and that's what I'll aim for in the new bushings. The barrel has to have a bit, I'll look at the book and see what it's supposed to be for a 1911 and make it the same.
Rex B
Member
HisSoldier - I measured both my guns.
Neither gun has the blue worn off where bushing slides on barrel tip
The first, made 1946, appears unfired
Barrel OK .471
Bushing ID.473
Bushing OD .563
Slide ID .583
Total .022"
2nd gun, 1942 lightly used
Barrel OD .460
Bushing ID .471
Bushing OD .569
Slide ID .569
TOTAL .064 !!
I may rummage through the parts boxes at Lee Gun Parts in search of another bushing.
Neither gun has the blue worn off where bushing slides on barrel tip
The first, made 1946, appears unfired
Barrel OK .471
Bushing ID.473
Bushing OD .563
Slide ID .583
Total .022"
2nd gun, 1942 lightly used
Barrel OD .460
Bushing ID .471
Bushing OD .569
Slide ID .569
TOTAL .064 !!
I may rummage through the parts boxes at Lee Gun Parts in search of another bushing.
HisSoldier
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Wow, I guess we hijacked this thread. That's outrageous tolerance differences between the three guns! Every one could use a custom fitted bushing. I guess that's why folks say Llama's are junk. I'm fond of the little 1911's though and enjoy amateur gunsmithing. If someone wanted to put a new gun on the market that would sell I don't think making this one over in stainless with good materials and tolerances would be be a loser, but it would cost as much as a Colt.
Nytelyte
Member
COOKIEKDJR said:
Mine's been flawless with ~500 rnds....
And that includes HPs (gold dots)- Status
