Which surplus pistol?

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Good thing I love pigs with lipstick.

To each their own but putting $400+ into a $200 surplus gun make no sense. Especially the guns that the OP listed. It is wasted money IMHO. If you look at the list the "upgrades" the OP wants to do will add very little to the shootabilty and value of the pistols. The value of surplus guns is that they are dependable durable cheap guns in the configuration you are buying them in. Once you start throwing money into them the value proposition is destroyed IMHO.

I am a fan of surplus gun and own a ton of them but 99% of them don't get dressed up. They are purchased in a particular condition and configuration and left in that condition. The one exception for me is this BHP....

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To each their own but putting $400+ into a $200 surplus gun make no sense. Especially the guns that the OP listed. It is wasted money IMHO. If you look at the list the "upgrades" the OP wants to do will add very little to the shootabilty and value of the pistols. The value of surplus guns is that they are dependable durable cheap guns in the configuration you are buying them in. Once you start throwing money into them the value proposition is destroyed IMHO.

I am a fan of surplus gun and own a ton of them but 99% of them don't get dressed up. They are purchased in a particular condition and configuration and left in that condition. The one exception for me is this BHP....

View attachment 800034

I can understand that, but people are people, and fixing up old to become new again happens so often. I have one rifle that I know a logical man would have steered clear of, but I have one time to go around this life, and I wanted an FR7 in 7.62x39, and I had a so-so Spanish 1916 type rifle.....so, I have one now. Would I do it again? No, but its a fun gun all the same, and unique as well. To each his own.

my fr7-3.jpg
 
Of the guns listed, the Star BM is currently the only one I'd say is a "deal". Everything else has been available awhile, and the prices are climbing out of bargain range.

If refinishing and working a gun over is your true desire, I'd suggest a different target: an Israeli imported CZ 75 or HP. With some patience, you will find one at/under $300. Those are usually rough cosmetically, but with a steel frame that's a non-issue (actually desirable, if you plan to refinish).
 
I did the surplus guns for a number of years -- and have come to the conclusion that while some of them are good enough, you can get new, quality US-made weapons in the same price range. I've seen S&Ws and Rugers, with warranties for under $300 in 9mm. and they seem to be good guns. Easy to get repaired if you ever need it, and they come with a warranty. I'd also consider looking around for a quality S&W revolver, which you can sometimes find in that same general price range.

I've had Makarovs, CZ-82s, a CZ-50, Star firestars and firestar + models, a Star Model B, a DaeWoo DP51, and a variety of others. I've shot a CZ-70, a CZ-52, a variety of WWII pisols. I think I like the DaeWoo the best -- and the CZ-82 next best
 
I did the surplus guns for a number of years -- and have come to the conclusion that while some of them are good enough, you can get new, quality US-made weapons in the same price range. I've seen S&Ws and Rugers, with warranties for under $300 in 9mm. and they seem to be good guns. Easy to get repaired if you ever need it, and they come with a warranty. I'd also consider looking around for a quality S&W revolver, which you can sometimes find in that same general price range.

I've had Makarovs, CZ-82s, a CZ-50, Star firestars and firestar + models, a Star Model B, a DaeWoo DP51, and a variety of others. I've shot a CZ-70, a CZ-52, a variety of WWII pisols. I think I like the DaeWoo the best -- and the CZ-82 next best

The Daewoo is very nicely finished, though that triple action gets some getting used to. :)
 
And, the Star is a movie star:

View attachment 799903

So is the Mak!

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Of the options given, I've only owned a Bulgy Mak. It's an utterly reliable, accurate little gun. At the time I got it, I was an engineering student, and the elegance of the design intrigued me. There are something like 7 parts that move in the firing cycle; there's very little that can go wrong. Also, to make everything simpler, nearly every part performs multiple functions: the trigger guard is the takedown lever, the mainspring is also the magazine release, the safety is also the decocker and the firing pin retainer, and so on.

When they were cheap, I'd have recommended them to anyone. Lately the prices have been climbing. I'm not sure I'd pay what they're going for now.

I almost added a Star BM to my recent order from Classic, but waited too long and the sale had ended. I decided to wait for the next one, since I really didn't need it. Still, I've been intrigued enough to keep an eye out for a deal...
 
So is the Mak!

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Of the options given, I've only owned a Bulgy Mak. It's an utterly reliable, accurate little gun. At the time I got it, I was an engineering student, and the elegance of the design intrigued me. There are something like 7 parts that move in the firing cycle; there's very little that can go wrong. Also, to make everything simpler, nearly every part performs multiple functions: the trigger guard is the takedown lever, the mainspring is also the magazine release, the safety is also the decocker and the firing pin retainer, and so on.

When they were cheap, I'd have recommended them to anyone. Lately the prices have been climbing. I'm not sure I'd pay what they're going for now.

I almost added a Star BM to my recent order from Classic, but waited too long and the sale had ended. I decided to wait for the next one, since I really didn't need it. Still, I've been intrigued enough to keep an eye out for a deal...

I would probably also have gotten a BM during the sale, but I'm watching Classic's website for when they get a batch of something else in.

I have to admit I find the Makarov ingenious as well, even the cleaning tool serves a multitude of functions.
 
Any ideas on what the next wave might be?

I wish I knew what was coming next, it would be great to catch whatever it is as soon as it comes in, and post here about it. I'm not sure how long it takes the importer to wrangle these deals so no idea if the next batch is months away.
 
I bought a Star BM, took it out and shot it, and promptly bought another one. I think they are a great choice for the money. I've seen them advertised for as little as $200.
 
what improvements would those be?
The lack of external plunger tube seems like one to me, and to a lesser extent the lack of grip safety. Otherwise the changes are just that, changes. I kind of appreciate the fact that I can put the gun on safe while uncocked; one further means of securing it while sitting in the box.

I kinda wish they had downsized the Super B instead of the B; the different takedown would be nicer.
 
those arent even real problems though.. the grip safety is a good grip safety, but also very easily deactivated on the 1911. i am not sure what problems exist with the plunger tube, but originally the colt didnt have them and used the same system as the star pistols. it really is just an afterthought, but if plunger tubes were that problematic it would be an easy modification.. now, if stars were more reliable than 1911s in 9mm, that'd interest me because i have almost no interest in 45acp

ill have to look up the star super B to see the difference
 
I am looking at surplus pistols in the $200-$300 range. Looking at JG sales and aimsurplus, what i find in this range that I would be most interested in is the Star BM, CZ70, Bulgarian Makarov, and P83 Wanad, Which of these do you think is the better all around pistol? Best value, most reliable, most accurate? Whichever one I choose will probably end up getting a new finish, new springs, upgrades sights, trigger work, and custom grips.

Does anyone know what sort of reliability and accuracy to expect out of any of them?
We've been inserting a lot of other guns into the mix.

Of the guns listed:
Star BM, CZ70, Bulgarian Makarov, and P83 Wanad
Which of these do you think is the better all around pistol?
That's a tossup based on condition. I'll lean towards the Star BM, as it's chambered in 9x19. The rest are blowback designs in smaller calibers. Bulgarian Makarov would be 2nd on that list.
Best value, most reliable, most accurate?
Best value, for sure, would be the Star BM. Not that long ago, you could get any of the other 3 listed, for at or under $200. During that same period, the cost of a surplus in 9x19 was going $250 and up.
The prices on the BM are as low as they will be, while the other guns have already begun to climb.

Reliability- hard to vote AGAINST a Makarov on that level, regardless of competition. I'd put it ahead of just about anything. Doesn't detract from the others, it's just that the Mak is perhaps the most reliable semiauto made.
The ONE thing I would mention, is that the Star pistols are known for breaking firing pins if you dry fire without a snap cap. Not CAN break, but WILL break. It's a known and common occurrence, that is easily avoided just by making sure you use a cap. Keep that in mind.

Assessing each gun on it's merits and desirability as a shooter:
  • Star BM is forged steel slide and frame, shoots 9x19 Parabellum (cheapest and most potent rd), has a magazine release by the trigger guard. Delayed blowback action, Is SA only. Parts are limited, but currently available with this wave of imports.
  • Mak- also forged steel gun. Bulgarian is probably least desired make of the breed. Parts are available. Mag release is in the heel of the gun. Shoots a more expensive, less potent rd (9x18). DA/SA with a decocker/safety on the slide. Blowback.
  • P-83- stamped steel, with not a lot of aesthetics involved. Mag release and safety are both in the same place as the Makarov. Probably the least attractive gun, nice wood grips would look out of place. I think they appeal primarily to fans of the 9x18 rd, as "another example of a gun in this chamber". Blowback.
  • CZ 70, I think the value is inflated due to the manufacturer (CZ). These used to be right at $100 all over the place. .32 acp gun, even less potent and more expensive than the 9x18. Blowback. Magazine release is by the trigger guard. Similar to the popular Walther PP/PPK, but not nearly as close as, say, a FEG (Hungarian maker).
Based on that, I'd say: find a Star BM in fair condition for under $200 (Classic recently ran a deal for $150, and I think currently has some at $180). This will be the cheapest shooting option, and the most similar to other, current makes of guns (it looks a lot like a 1911, between the Commander size and the Micro size). A good refinish and nice wood grips would dress it up and could fool casual people into thinking it's a lot more expensive gun than it is.

Of guns NOT listed, I'd say explore the FEG models. You can get a Hi Power clone, or a Walther PP clone, that will fool just about anyone at 10 ft. THOSE would be my choice for your stated desire
Whichever one I choose will probably end up getting a new finish, new springs, upgrades sights, trigger work, and custom grips.

Enjoy!
 
Best value, for sure, would be the Star BM. Not that long ago, you could get any of the other 3 listed, for at or under $200. During that same period, the cost of a surplus in 9x19 was going $250 and up.
The prices on the BM are as low as they will be, while the other guns have already begun to climb.

this looks conflicting, you say the star BM has the best value, but you say the prices on it will remain the same while the others are going up in price
 
animus_divinus said:
this looks conflicting, you say the star BM has the best value, but you say the prices on it will remain the same while the others are going up in price

Primarily, I think, because the BM remains relatively unknown in the U.S. All of the Stars I've seen, shot, or owned seemed like well-designed guns, and generally -- unlike some Spanish-made weapons -- were almost always well made. (I've had several starting with the WWII Model B, and the Star Firestars and Firstar Plus models. I missed all of the relatively good models in between. Except for the fact that I found the Firestar Plus models a little too blocky for my hand to be comfortable, they were light (alloy frames), high capacity/double-stack mags, and came with very good triggers -- which could be easily tuned to make them even better.. I've never heard of any problems with that model, except that you can no longer find factory magazines.
 
i do know the BM can use modified P225 mags which is good, however it seems triple K makes mags for both?
 
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lsudave said:
Best value, for sure, would be the Star BM. Not that long ago, you could get any of the other 3 listed, for at or under $200. During that same period, the cost of a surplus in 9x19 was going $250 and up.
The prices on the BM are as low as they will be, while the other guns have already begun to climb.


this looks conflicting, you say the star BM has the best value, but you say the prices on it will remain the same while the others are going up in price
No, that's not what I'm saying.

OTHER 9mm guns were going around $250-$300; the Star Model B and the B Super; the FEG 9HP, the Kareen Hi Power clone, things like that.
Around that same time, you could get a Bulgarian Mak for under $200, a P-83 for around $150, and a CZ 70 for $100.

Surplus runs in waves. If you get in early, you get a good deal. I bought my first BM from GunProDeals, it was in legit Very Good condition with 2 mags for $222, +$14.99 shipping. With cardboard box, cleaning rod and manual. That gun has an excellent matte blue finish with minimal wear.
The one I got from Classic, was listed as "Fair" condition for $150. I added an extra magazine for $20. Shipping was $20. So total (minus FFL) was $190. The first one I received was worn, probably less than 25% of the blue was still there. It was nowhere near as nice looking as the first one; we found a crack on the slide rail and sent it back for exchange. I got a very nice one in exchange, but I think that might have been due to having to RMA it. The one I did receive finally had some slight evidence of pitting, had been polished and reblued (at the Star factory after turn in, I suspect)... I'd say the blue is close to 100%, but the actual condition of the gun might be a little less than the other one.

Here they are,
VG condition ('79)
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and
Fair condition ('76)
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And just to be clear, the other sides match in condition.

Once this wave of Stars starts to dry up, the prices will go back up. I've heard people say the BM's were going for around $300 or more a few years ago. They are nicely made and reliable, and they fill a niche you can't find in new manufacture guns.
The size is in between a 1911 Commander, and a Kimber Micro 9 or Sig 938.

The closest thing I can find in size is a RIA Baby Rock, and that's in .380. And even then, if you go by MSRP, you can get 2 of these for the price of 1 RIA.
 
i do know the BM can use modified P225 mags which is good, however it seems triple K makes mags for both?
I think several places have original mags for $20. I'd go with those, instead of any of the other options. Just get them now, while they are still around.
 
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