Which would you carry between a 357, 5 shot snubby, or a 9mm single stack 7 round pistol

[Gen_Y_Ballistics]

Mind pointing me to where it is shown that 147s are bad for snub guns? Everything I've seen puts them roughly average with any other weight.

For 9mm subcompacts and .357 snubs, the issues are increased recoil, and risk of pass-through (in other words, failure to transmit shock to the target).

I want to do a full thread on this when I get the notes together, but here are a few points in that general direction for the time being.

Velocities with 147s in the very small guns are IIRC in the high 800s and low 900s. This is in the same area as .38+P LHPSWC loads from a snub. There are only a few factory loads of that type that will expand, and the .38s are soft lead. The 9mm 147s are jacketed, and they need even more velocity.

I am not a fan of 147s in general, because I was frequently getting pass-throughs with them even on bare gel, regardless of how fast they were driven. The best that can be hoped for with them is approximating a .38 Special 158 at about 1000 fps, which will expand but doesn't transmit shock like the 115s. The Zimmerman load, IIRC, was a 115 gr Prvi Partizan, and it was proven effective in that instance from a subcompact 9mm.

For the 158s in .357 snubs. This is what I used to carry, thinking that if a 125 was good, a 158 must be better. But that gun stung like !@#$%^, and the load would have done around 1000 fps, again very little shock to the target. Those loads also give about 2 feet of penetration, which begins to be a liability concern.

The 125s, and even the 110s, are better with snubs. Winchester makes a 110 load that I have seen some people disparage as "watered down," but it does IIRC around 1100 fps from a snub, with less recoil than other loads.

 

[JR24]

For 9mm subcompacts and .357 snubs, the issues are increased recoil, and risk of pass-through (in other words, failure to transmit shock to the target).

I want to do a full thread on this when I get the notes together, but here are a few points in that general direction for the time being.

Velocities with 147s in the very small guns are IIRC in the high 800s and low 900s. This is in the same area as .38+P LHPSWC loads from a snub. There are only a few factory loads of that type that will expand, and the .38s are soft lead. The 9mm 147s are jacketed, and they need even more velocity.

I am not a fan of 147s in general, because I was frequently getting pass-throughs with them even on bare gel, regardless of how fast they were driven. The best that can be hoped for with them is approximating a .38 Special 158 at about 1000 fps, which will expand but doesn't transmit shock like the 115s. The Zimmerman load, IIRC, was a 115 gr Prvi Partizan, and it was proven effective in that instance from a subcompact 9mm.

For the 158s in .357 snubs. This is what I used to carry, thinking that if a 125 was good, a 158 must be better. But that gun stung like !@#$%^, and the load would have done around 1000 fps, again very little shock to the target. Those loads also give about 2 feet of penetration, which begins to be a liability concern.

The 125s, and even the 110s, are better with snubs. Winchester makes a 110 load that I have seen some people disparage as "watered down," but it does IIRC around 1100 fps from a snub, with less recoil than other loads.

Interesting, thanks. Ive had good expansion even with my Glock 26 with 147 gr hst. Granted that was mostly waterjug tests.

Ill look forward to your thread in the future.

 

[SteadyD]

The 147 grain hst performed very well from a 3 inch barrel in the 9 mm ammo quest videos on YouTube. Perfect expansion and penetration. Additionally, the 147 grain hst has less snappy recoil than the 124 grain hst.

 

[SteadyD]

To answer the original question, I generally prefer a 5 or 6 shot snub nose revolver with 38 +p or very rarely, 357. I'm also considering a 6 shot 32 H&R magnum.

 

[Az-quailhunter]

As much as I love the good old .357, I would use the 9mm in your situation. .357 out of a snub is not very comfortable!

 

[will11]

To the original poster I choose single stack 9mm. Although personally I pocket carry a Kel-Tec P.32 or a Glock 26 inside the waist band. The nice thing about the P.32 is i can carry it in a small pocket holster in the lightest pair of shorts and t-shirt. It really comes down to what a person feels comfortable with.
Will

 

[george burns]

To answer the original question, I generally prefer a 5 or 6 shot snub nose revolver with 38 +p or very rarely, 357. I'm also considering a 6 shot 32 H&R magnum.

I am debating that also, as the extra bullet is worth the trade off which is negligable on paper. I like the versatilaty of the 32, and the more I read after 50 years of carrying and shooting, aside from the things I have seen, it has so much more to do with where you hit, than anything else.

 

[1MoreFord]

9mm without question. Carrying a small (or even normal size) .357 for self defense is macho BS for the vast majority of people. There are no major LEO departments or organizations that have used them in years because the average person cannot effectively use them. The FBI has run the full gamut and are now back to 9mm's. They started with .357's and abandoned them for the same reason.

 

[TN Outlaw]

I agree with the macho thing but i find it more with 45acp guys than 357. The ones that "shoot a 45 cuz they dont make a 46" and all that. Its funny to me.

I always read they abandoned 357 for higher round counts and faster reloads. Either way just about every Military/LEO have all came back to the 9mm. Easier to shoot/hit with, higher capacity, cheaper to feed.

Although the 357mag is the king of one shot stops, i agree with them and opt for the 9mm. I want a round powerful enough to stop a fight and as many rounds as i can comfortably carry. 9mm fits the bill and is cheap to practice with and has minimal recoil.

Im probably alone here but in this case i see every single extra round as a BIG deal. Its one more chance to save my childs life. It just has to be able to fit me comfy enough that ill always have it.

The single stack 9mm all the way. (357mag is one of my fav rounds of all time though)

 

[Zach S]

I hate to sound like a wimp, but I really don't like .357 snubs. And I absolutely hate the SW 340PD(?). Ouch.

My Kahr K9 is my small carry gun.

 

[chaim]

I hate to sound like a wimp, but I really don't like .357 snubs. And I absolutely hate the SW 340PD(?). Ouch.

My Kahr K9 is my small carry gun.

Nothing wimpy about that. The Taurus 605 I had years ago got sold because I hated shooting .357mag out of it, and my 2" Rossi 461 isn't much better. I also am not a fan of .38+P out of an ultralight revolver (like my 442), it is pretty uncomfortable and I can't imagine shooting magnums out of the even lighter (by 3oz) 340pd.

 

[JONWILL]

Of the two I would go with the 9mm compact.

Personally. I were only on my property I would go with a larger double stack 9mm. Consealabilty is not an issue. Unless your family has a problem with it. I like the CZ P-07 or P-09.

Carry in an outside the waistband holster. I have a Fobus that is perfect for me.

 

[agent89]

I used to be a revolver guy, citing the simplicity and reliability as the main factors. But in recent years as I bought and handled more of the polymer 9,s and 40,s I was just shooting them so much better than any snub I had. The compact 9 is absolutely a better choice today. The 43 is probably the perfect carry gun, although I have a 26 that rides well also with a cover shirt over it. I have a shield 40 that I am fond of also.

 

[ritepath]

Never could warm up my big bulky 642....so the answer is easy. Single stack 9mm Shield.

 

[Pyro]

I have had enough small caliber semiautomatic guns to learn to buy a revolver. I bought a Taurus 85 UL and a Barami hip grip and have never looked back.

 

[exbrit49]

I will take the .357 every time

 

[azrn]

sp 101 in 357 mag for me.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

My every day carry is a 4" M66 loaded with .38 spl with 158 g bullets at a little over 900 fps. Two moonclips for reloads. Being a revolver it will fire almost anything that fits in the chambers if need be.

I use a tuckable IWB holster from A.E. Nelson and sometimes a DeSantis thumb break scabbard.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I carry the nine's, the single stack LC9S or the LCR9mm. And I carry the Pico as a backup.

 

[SKILCZ]

This is just for around the home, not when travelling any distance, Basically for hanging out on your property or just at the pool? I have been carrying a PM9 for around the house the past 8 years, because it weighs very little and is reliable, and easy to hide in a pocket. But picked up a Taurus 357 and still can't get into carrying a Revolver again. Shootability wise I can shoot both accurately, it's really 5 powerful rounds vs 7 or 8 less powerful rounds
I also use a speed loader when carrying the snubby and 2 spare mags for the 9. "it weighs 16 ozs vs 24, that is really the determining factor, but if I have to let a 357 go, it will have a lot more stopping power considering decent shot placement. I carry 38+p and 5 more 357 in the speed loader..

All are good choices, but as you point out you can carry 2 spare mags for the 9 and reload quickly. There are some good 9 mm defensive loads out there these days, some of which are specifically designed for short barreled firearms like the PM9. You already carry the PM9 and are comfortable with it, so why change it? If you end up liking the revolver carry rig less, you may opt to carry less frequently, which is worse than carrying a less powerful gun all the time, IMO. Rule #1 is have a gun. That said, a snub nosed revolver is a great summer carry gun and fits well into cargo shorts, etc. You really can't go wrong with any of your choices.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I doubt in any real life encounters you will have to be reloading. Most will gun fights are over in a matter of seconds and close range. I personally doubt I could hit anything with a 357 snubby. I carry the LCR in 9mm, it is powerful, without all the noise, flash and brutal recoil. The Pico backup is so easy to carry anywhere, faster than reloading, and totally reliable.

 

[peacebutready]

Given those parameters it would be a 4" 357 loaded with hard cast 158 gr. SWC's loaded in 38 Spl. cases to +P+ levels and it's not normally carried around at home but it's usually close at hand.

Why SWC to +P+ levels and not some hollowpoint? I noticed CCI's 158gr hollowpoint is neutered for a .357 and may be as controllable as the +P+ SWC. Buffalo Bore makes both a hot .38 +P and a neutered .357 mag with hollow point bullets.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I will argue that 357 is Not the better round, especially in a snubby. The nine has come a heck of a long way and 9mm defense ammo is a great choice. At least the Military and the Police must think so. I shoot the 9mm LCR and it shoots on the mild side of heavy recoil, extremely manageable. Actually a fun gun to shoot. My Gosh, a 357?? No thanks. I will take the ballistics of the 9mm all day long and without the Harsh punishing recoil, the high Flash and the high noise. I will opt for better control. Even pocket guns are improving all the time with 380. I would not choose the LCP, just do not like that High Five Slap of recoil, I prefer the pocket guns that are rated at Plus P and actually shoot Plus P milder than the LCP shoots standard ammo.
I love the slim LC9S have had them since they first came out, but really eyeing the Kahr CM9.

Ps. For the home, I have a Mossberg 500 20 gauge with Pistol grip or tactical grip with a 18" barrel. Very easy to shoot, very fast and maneuverable. Nice light attachment.

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

 

[Confederate]

I think you're fine with the 9mm, but it boils down to what is easier on the hand and to carry.

Both calibers are exceptional, both are easy to carry and lightweight. If one makes you more confident, go with it. The 9mm is a good, flat pistol; the .357 is known for its exceptional stopping power. For a house gun, I love the Beretta 70S .22LR because of its sheer firepower and beauty. That it takes a small bullet doesn't matter one whit. I love the gun and have confidence in it.

So it's what you're comfortable with.

I'd stick with the 9mm based on everything you said. That you posted the question makes me wonder if you have the confidence in the 9mm. If you don't, by all means go to the .357 and become proficient with it. I could easily go with either.

 

[mavracer]

I personally doubt I could hit anything with a 357 snubby. I carry the LCR in 9mm, it is powerful, without all the noise, flash and brutal recoil.

really depends on what load you use in the 357, back when I had my M&P 340 I found the 125gr Remington Golden Saber to be sweet spot between flash, recoil and power I have serious doubt as to whether you could tell the difference between shooting it out of a LCR and any +p 124 load from your 9mm LCR.

Of course I can't imagine there being any difference on the business end as velocity from a snub with these loads will be nearly identical.
As to the OP's question I don't have a lightweight 357 snub anymore as I got a smoking deal on a large quantity of the Remington 158gr LSWCHP FBI load which I consider about as good as it gets from a snub and sold the aforementioned M&P 340 for nearly enough to pay for the LCR 38 and the 442 that replaced it. And the LCR and LC9 are the 2 I carry most and it just depends what pants I'm wearing the 9 is heavy enough to pull my gym shorts down.